BREAKING: DEMOCRATS PLOTTED TO BLAME TEA PARTY FOR SLAUGHTER!
Posted by Jim Hoft on Sunday, January 9, 2011, 11:08 AM
Don’t ever let a horrible slaughter at a supermarket go to waste.
A rescue helicopter lifts off as first responders evacuate victims from a “Congress on Your Corner” event in Tucson, Arizona, where U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) among others were shot and seriously wounded. (Reuters)
Democrats plotted to blame the tea party patriots for yesterday’s slaugher in Arizona.
A democratic operative admitted this to The Politico.
Of course, Politico buried it in their story.
One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did.
“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”
Another Democratic strategist said the similarity is that Tucson and Oklahoma City both “take place in a climate of bitter and virulent rhetoric against the government and Democrats.”
This Democrat said that the time had come to insist that Republicans stand up when, for example, a figure such as Fox News commentator Glenn Beck says something incendiary.
The shooter was a pro-Marxist, anti-flag, anti-Constitution, anti-religious crackpot.
He was hardly a tea partier.
So… Is this why DHS is going after a hate group that just happens to have Gadsden Flags ads on their website?… And, the media is trying to link the pro-Marxist lunatic to the tea party?
Related… Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings.
UPDATE: Democrats are using Giffords’ shooting for fundraising.
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Published May 17, 2012 at 1:26 pm - 151 Comments
b5blue commented:
The Democrats/Leftists (redundant, I know) have world’s flattest learning curve in use of their bucket ‘o blame.
http://reformaliberal.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/new-year-same-old-leftist-lame-blame-game/
It’s not even two years after Sparkman suicide and they haven’t learned their lesson. The Tea Party has (internet) connections and won’t forget.
Eric Dondero commented:
Gabrielle Gifford is Jewish and a staunch supporter of Israel. The shooter lists Mein Kampf as one of his top two favorite books.
Could it be anti-Semitism at work as his prime motive? We already know he’s a leftist against the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Similarly, McVeigh and Nichols opposed the First Persian Gulf War, and expressed sympathies with Saddam Hussein. But of course, that was all covered up after OKC, and the Islamic appearance John Doe II quickly forgotten about.
gorgo commented:
Not a shred of truth in the accusations but it will still be used to clamp down on talk radio and patriotic news outlets on the web. Luckily many Americans already learned the guy was far more left than right…not that it’ll stop the gov’t from trying anyway.
gorgo commented:
I’m still waiting to hear where the shooter got a gun or guns capable of injuring or killing so many people so rapidly.
Reaganite Republican commented:
Don’t let the truth get in the way of the MSM’s propaganda steamroller, they need this one BAD
Hallirus commented:
Goodness. People commenting here have the intellectual capacity of ants.
pagesail commented:
I am so sick and tired of Glenn Beck being described as “incendiary.”
Question commented:
Question: Is DHS pre-emptively surrendering to the DC area mail-bomber threats?
Recall, a note from the sender that accompanied the bomb package to Governor O’Malley contained a mocking reference to the phrase “report suspicious activity,” saying it was “total [expletive]“…
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2011/01/07/PH2011010704479.jpg
Driving from Annapolis to DC this morning, I noticed MDOT road signs– that for months have carried DHS suspicious activity TIPS phone number– were ALL disabled.
Is this just in the DC metro area? Or have DHS TIPS road signs been disabled elsewhere?
TBogg commented:
Hoft:
The shooter was a pro-Marxist, anti-flag, anti-Constitution, anti-religious crackpot.
He was hardly a tea partier.
Reality:
“After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”
Reality 1, Hoft 0
timwi commented:
Go look on Yahoo news at the headlined article about the intern saving her life. A bunch of liberals are posting making comments they intend to be attributed to conservatives. I wonder if this is going on elsewhere?
Rock commented:
As I said early on, The Chicago Way, the bedrock of Obama and gangs style politics swings into high gear.
First out of the gate, Linda Lopez Democrat blames Tea Party, next up Sheriff Clarence Dupnic blames Tea Party, coupled with internet postings by shooter are scrubbed. Lefty notions of shooter are dismissed, while questionable conservative views are pushed. A false accusation of being a Afghanistan Vet was even floated. Left wing media immediately suggest Tea Party values as the reason.
Is anyone troubled about the shooting accuracy of said shooter? A group of about 25 attacked by one shooter with (as being reported) one handgun, kills six, wounds eleven, and by reports sends some rounds through local windows, all without reloading, yea I know extended mag. and all but just the same, an untrained shooter with such a high percentage of hits seems unlikely.
Highlander commented:
Hallirus – you wouldn’t by any chance be a liberal elitist would you? I’ve read a lot of comments in a lot of comment sections, and what I’m reading here seems pretty rational to me, with maybe the exception of comments like “I’m still waiting to hear where the shooter got a gun or guns capable of injuring or killing so many people so rapidly….”
Now THAT’s the sort of thing an “intellectual ant” would say …
GrayRider commented:
Have you seen the shooter’s favorite video on his YouTube account titled: “America: Your Last Memory in a Terrorist Country”? It looks to be self produced. It’s hardly the work of a Tea Partier or Conservative. Here it is if you can stomach it:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw
Caitie Parker commented:
[TBoggs: "...Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a 'terrorist for killing the baby.'"]
Reality: “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html
Reality 10: TBoggs O
Jayne on the left coast commented:
I for one will not be toning down any rhetoric. I’m mad as hell and will be until we take our country back. This was a marxist,commie loving,flag burning Bible hating nut. Not even close to a Tea Party activist.
rbosque commented:
The left will continue to mindlessly blame Conservatives because apparently there are still the uber-stupid out there that think Olbermann, Shultz, and Couric know what they are talking about.
aprilnovember811 commented:
Have the Democrats (cough cough) CPUSA seen his facebook page, before it was taken down of course.
http://youtu.be/cPd2bJIcjTg
Donald Douglas commented:
Related and linked: ‘Rachel Maddow Crestfallen — Giffords Shooter ID’d as Crazed Conspiracy Theorist and Marx-Reading Progressive Atheist’.
aprilnovember811 commented:
Question,
My husband went through Annapolis and saw the same thing.
Joe commented:
TBogg, you thinking that reality = tea partiers compare women getting abortions to terrorists is evidence of the fact that you do not live in reality. The tea party is about fiscal conservatism and defending the constitution. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but until last week, your side controlled the presidency and both houses of congress. The tea party won in November. About all the congresswoman has done since the republicans took control of the house is vote against Pelosi for speaker, participate in the reading of the constitution, and propose that the house reduce its own wages. I’m not sure if you understand politics, or the real world generally, but those three things are squarely in line with the tea party.
Does it sound illogical that a tea partier would attempt to assassinate someone after the tea party gained control? Yes, it does. Why? Because it is.
shibumi commented:
The Oklahoma City bombing is the favorite target to pin on the “right wing.” However, if one does any extensive research into it, one will indeed find Middle Eastern ties that the government suppressed.
It didn’t fit their narrative.
This doesn’t either, so Palin will be to blame on this.
Chisum commented:
#15 January 9, 2011 at 11:46 am
Caitie Parker commented:
[TBoggs: "...Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a 'terrorist for killing the baby.'"]
Reality: “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html
Reality 10: TBoggs O
=============================================================
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
T.Bogg got DOGGED!
Back to your kennel, Boggie!
Tawny Jones commented:
In a nanosecond after the Tucson tragedy, the lamestream media & lefty blogs were wide-open with blame for Sarah & the Tea Party. Not necessarily a plot, just a Pavlovian pack- conditioned reflex. They hear the bell, they know what to do.
John commented:
“It certainly is,” Blitzer agreed. “But the question is, is there any evidence that the suspected shooter in this particular case was a ‘Wolf Blitzer’ fan, read ‘Wolf Blitzer’s’ website, was a member on Facebook, watched ‘my’ tweets, or anything like that?”
Wow, way to go with leaps of faith there CNN. The real question, is the MSM a bunch of _____ (fill in blank)
NeoKong commented:
Is there any depth too low for them to slither too….?
RB American commented:
Folks, tone it down a bit, this was the act of a truly sick individual who should have been under professional care. Please use your God given intelligence and compassion to stop the angry rhetoric, it only serves to encourage and enable the mentally ill on both sides.
Mad Hatter commented:
From the above story,
Another Democratic strategist said the similarity is that Tucson and Oklahoma City both “take place in a climate of bitter and virulent rhetoric against the government and Democrats.”
It sounds like the hack Sheriff of Pima County received the talking points yesterday.
Pima County AZ Sheriff Clarence Dupnik blamed the “prejudice and vitriol” in Arizona for the shooting today.
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2011/01/pima-county-az-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-blames-az-political-culture-for-shooting-video/
proof commented:
Using this shooting for political gain or fund raising is sick, opportunistic pandering. Anyone who would use a tragic event such as this for political gain should be ashamed of himself. Sadly, these people have no shame.
Joe commented:
“Is there any depth too low for them to slither too….?”
No. Their agenda has become nothing more than “It’s not a lie if you believe it.”
Premise: Tea Partiers are bitter bible clingers
Premise: The shooter was an atheist
Conclusion: The shooter was a Tea Partier
Premise: Someone who knew him well states that he was a liberal
Conclusion: He was a conservative
Rock commented:
#24 January 9, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Tawny Jones commented:
In a nanosecond after the Tucson tragedy, the lamestream media & lefty blogs
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Just like any well trained hound the left has been trained Dog Whisper style by the cadre at Ivy League indoctrination centers of the Socialist Party. See spot run, good boy.
Edouard commented:
If any of you reading are of the Left, please understand something:
In the last 24 hours, YOU HAVE LOST YOUR MINDS.
If you try, in your fevered & unsound brains, to hold the Tea Party or Palin even remotely responsible for yesterday’s atrocity…
… then you must hold your own president responsible whenever anyone in this country brings a gun to a knife fight and shoots someone. PERIOD. Exact same logic would have to be at work.
Let me repeat, leftists: YOU HAVE LOST YOUR MINDS.
Rock commented:
#27 January 9, 2011 at 12:04 pm
RB American commented:
Folks, tone it down a bit,
………………………………………………
RB when the Obama White House and its Chicago Way mentality, dials back the B/S that oozes from the inner circle, I might consider doing the same, but for now I’m well past turning the other cheek.
martha commented:
I’m not surprised that the Dems decided to blame us Tea Partiers. Did’nt they do the same thing when they had the Obamacare vote? They blamed Tea Partiers for spitting on a Congressman and using the “N” word, when countless videos showed it never happened.
The Media were getting their talking points together before the Congress even got into the bldg.
What we need to do is get the truth out
Anyone who listens to Beck knows that he is non-violent. I ca’nt wait to hear his take on this tommorrow morning.
How come they left out Rush? Was that an oversight?
Rock commented:
#35 January 9, 2011 at 12:23 pm
martha commented:
I’m not surprised that the Dems decided to blame us Tea Partiers.
………………………………………………………………………………………….
Well its pretty clear who Obama and gang fear, I think the only reason the Tea Party has not been attack violently in the streets is Obama is unsure of the backlash such an event might trigger.
Highlander commented:
#11 January 9, 2011 at 11:42 am
timwi – I’ve seen a lot of this sort of thing lately. I’m of the opinion that these are organized efforts on the part of certain political organizations, both left and right, to smear and discredit anyone whose comments don’t reflect a particular agenda. In my opinion, the validity of the entire “comment” portion of the blogosphere is being corrupted, and will gradually become irrelevant, as the vast number of these type of comments increases. The root of the problem lies in the fact that so many blogs allow people to comment anonymously. As long as people are free to stop by a blog and drop a steamer with no fear of accountability, this problem is only going to get worse. If blog owners and administrators continue to allow the comment sections of our blogs to be filled with manufactured comments of questionable origin, the entire medium will eventually be rendered useless, or worse.
There have been accusations that the Gifford shooter may have been influenced by comment threads he was reading on Kos. While I’m all for free speech, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me to see our government launch an all-out assault on violent or hate-filled rhetoric on the blogosphere. If that were to happen, I could easily see how blog owners could eventually be held responsible for the comments their readers are posting to some degree.
I don’t know what the solution is, but it’s clear that we have a problem. I would encourage blog owners and administrators to give serious thought to this issue, and begin hashing out some solutions before the medium is rendered completely irrelevant, or someone in the government decides to solve the problem for us….
Mad Hatter commented:
I can’t believe I’m saying this but Howard Kurtz is being a voice of reason. I guess some people on the left believe in persona responsibility.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-08/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-dont-blame-sarah-palin/
I wonder how long it will be until the left throws him off the cliff.
tdo commented:
Sounds like the kid is a liberal from what his classmates are saying.
Does anyone think there will be any retractions coming from Sen. Lopez, the sheriff or anyone else on the left?
Weren’t John Hinckley and Squeeky Fromm just crazies?
dave commented:
why doesnt anyone mention that democrat ( i forgot his name) who ran for robert byrds seat in w.v. when he used a shotgun to shoot a whole in the cap and trade bill .why are dem. allowed to get away with this and not one news mentions it .what a double standard. republicans wake up and dont let the media do this to us
raybojabo commented:
Does anyone else find it strange that this guy waited for Judge Roll to show up before he made his move?
http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/
Cuba_feh commented:
Looks like Chris Matthews and Mark Penn got their OK City event for Obama/dems http://tinyurl.com/2e578ut
Marsh commented:
That politico article totally contradicts itself from one sentence to the next. They say the people at that website weren’t into Jew-bashing, and then say they hate Jews.
Huh?
jh17 commented:
So, everyone on the right totally dismisses the possibility that hate-filled rhetoric could have been one trigger for this tragedy? With all due respect, hate rhetoric has been going on in politics forever – it just hasn’t been on 24/7 – and available to everyone. Will our House Speaker shed a tear? Will anyone dial back the rhetoric – left and right? Does everyone believe that our freedom of speach means freedom of “hate speech.” My colledge freshman American History professor taught us otherwise. I’m so glad I took his teaching to heart.
Rock commented:
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik right out of the gate became a political hack, rather than the Law Enforcement leader he was hired to be, with his unfounded accusation against the Tea Party and others on the Right. Anyone of the opinion that he may have acted foolishly, and is there a beer summit in the near future. Not by Obama standards, business as usual.
Any who suspect law enforcement will help protect the Constitution are in for a sad awakening. This man like many sheriff’s, is a political animal first and a defender of our rights only out of necessity.
vote for pedro commented:
jh17, who decides what is “hate speech?” Do you just know it when you hear it? Can it be applied equally to everyone in society, or are there protected classes, e.g., can’t gays call each other f_gs, but bring charges if called a f_ggot by a heterosexual? Did you professor cover that in class? And let me go out on a limb, and bet he/she wrote the text book for the class.
gorgo commented:
RB American commented:
“Folks, tone it down a bit,”
No.
“this was the act of a truly sick individual who should have been under professional care.”
Maybe. All leftists should be, though, so you’re not really saying much.
“Please use your God given intelligence and compassion to stop the angry rhetoric, it only serves to encourage and enable the mentally ill on both sides.”
So which side’s rhetoric encouraged and enabled Loughner (a leftist) to make Giffords (another leftist) his primary target, and kill several innocents while he was there? Palin’s, rhetoric, right? Limbaugh’s? Beck’s?
vote for pedro commented:
can’t=can
Rock commented:
#44 January 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm
jh17 commented:
So, everyone on the right totally dismisses the possibility that hate-filled rhetoric could have been one trigger for this tragedy?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Well it would seem you missed the point we understand that hate speech may have been a factor, but are unwillingly to blindly accept the Lefts twisting of the facts, that it was the speech from the Right that unhinged this young man. If you are suggesting that the people only believe what Government tells you, then you have missed the Lefts antics of the 60′s and 70′s, and now suggest what they found God, and now their form of Government is guilt free. Not even.
gus commented:
Yes TBOGG, this killing of a DEMOCRAT was about PRO-LIFE.
tdo commented:
Incidentally,
If he is found to be a liberal, shouldn’t we all blame Francis Piven for this?
gorgo commented:
jh17 commented:
“So, everyone on the right totally dismisses the possibility that hate-filled LEFTIST rhetoric could have been one trigger for this tragedy?”
Not at all; I think that’s exactly what happened. A psychotic anarcho-leftist was pushed over the edge by all the venom he was drinking in…straight from the venom sacs of…who, Rush? No. From today’s infantile, constantly angry to the point of violence LEFT.
The modern Left: It’s not merely wrong. It’s evil.
Glad we can agree on sumthin’, JH!
donh commented:
If the left organizing a publicity campaign to leverage an assasination into an attack on the tea party, is it all that hard to believe a few Stalinist leaders at the top PLANNED this assasinationin addition to the response ?. The moral depravity of waging such an evil PR campain is 9 tenths possession of the laws of Satan . It only takes one more small step down to reach the lowest depths of the devil’s lair.
vote for pedro commented:
We need a Mitch Dworkin No Labels intervention so we can hit that sweet spot in the middle(ph 7)!
Gravelyvoice Jim commented:
If they want to pin it on something, how about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDsTvKvV_hg
Did this turn out to be the nut’s instruction manual?
gus commented:
Let’s look at this logically. Shall we?
LIBTARD NUT JOB WHO BURNED FLAG and love the COMMIE MANIFEST. Was driven to shoot a DEMOCRAT CONGRESSWOMEN whom he previously supported…because of GLENN BECK and SARAH PALIN……talking.
Libtards, could you tell me which parts of this losers life has ANYTHING to do with Conservatism??
gus commented:
Seriously though. We really don’t know why ANOTHER LIBERAL has GONE WILD.
Liberals do this sort of thing every so often.
1_Eagle commented:
The LSM and rogue Dem operatives are putting Sarah Palins and other Conservatives lives in dire peril with this entirely fabricated, planned and orchestrated, deliberate exploitation of a senseless act by a deranged idiot. It is bad enough these people fabricate global warming and other hoaxes (ref: “black church burning hoax” during Clinton administration) but to put Conservatives lives at risk especially Sarah Palin and Tea Party members by repeating incendiary and baseless claims they are somehow responsible for the shooting is a crime.
They show not only how desperate they are but also how they are bitterly clinging to their hammers and sickles hell bent on subjugating a free market Constitutional Republic under a new Communist State, even if they must lie slander and distort. Remember the lone reporter who claimed the crowd at a McCain/Palin rally shouted “kill them” but Secret Service could not find one single person or recordings to substantiate?
Truth, honesty, journalistic professionalism, the law and the US Constitution are considered inconveniences needing to be circumvented along the shining path to the new “workers paradise”
This is the current reality of politics as we find it today. We must say “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!” Our work is cut out for us, and the way ahead to preserve and protect the greatest Republic on planet Earth is frought with perils. We will have to act as our Founders did, sacrificing our wealth and putting our lives in jeopardy to secure our Liberty.
We do not take this intentional harm, this painful wound they inflict us with lightly, but we must channel our anger to lead us to give more generously to Conservative groups and programs as never before, and create even more groups and projects to get the job done. How many of you know that in Colorado the Democrats have no less than six different programs set up years ago to indoctrinate college age voters and get them to the polls? They intend to export this “package” of programs all around the country(source: DNC convention audio posted on DNC convention website a few years ago). We have a lot of work to do. Let’s get busy.
1_Eagle on twitter
Slappy commented:
gus (#56): “Let’s look at this logically. Shall we?
LIBTARD NUT JOB WHO BURNED FLAG and love the COMMIE MANIFEST. Was driven to shoot a DEMOCRAT CONGRESSWOMEN whom he previously supported…because of GLENN BECK and SARAH PALIN……talking.
Libtards, could you tell me which parts of this losers life has ANYTHING to do with Conservatism??”
In addition, according to Chris Roads, Pima County’s registrar of voters, Loughner didn’t even vote in the mid-term elections this past November (see http://tinyurl.com/293zuan). Doesn’t quite sound like the actions of a committed Tea Partier, does it?
gus commented:
The LIBTARD HEATED RHETORIC BLAMING SARAH PALIN just may get people killed.
Powder is dry.
Mad Hatter commented:
Geeeeeeeeeee, I wonder if the Alinsky media is going to report this story.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/police-arrest-21-year-old-‘jihadist’-in-pennsylvania/
Ohhhhhh that’s right, they can’t blame talk radio, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin or the Tea Party for the Johnny Jihad.
Christinewjc commented:
Recall that Glenn Beck warned that the progressives would start a fight to try and get conservatives, independents, TEA Party Patriots, Sarah Palin supporters (etc.) angry enough to cause people to resort to violence? Could the use of this terribly tragic event be the spark to try and do that?
Patriots, don’t let them change you! Don’t let them turn your (our) focus away from the plans we have to peacefully, and through voting and legal ways, bring our country back from the clutches of Soros, Obama & cohorts!
Remember to utilize the 4 E’s!
Enlightenment
Education
Empowerment
Entreprenuership
mcc commented:
Legal Insurrection lays out the facts:
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/two-sicknesses-on-display-in-arizona.html
And sums it up nicely. *Highly recommended* – and sorry if someone else has linked it, no time to read through all the threads.
Sandy commented:
Obama had nothing to do with with this what happened to Giffords. However, if he continues to divide this nation with his hostile rhetoric then he will be responsible for stoking future violence. The Dems have hit a new low when they try to blame the Tea Party for this tragedy. With the economy in freefall most Americans will consider this another distraction from Obama’s promise to focus like a lazer beam on Jobs Jobs Jobs.
I’m beginning to feel sorry for Dems because they are so pathetic.
Mad Hatter commented:
Here’s another story the Alinsky media won’t want you to know about.
From (of all sources) the Washington Post.
John. M. Roll, the federal judge killed Saturday in the Tucson shooting that critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), has been at the center of the state’s complicated political battle over immigration.
In February 2009, Roll received hundreds of threats after he allowed a lawsuit filed by illegal immigrants against a rancher to go forward. “They cursed him out, threatened to kill his family, said they’d come and take care of him. They really wanted him dead,” a law enforcement official told The Washington Post in May 2009.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/slain-federal-judge-john-roll.html
Are they going to blame Palin, Beck, Talk Radio and the Tea Party for this?
Bunni commented:
Too bad they didn’t take the time to scrub and doctor up his youtube site and MySpace page (which is closed down) The YT site is still up, and lists all the favorite books of a deranged marxist commie.
These democRAT operatives are despicable. But the damage is done. This will be used to further silence us, take away our freedoms, and blame the right and the “tea party”.
Mad Hatter commented:
It makes me wonder who the real target was.
Lou Skannen commented:
The proper response to liberal finger-pointing is not to go on the defensive, “He is not! He believes thus and so! You guys are hypocritical!,” etc. You buy into their little game. The proper response is, “Bwa-hahahahaha!!! You guys crack me up!”
mcc commented:
How does this even enter their minds…
“Interestingly, Think Progress posted this video on its YouTube channel back in November, of Democratic pollster (and former Hillary Clinton campaign manager) Mark Penn arguing that Obama needed “another Oklahoma City” in order to reconnect with the people:”
(from Legal Insurrection link)
AmericanCitizen commented:
I feel sorry for just about all of you. This was not a democratic Representative or a republican Judge that was shot. It was 18 of our fellow citizens including a 9 year old girl, who, as far as I know, did not vote for anyone in the last election. Just like all of the children who were deprived of their lives by another person who believed in 2nd amendment remedies at the Miria Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
This government is “evil” says one of the people here. WTF. We all had to endure the same junk talk during President Bush’s terms in offices. Back then all of the servants of this country working for the administration were agents of evil according to the extreme left when in fact both administrations were/are “American” politicians serving their country.
President Abraham Lincoln once told a group of people who were pissed off at the way he was conducting the Civil War, he said that “if they did not agree with him to vote him out in the next election.” Take his advice and do the same thing with President Obama and vote him out. That is were the real power is in our great country. US
All of you need to really turn it down a notch. We are all American’s including the dead children. What our political views are are just that, political views and nothing more not worth killing each other over.
Attack my opinions if you must but know that I will not be back here to read them. Too much hate for my fellow Americas.
avery commented:
This all took place right under the nose of Sheriff Clarence Dupnik,if he was doing his job it could have a diff. out come.
bg commented:
++
ht TRBO
Five Criminal Charges Filed Against Jared Lee Loughner
==
bg commented:
++
AmericanCitizen #73
re: your rant, justified or not, is way out of line, you yourself are incting
prejdice against all GP posters, and i’m willing to bet you narely read any
of them..
==
SueG52 commented:
Congresswoman Giffords is not a straight party loyalist so the dems want rid of her. For example: She did vote for Obamacare but she supports Arizona’s 1070 bill for the state to defend itself. The dems want people in their party on their side on every issue. So, in the eyes of the dems, Congresswoman Giffords became expendable. The dems have been trying to goad “We the People” into violently attacking them since Obama’s been in the White House and that hasn’t happened so the dems decided to create an incident where they would eliminate someone that wasn’t as true blue to them as they would like and then say the Tea Party did it in an attempt to get rid of the Tea Party. In this manner, they kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
bg commented:
++
AmericanCitizen #73
ps: if that’s truly case, then i fully expect you
will not be watching MSNBC any time soon..
==
bg commented:
++
1_Eagle #59
excellent, lets get to work..
[not nit picking & parsing every crossed t & dotted i through this enormous
siege upon American values via allowing our enemies to lay claim to them..]
==
Rock commented:
#
#73 January 9, 2011 at 2:55 pm
AmericanCitizen commented:
Attack my opinions if you must but know that I will not be back here to read them. Too much hate FOR my fellow Americas.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
I’m sure he meant >>> Too much hate FROM my fellow Americas. You think? Oh well, hope he feels better now he has that off his chest.
Dora commented:
Arizona State Senator Linda Lopez blames the TEA PARTY for the murders.Why is that people have to blame innocent people like the TEA PARTY that have no control over other people.The fact of the matter there are a lot of CRAZY people in this world.They come in all shapes and sizes and have different political back ground and views.Quit trying to pass the buck and blame others for the actions of the mentally challenged.Statements like this that the TEA PARTY are responsible, make me think your a die hard republican or die hard democrat.We will never get nothing done when we have so many people that are die hards.I vote on who I think is going to do the right thing for AMERICANS,not their party’s.The killer blaming politicians,and politicians blaming others sounds like they both are mentally challenged,they have something in common they have to BLAME someone. kinda scary.
HarryT commented:
Let the Dems continue on this path…they are only putting the nails in the coffin of their demise. Americans know who they are and they know who drives these lunatic leftits to kill.
Me thinks we are seeing the complete and unhinged self-destruction of the left in this country.
My fear is that they will all soon turn to violence, thus plunging us into civil war once again…
POT KILLS commented:
Democrat Communists are sick, evil, racist, KKK nazis. Socialism is a mental disease at best.
Rock commented:
Along with the tragic death of a nine year old girl and others, the loss of a real Government of the People, has been exposed by the political the filth and greed that now infects our Government. Power and wealth outweigh loyalty and love of Country. Everything that has transpired since yesterday exposes the maneuvering those who have power will exercise keep it. Shameful, disgusting fall so short of the contempt I hold for those in D.C.
This forum as others allows the people to express the anger they have for Government that refuses to listen. Of course many would like to deny that freedom from those who cherish a love for a Nation unique in its dreams.
POT KILLS commented:
Yeah, I’ll take rhetoric over violence every time.
Dora commented:
I’m so sick of Democrats and republicans blaming each other for nothing getting done.Stop blaming other for the mentally challenged decisions both party’s are guilty of making .Your no more to blame for voicing my opinion than I am yours.If we didn’t have party’s a lot more would be getting done and nobody to blame but the one’s making the decisions. ITS WE THE PEOPLE ! NOT WE THE PARTY”S GROW UP STOP BLAMING OTHERS.
AuntieMadder commented:
#44 January 9, 2011 at 1:14 pm
jh17 commented:
“So, everyone on the right totally dismisses the possibility that hate-filled rhetoric could have been one trigger for this tragedy? With all due respect, hate rhetoric has been going on in politics forever – it just hasn’t been on 24/7 – and available to everyone. Will our House Speaker shed a tear? Will anyone dial back the rhetoric – left and right? Does everyone believe that our freedom of speach means freedom of “hate speech.” My colledge freshman American History professor taught us otherwise. I’m so glad I took his teaching to heart.”
Your words are not responsible for my actions and vice versa.
Any American History teacher who teaches that freedom of speech should be suppressed should be canned.
AuntieMadder commented:
Dora #89: I like it better when they get nothing done because what they call “getting things done” I call “spending a bunch of money.”
donh commented:
We can see the democratic party is going down. Unfortunately it is going down like an abusive husband who shoots his wife and children after she leaves the house. Bringing down the FDR legacy of american communism will scorch the earth, but we have to do it to be free. The time has come where we must choose freedom or slavery and be willing to share in the sacrifices of our finest heros. America is worth fighting for.
MamaGriz68 commented:
I was saddened when I realized that my first thought after hearing about this tragedy was that the shooter was probably some crazy liberal, and conservatives will be blamed for it. Everything has to be used for political advantage under this president. And if I hear one more lefty radio personality say it’s Sarah Palin’s fault and that the violent rhetoric needs to stop, I will puke. Notice I didn’t say I would go out and start shooting people?
Chisum commented:
I found more great liberal quotes:
Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.): “Republicans want you to die quickly.”
Pres. Barack Obama: It’s tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers, unless the hostage gets harmed…The hostage was the American people.”
Sen. Robert Menendez (D-NJ): “Do you allow yourself to be held hostage and get something done for the sake of getting something done, when in fact it might be perverse in its ultimate results? It’s almost like the question of do you negotiate with terrorists.”
They aren’t inflammatory, right?
Taqiyyotomist commented:
#21 JOE
DAMN THAT WAS A SMACKDOWN!
“I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but until last week, your side controlled the presidency and both houses of congress. The tea party won in November. About all the congresswoman has done since the republicans took control of the house is vote against Pelosi for speaker, participate in the reading of the constitution, and propose that the house reduce its own wages. I’m not sure if you understand politics, or the real world generally, but those three things are squarely in line with the tea party.”
—-
THE CONGRESSWOMAN WAS MORE IN LINE WITH THE TEA PARTY THAN THE ENTIRE EFFING LEFTWING IN AMERICA, INCLUDING THE LEFTIST MURDERER.
Twisted Sister commented:
I see some here trying to pin antiSemitism on the shooter. The problem is that as far as I can see – and if someone can provide evidence to the contrary, please do – the shooter in all his ramblings said nothing about:
Jews
women
Sarah Palin
Republicans
Democrats
the TEA Party
So the arguments that he supported or hated any of the list above is rather weak. Additionally, the more we learn from his former classmates and people who knew him, he appeared to have mostly lost his grasp on reality. Sure, he planned to kill the Congresswoman who was speaking 5 minutes away from his house, but that looks like it was a matter of convenience more than anything else. In other words, now he had the vehicle sitting right in his neighborhood in which he could make his grand statement to the world – whatever that statement was supposed to mean.
jh17 commented:
Hi vote for pedro – no, actually my professor used a text entitled “American Democracy,” and it contains the first copy of our Constitution I ever owned – I still have it. He was a tall, African American ex-marine with a Ph.d. in political science. He made each of us call out a “fighting word,” that he then put on the chalk board. Even the “N” word. Gave pause to think about our freedom of speech, guaranteed by by the first amendment – we CAN say almost anything. The point is SHOULD we? Ironic that Congresswoman Giffords was the House member who read the first amendment aloud on the first day of the 112th Congress.
The liberal and conservative media are making a heyday of this tragedy, making it only more tragic.
Taqiyyotomist commented:
The more I see, including Jim’s last update (Democrats using Gifford’s shooting for FUNDRAISING), the more I am inclined to believe that they did this a la Reichstag.
I hope someone in our government, or some renegade in the State-run Media, actually investigates this fully…but my hopes are slim to none.
This woman was killed for being a blue-dog, I am almost certain, and by the Left, using this insane murderer as a tool — and mostly because of the outcome, but partly because I know what Progressives are capable of.
You can’t let a good crisis go to waste — as Rahm Emmanuel said. Even if you have to cause the crisis. Deepwater Horizon comes to mind. Repeatedly. As does the Reichstag Fire. This is who these people are, this is their M.O., for the last hundred years they have proven it.
I want to say, “well, we shall see, when it all comes out…..” but, given history, and the history of progressives, we probably won’t. At least not in this life.
Taqiyyotomist commented:
(almost killed, I mean. Sorry, Mrs. Giffords and family.)
Taqiyyotomist commented:
Auntie Madder
“Any American History teacher who teaches that freedom of speech should be suppressed should be CANED.”
Fixed that for ya.
AuntieMadder commented:
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/01/09/no-way-start-year-again
With Republicans now in the majority, they planned to devote the first days of the 112th Congress to repealing the controversial health care reform law. The final vote was slated for Wednesday. But now Majority Leader Eric Cantor is yanking that legislation off the floor “so that we can take whatever actions may be necessary in light of today’s tragedy.”
This bothers me. Does he really mean they’re going to spend the week writing speech-limiting legislation?
AuntieMadder commented:
Taqiyyotomist, you’re gonna’ get us in trouble.
AuntieMadder commented:
jh17 commented:
“Hi vote for pedro – no, actually my professor used a text entitled “American Democracy,”…”
By “text,” do you mean “text book?” Either way, I can see right away that you were miseducated in American history because the US is NOT a democracy and never was.
Here we go again.
The US is not a democracy. The Founding Fathers of America rejected democracy in favor of a republic form of government.
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” – Thomas Jefferson
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” – Thomas Jefferson
“We are now forming a Republican form of government. Real Liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy, or some other form of dictatorship.” – Alexander Hamilton
Dr James McHenry: “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
Benjamin Franklin: “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Democracy v Republic: Founding Fathers Speak Out
http://snooperreport.com/tocb/2008/12/1/democracy-v-republic-founding-fathers-speak-out.html
Republic v. Democracy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1274628/posts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Founding Fathers Rejected Democracy
by Dr. Harold Pease
The Founding Fathers universally rejected democracy and hoped that posterity would never turn the United States into one. The word they used was “Republic,” which is not synonymous with “Democracy.” The word “Democracy” is not in the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. Even the Pledge of Allegiance is “to the Republic for which it stands.”
(snip)
So why did they reject Democracy? Because it is inherently flawed with the “share the wealth” philosophy, which only works as long as there is someone else’s money to share. Those receiving are quite pleased with getting something for nothing. But those forced to give are denied the right to spend the benefits of their own labor in their own self-interest, which creates jobs no matter how the money is spent. They also lose a portion of their incentive to produce.
Read the rest here: http://www.libertyunderfire.org/2010/06/the-founding-fathers-rejected-democracy/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are We a Republic or a Democracy?
by Walter Williams
In recognition that it’s Congress that poses the greatest threat to our liberties, the framers used negative phrases against Congress throughout the Constitution such as: shall not abridge, infringe, deny, disparage, and shall not be violated, nor be denied. In a republican form of government, there is rule of law. All citizens, including government officials, are accountable to the same laws. Government power is limited and decentralized through a system of checks and balances. Government intervenes in civil society to protect its citizens against force and fraud but does not intervene in the cases of peaceable, voluntary exchange.
Contrast the framers’ vision of a republic with that of a democracy. In a democracy, the majority rules either directly or through its elected representatives. As in a monarchy, the law is whatever the government determines it to be. Laws do not represent reason. They represent power. The restraint is upon the individual instead of government. Unlike that envisioned under a republican form of government, rights are seen as privileges and permissions that are granted by government and can be rescinded by government.
How about a few quotations demonstrating the disdain our founders held for democracy? James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 10: In a pure democracy, “there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.” At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, ” … that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.”
John Adams said, “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.” In a word or two, the founders knew that a democracy would lead to the same kind of tyranny the colonies suffered under King George III.
The rest is here: http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/index.php?news=4080
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why is this important?
“Democracy is the road to socialism.” – Karl Marx
We Social-Democrats always stand for democracy, not “in the name of capitalism, ” but in the name of clearing the path for our movement, which clearing is impossible without the development of capitalism. – Lenin, Letter to Inessa Armand (1916)
“Social-Democracy, however, wants, on the contrary, to develop the class struggle of the proletariat to the point where the latter will take the leading part in the popular Russian revolution, i.e., will lead this revolution to a the democratic-dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry. ” – Lenin, Two Tactics of Social Democracy (1905)
From Chapter 3 of The Unseen Hand by A. Ralph Epperson:
“It is generally conceded that even a monarchy or a dictatorship is an oligarchy, or a government run by a small, ruling minority.”
“Such is also the case with a democracy, for this form of government is traditionally controlled at the top by a small ruling oligarchy. The people in a democracy are conditioned to believe that they are indeed the decision-making power of government, but in truth there is almost always a small circle at the top making the decisions for the entirety.”
——————————————————————————–
“That’s the bitter truth, and it must be looked straight in the face. This barrier to the expansion and development of the American socialist movement will not be overcome, and even a regroupment of the woefully limited forces of those who at present consider themselves socialists will yield but little fruit, unless and until we find a way to break down this misunderstanding and prejudice against socialism, and convince at least the more advanced American workers that we socialists are the most aggressive and consistent advocates of democracy in all fields and that, in fact, we are completely devoted to the idea that socialism cannot be realised otherwise than by democracy.
The socialist movement in America will not advance again significantly until it regains the initiative and takes the offensive against capitalism and all its agents in the labour movement precisely on the issue of democracy. What is needed is not a propaganda device or trick, but a formulation of the issue as it really stands; and, indeed, as it has always stood with real socialists ever since the modern movement was first proclaimed 109 years ago. For this counteroffensive against bourgeois propaganda we do not need to look for new formulations. Our task, as socialists living and fighting in this day and hour, is simply to restate what socialism and democracy meant to the founders of our movement, and to all the authentic disciples who followed them; to bring their formulations up to date and apply them to present conditions in the United States.” James P. Cannon, SWP’s West Coast Vacation School, September 1, 1957
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And now you know the facts.
Taqiyyotomist commented:
“And now you know the facts.”
Alas, only if the horse drinks the water you led him to.
Which is doubtful, in the extreme.
tommy mc donnell commented:
for all you liberals that are posting here. if you can remember the oklahoma city bombing, at first it was thought that it was committed by muslims. american tass was urging everyone to use caution, not to jump to conclusions, wait until the facts were in before forming an opinion. the american people were repeatedly urge by american tass to not blame all muslims for the bombing, none of that guilt by associatiion stuff. then mc veigh was arrested and american tass and the democratic party completely forgot about what it was telling the american people. it was blame everyone percieved as a politican enemy of liberal america for the bombing. every conservative, militia, talk radio host, republican politican had blood on their hands. this is what the people here are complaining about. no one knows why this guy did this except him. no one knows if he targeted congresswoman giffords or someone else. no one knows if he was targeting anyone. no one knows his motivation. no one if he ever followed sarah palin, rush, or any other conservative. no one knows if he even liked them or not. yet the same media that urges restraint when someone that might be of their political side does something like can without any fact smears people and blame them for some thing they had nothing to do with. they do it for flat out political gain. that is something that should bother every american.
Retro commented:
May have been a Manchurian Candidate, I wouldn’t put nothing past 0 and his band of thugs
aprilnovember811 commented:
tommy mcdonnell,
Here is some interesting information on the OK City bombing and Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda’s OKC-9/11 Ties
New American ^ | July 26, 2004 | William F. Jasper
Posted on August 30, 2004 1:04:11 PM EDT by robowombat
Vol. 20, No. 15 July 26, 2004 Table of Contents More on Terrorism More on the Oklahoma City Bombing
Al-Qaeda’s OKC-9/11 Ties by William F. Jasper
Al-Qaeda ties to the OKC bombing were not mentioned in the state trial of Terry Nichols, yet evidence used by federal prosecutors in recent cases makes the ties obvious.
Zacarias Moussaoui, dubbed the “20th hijacker” by federal prosecutors, would have been released from federal custody before the 9-11 attacks if not for the heroic persistence of field agents in the FBI’s Minneapolis office. Agent Coleen Rowley and members of her FBI team carried on a running fight with top FBI and Justice Department officials who tried to stop the Minnesota investigation and prevented a search of his laptop computer until after his fellow conspirators crashed their hijacked planes on September 11.
Moussaoui, a French citizen of Moroccan descent, was arrested by the local FBI agents after investigating a tip from Minnesota flight school operators who were suspicious over the nature of his requests for training on a 747 simulator. He has admitted to being a member of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda terrorist group, but denies that he was part of the 9-11 conspiracy. His trial has been delayed by his erratic behavior and numerous appeals.
There are many important, unanswered questions concerning Moussaoui. For instance: Why have federal officials pointedly ignored publicly available facts showing that most of the $64,000 he received from al-Qaeda sources was spent in the Oklahoma City area, where he attended the Airman Flight School in nearby Norman and had ties to a top suspect in the 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City’s Murrah Building? The largest chunk of Moussaoui’s funds, $35,000, was provided by al-Qaeda paymaster Yazid Sufaat, one of the principal hosts of the secret al-Qaeda planning meeting for 9-11 in Malaysia. Moussaoui, according to federal authorities, was operating under the direction of al-Qaeda mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who met in the Philippines with his nephew, World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef, during the same time period that Yousef was meeting with Terry Nichols.
September 11 hijacker Ziad Jarrah’s ticket (United Airlines Flight 93) was purchased from a computer terminal at Oklahoma University in Norman. Moussaoui was a frequent visitor to the OU campus, worked out at the OU gym and recruited OU student Hussain Al-Attas. September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta, a member of al-Qaeda’s cell in Hamburg, Germany, visited the same Norman, Oklahoma, flight school that Moussaoui attended.
Zacarias Moussaoui, the “20th hijacker,” is shown (in green prison uniform) in a courtroom drawing of his arraignment on July 25, 2002 in U.S. District Court. Moussaoui, an admitted al-Qaeda member, is a friend and former roommate of OKC bombing suspect Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta.
Fellow Hamburg Cell hijacker Marwan Al-Shehhi also came to the Oklahoma City area, where he got a speeding ticket in 2001. According to the testimony of the owner of a small motel in Oklahoma City, Moussaoui, Atta and Al-Shehhi all came to his motel together to rent a room about six weeks prior to the 9-11 attacks. Six years earlier, Oklahoma City bombing conspirators Timothy McVeigh and Nichols also were guests at the same motel, along with several Middle Eastern men, weeks prior to the OKC bombing.
Terrorist, Informant or Agent Provocateur?
Perhaps the most important and purposely neglected “coincidence” concerning Moussaoui is his connection to convicted felon Melvin Lattimore, a convert to Islam who now goes by the name Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta. The unwillingness of federal authorities to hold Lattimore/Menepta as a 9-11 suspect in the case is stunning. Equally stunning is the fact that he was never arrested as a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing. Here are some key facts concerning Menepta tying him to the biggest terrorist events in U.S. history:
• Lattimore/Menepta’s credit card was used to help finance the 1993 World Trade Center bombing directed by Ramzi Yousef.
• Federal ATF Agent Jeffrey Whitney has testified in court that one day after the Oklahoma City bombing, an FBI informant told FBI superiors that Menepta should be considered a top suspect in the Oklahoma attack.
• Several employees at Travelers Aid, one block from the Murrah Building, identified Menepta as entering the Travelers Aid office with three other men the day before the Oklahoma City bombing. Two of the men accompanying Menepta were identified as closely resembling associates of McVeigh, and one of the witnesses positively identified the vehicle that the group drove away in as McVeigh’s beat-up Mercury Marquis.
• Menepta was a member of a militant mosque in St. Louis and is now a member of a radical mosque in Norman, where he says he saw Moussaoui on a daily basis. According to Oklahoma news accounts, Menepta and Moussaoui were roommates in Norman, while Moussaoui attended flight school.
• Menepta’s roommate, Al-Attas, drove Moussaoui from Oklahoma to Minnesota to begin flight school there. When Al-Attas was arrested, Menepta drove to Minnesota and posted $5,000 bail for his release.
• When Menepta and Al-Attas returned to Norman on August 21, 2001, more than three weeks before 9-11, agents from the Oklahoma City FBI office knocked on their apartment door. According to the agents, several men fled the apartment and exited the building before the agents could react. Also, according to FBI documents, 9-11 hijacker Salem Al-Hazmi was seen in Menepta’s Norman apartment in April 2001.
• Menepta was arrested one month after the 9-11 attacks as a material witness and possible co-conspirator. Menepta vigorously defended Moussaoui as a “scapegoat.”
• Menepta was prosecuted for illegally possessing weapons as a convicted felon. (He had been convicted of robbery in 1971 and served four years in prison.) He was sentenced in 2002 to 15 months in prison and is now back on the street.
Steadfast witness: Gloria Smith, who managed the office of a charitable organization one block from the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, told FBI agents that Melvin Lattimore/Menepta came to her office with other men in McVeigh’s car. A federal ATF agent has testified in court that one day after the bombing an undercover informant fingered Menepta as the top suspect.
The New American interviewed Gloria Smith, a manager at Travelers Aid in Oklahoma City, who is positive that Menepta/Lattimore is one of the men who came into her office the day before the Oklahoma City bombing. The men had asked for gasoline money or vouchers and had become loud and argumentative when the receptionist explained that they would have to first provide a valid driver’s license. Mrs. Smith stepped out of her office to reinforce her besieged receptionist and to emphasize the company policy requiring photo I.D. before aid could be given. The men left in a huff, and Mrs. Smith watched them through the office window as they got into the car and drove off.
She told The New American that the man who had done most of the talking, and who had long, reddish-blonde hair, “flipped me ‘the finger’” as he got into the car. He had also cursed her in the office, just a few feet from her face, so she had good reason to remember him. She is fairly certain, she says, that the man is James Rosencrans, based on photos she has examined of Rosencrans. Mr. Rosencrans is a former associate of Timothy McVeigh and the Kingman, Arizona, neighbor of Michael Fortier, McVeigh’s fellow bombing conspirator who turned witness for the government in exchange for leniency for himself and his wife, Lori Fortier.
Of two things Mrs. Smith is “very certain”: The black man in the group who came to her office is Menepta, and the car they drove was McVeigh’s Mercury Marquis. She says she got a good look at Menepta. And, she notes, as soon as McVeigh’s car appeared on television news broadcasts, she knew instantly it was the one that had been in her parking lot. She recalls: “I said to the receptionist when they pulled out, ‘No wonder they didn’t give I.D., there’s not even a tag on the car.’” When McVeigh was arrested the next day, shortly after the bombing, there was no license plate on the vehicle.
Mrs. Smith and other employees at Travelers Aid were interviewed several times by the FBI, in Mrs. Smith’s case about 10 times. One of the things that she says has troubled her most about the investigation is that rather than simply asking her and the other witnesses what and who they saw, on several occasions the agents were very insistent on convincing the witnesses that they could not have seen a black man (Menepta) with the suspects.
Still at large: Witnesses and government documents connect Melvin Lattimore aka Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta (left) to at least three of the largest terrorist attacks in U.S. history. Witnesses place Lattimore/Menepta and Timothy McVeigh’s friend James Rosencrans (right) next door to the Murrah Building one day before the OKC bombing — in Timothy McVeigh’s car.
At any rate, the FBI Travelers Aid interviews, recorded in written form on the FBI’s “302s,” should have shown up in the documents that the government was required to turn over to the defense teams in the McVeigh and Nichols trials. They never were turned over, and now they seem to have disappeared.
It’s understandable that Nichols’ defense team would not want to open up the Oklahoma City-Middle East connection, since so much of it leads to their client. But why have federal officials gone to such extraordinary lengths to obstruct every effort to expose these connections? And why are they protecting Lattimore/Menepta? Is he a terrorist, a federal informant, an agent provocateur — or all of the above?
Does everyone remember TWA Flt 800? Remember initial reports from eye witnesses about what looked like a missile? They blamed the crash on some sort of air conditioning problem. I remember the FBI initially being involved in this and then seemed to back away from it.
Considering all of the lies coming from this government with Obama I mentioned to my husband that I have suspicions that TWA Flt 800 was an actual terrorist attack that was covered up. Considering Clinton was in office at the time it’s not out of the realm of possibilities.
I mentioned to my husband tonight that I guess I was naive all these years. I thought the people in government were honest and I believed what they said. Now I find out what degenerates so many of them are, including the courts. I can’t trust a word they say anymore. It makes you start to look back on things and go hmmm. Was this true, was this other thing true, etc.
I wish other generations would have fought all of this so we wouldn’t be facing it now. I will fight for my children though, so they don’t have to.
Can someone point me in the direction of that wonderful free country America?
A Nation Of Truth-Rejecters
January 9th, 2011
http://americangrandjury.org/a-nation-of-truth-rejecters
aprilnovember811 commented:
” I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but until last week, your side controlled the presidency and both houses of congress. ”
Joe,
What are you talking about? The Democrats/now CPUSA have controlled Congress both houses since 2006. They were just beat in the House of Representatives this past November. Your information is incorrect.
Joanne commented:
Leftards are nuts.
Taqiyyotomist commented:
#109 aprilnov.
THANK YOU for that post.
Perhaps the most covered-up story in the past 20 years.
AuntieMadder commented:
Taqiyyotomist, you can post a horse some information but you can’t make him read it.
bubble commented:
Gifford supported SB 1070
http://giffords.house.gov/2010/07/us-rep-gabrielle-giffords-statement-on-sb-1070-ruling.shtml
With all the incendiary “racist” and “Nazi” rhetoric from the msm about that is it surprising an Arizona politician would get hurt sooner or later?
Radegunda commented:
Bubble, good point. The sheriff blamed “bigotry and prejudice.” Does that mean bigotry against law-abiding Americans?
Andreas K. commented:
The only one to blame is the shooter. He wanted to kill. Without a gun he would have killed with a knife. He wanted to kill. Period.
vote for pedro commented:
Would you agree that “hate speech” laws are not only useles, but unconstituitional? C’mon, take a position. You put it in your original comment for a purpose, no?
jh17 commented:
Good morning vote for pedro. Actually, the Supreme Court has upheld “hate speech” (read “fighting words”) laws since 1942 when that speech is used against an individual. If you want my position, here it is. I no longer believe that I have any “rights.” People tell me I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. My life can be taken away from me by a deranged man because I am standing outlide of a Safeway. Parts of my liberty have been taken away from me by terrorists who flew planes into the twin towers – I no longer have the liberty of taking a flight without being scanned and/or searched. And my pursuit of happiness would be in jeopardy within my community if I were gay/lesbian, or in need of a safe abortion, or declared myself an athiest, or openly supported the new healthcare bill. What I do have is the love and grace of friends and family.
My original comment was an attempt to find my way within this horrific time we are in, when people feel obligated to spew so much hatred. I am 65 years old, was raised in the rural Midwest, and have grandchildren who I pray will find calmer, kinder ways to go through life. We have enough hatred attacking us from outside of the US. Must we attack one another as well? Good talking to you.
M.K. commented:
God be with Rep. Giffiords, However, ironically, as a member of congress, rep. giffords has exempted herself from obama care, luckly for her future medical care.
Sadly, she and other members of congress voted that choice away from the rest of us, my head injured son being one of them. Unlike her, my family, in the future, will not get the choice of the Jonny-on-the-spot, top of the line medical treatment we saw Sat. Does her falsely-accusing father believe the common Tea-party member deserves as good of medical care as his daughter is and will be receiving, or has he put his own type of target on our heads, extinction via health care rationing? He does not get a pass for hateful scapegoating.
The sheriff is a hypocrite and should be removed from office. His “false witness” against half of his constituents is unprofessional, and his nose is growing. This sheriff is an evil man using this criminal attack to advance a failed personal political agenda . He is guilty of exactly what he acuses his opponents of doing. He doesn’t like free political scrutinization and obviously wants ideas in opposition to his personal small minded agenda censured. I’ve been alive a long time , as well sheriff DUpnic, and I remember a day when professional law enforcement didn’t use this type of horror to advance ones own career and fought to preserve free political speech! P.U. DUpnic is a poor political looser and a professional disgrace. This failed public protector did not earn a soap box. Where were his men Sat. morning? Raising revenue by picking up interstate drivers for going 70 in a 55? The shooter was able to decipher where the Rep. was holding a rally, why didn’t he? At least Megan Kelly i.d. him as the democrat operative he is.
This event accentuates why OBAMA CARE must be REPEALED. To throw away this type of medical response to such an emergency is IDIOTIC. Our families deserve the right to choose the same medical care that the Representive has and will be allowed to choose. Our returning soldiers with their injuries deserve the same, as does every US citizen.
Remember Natasha Richardson, victim of the Canadian Obamacare health care system: http://www.newser.com/story/53730/richardson-off-life-support.html
Since they failed to diagnose and perform a simple craniotomy in a timely manner, she died of a slow bleed around the brain lining.
A Freedom based health care system, as we have had, did not give Rep. Giffords a “wait in line” card in the ER, yet.
vote for pedro commented:
I appreciate your comment, and I’m sorry if you think anything I’ve written seemed hateful in any way. My only point was that hate speech laws have been applied unequally, and under our system of justice, that’s not suppose to happen. Other than the 24/7 media coverage and new access to information, I don’t think things were quite as rosy as you remember. Listing the conflicts(external and internal) the US has gone throughout your lifetime wouldn’t do any good, and I certainly wouldn’t want to harsh your fond memories. Be safe.
jh17 commented:
vote for pedro commented:
Hi – believe me, nothing was particularly rosey in my life – I just wasn’t inundated with the garbage from both sides the way we are today. No offense to you either. I have enjoyed the back and forth. At age 65 I have to keep the brain cells active. Take care, and stay safe as well.