AZ SHOOTER: Left-Winger JARED LOUGHNER – He Likes Watching US Flags Burn & Favorite Book is Communist Manifesto

He is definitely NOT a tea partier….
Killler identified: Jared Loughner. He is 22. Born September 1988.

Here’s a photo of Jared at a book fair.

He was reportedly left-wing, quite liberal.

** His favorite books: Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf

10 Patients- 1 has died. Several – Five are in critical condition.
The Congresswoman is in critical condition. She was shot in the head one time.
Channel 9 WSYR reported:

Congressional officials say an aide to Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has died after an attack in Tucson, Arizona.

A hospital official there says the congresswoman herself is alive but in critical condition after being shot in the head.

The AP reports that the gunman is identified as Jared Laughner; he is in custody.

From Jared’s YouTube account.
His name is spelled Loughner:

I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
Interests:
My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Movies:
(*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
Music:
Pass me the strings!
Books:
I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

In this favorite video at his YouTube account the US flag is torched.
He’s definitely not a tea partier.

MORE: Hennessey’s View says Loughner left a video.

The rambling video talks about terrorism…

Nuts.

Here’s another screen grab from his video:

The dude is definitely nuts.

UPDATE: These tweets are from someone who knows Loughner and describes him as “leftwing and quite liberal”:

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  • “Laughner” or “Loughner?”

  • bg

    ++

    prayers & sympathies going out to the families & friends of all concerned..

    ==

  • Formerly known as Skeptic

    Raises the question of who the target was.

  • Formerly known as Skeptic

    Oops, wrong thread. That was intended in response to the information about Judge Roll

  • I’m seeing “Laughner”, but there is no internet trail.

  • donh

    Jarod sounds like a hebrew name

  • listingstarboard

    Favorite reading is Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto?

  • anan123

    Just found Loughner’s final video on youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=youtu.be

  • retire05

    22 year old Afghan war veteran? Was he mustered out? When? FaceBook has taken down his page.

    Wait for the spin to start on this. And of course, Obama is going to take to the podium (never let a crisis go to waste).

  • Edouard

    Spelled Jared Loughner on his youtube channel, with his YouTube nic being “classitup10”

    Appears to be a kook by evidence of this text-only video in which he introduces himself… http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4

    He loves to express himself with unsound syllogisms, is the first thing I gained from that video.

  • hashman

    laughner or loughner ??? which is it? is the youtube guy the same guy that is the suspect

  • donh

    Animal Farm and communist manifesto listed as his favorite books. Looks like we have another winner in a long line of communist provocateur enemies within making political hits for their revolutionary leaders . Clearly this killer is another Lee Harvey Oswald who also studied communism in Russia. I suspect Jarod will be dead very soon so no questions can be asked regarding who put him up to this.

  • Chippy

    I don’t think Tea Party people like to read the Communist Manifesto.

  • bg
  • freedomplow

    That video was in his favorites… Not his.

  • Gman

    The Communist Manifesto listed as one of hisfavorite books. Shocking

  • Lenore

    A Tea Partier would never burn the American flag

  • Edouard

    The video I linked in #13 is indeed his, he uploaded it and it has his name in it.

  • Edouard

    Excuse me, I linked it in comment #110.

  • Edouard

    Commen #10 ! Typing too fast. Sheesh

  • vityaz

    What kind of schizophrenic reading list is that? There’s something nihilistic, or at the very least troubled, about most of the titles. Gulliver’s Travels when written was anything but a children’s book, it was one long rant about society gone very wrong. Jonathan Swift also wrote A Modest Proposal where he satirically suggest the Irish eat their own children, not exactly a jolly idea.

  • derrick grady

    Is this kid another teabagger? What a group of nut cases. Hey Teabaggers guns aren’t the answers.

  • LIVE UPDATES FROM AZ. @ http://www.AmericanPatrol.com

  • derrick grady

    Oh yea, watching CNN reading Laughtner’s youtube comment, he was truly a teabagger in waiting

  • Edouard

    He is not any “teabagger.” He does not believe in God according to the video he uploaded of himself at http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4 … and is a kook overly in love with his own incomplete and sophomoric understanding of syllogistic arguments.

  • czekmark

    derrick, go play with your obama doll and leave this post for the adults.

  • Phil
  • Greg

    Here’s his favorite books: Books:
    I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

    Clearly a leftwing nutjob. Looks like Frances Fox Piven got her wish for some “Violence Is Okay if It‘s a ’Big Part of Your Strategy”.

  • I’ve watched Loughner’s videos, read his words. I’m not an authority, but this guy is a crazy, a total psych case, a lunatic. He has reasons of his very own for shooting Giffords and Fed Judge Roll.

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  • Ginger

    Did any one notice watching his video that he said “notice I only have one arm”

  • derrick grady

    Probably a Jim Quinn listening, gun toting, pick up truck driving, god fearing, right wing loving, Sarah palin adoring, Rush limbaugh worshipping, Sean hannity loving, rootin-tootin- TEABAGGER!

  • MrGoodWench

    #24 January 8, 2011 at 3:27 pm
    derrick grady commented:
    Oh yea, watching CNN reading Laughtner’s youtube comment, he was truly a teabagger in waiting
    +++

    We know this loon is gay , but not sure if a tabagger or teabagee.
    And since he loves to read the communist menifesto and mein kampf, he is definitely a Obama worshipper .

  • Nathan

    He is a hodge-podge, but there’s definitely a tea party flavor to his reason for burning for flag: it’s not in the Constitution. It’s the radical conception of the Constitution that pout him with TP’s.

  • Ginger

    The media is saying that someone fell through the cracks…RIGHT! They and the fraud and his evil morons were to busy watching us Americans!!!!!!!

  • Greg

    Derrick Grady has no regard for facts or truth, just left wing moonbat lies. Obviously Derrick is dead inside and doesn’t know it.

  • gus

    What is the difference between this guy and BILL AYERS???

    ANSWER: Bill Ayers is Obama’s friend.

  • retire05

    Oh, yeah, he’s a TEA Partier, all right. We all know that TEA Partiers are making videos wearing a black plastic trash bag and a mask so they can burn our beloved flag.

    Wassa matter, derrick, did all the air come out of your Arriana Huffington doll?

  • Gman

    Typical leftist

  • R Nelson

    #34 January 8, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Seriously, you’re an idiot. Some of the guy’s favorite books are The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf, but, nooo, he’s a Tea Party flavor to you. Some whack-job kills innocent people and your small mind immediately goes to assigning blame to your political enemies. Step out of the basement for a little bit and think about other people for a little bit. Idiot.

  • ant

    Nathan, radical conception? Do you mean like the “right to healthcare”, “the right to privacy”,”separation of church and state”? the commerce clause grants Congress the power to force people to buy a service or product? Pretty radical, but that’s Pelosi radical, not TP radical. And I’m no English Major, obviously, but I’m not sure conception is the right word, if it is you have my pre-emptive apology.

  • AuntieMadder

    Chippy commented:
    “I don’t think Tea Party people like to read the Communist Manifesto.”

    They’re not big fans of Mein Kampf, either.

  • Edouard

    Twitter message by someone who claims to have know the shooter calls him a liberal:

    http://twitter.com/caitieparker/status/23853016876589057

    “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.”

  • Stuart

    Hot Air posted a video that Jarod apparently up loaded to You Tube. If indeed it is his “Last thoughts” it exposes a truly disassociated mind. It is a textbook definition of irrational rambling.
    Based on this video I suspect we are not dealing with an political ideologue of any stripe, but truly a mad hatter. This is just my two cents. Face it folks we do not yet have enough information to make any judgements on his motives yet.

  • Edouard

    #45 January 8, 2011 at 3:44 pm
    derrick grady commented:

    ^
    ^
    Someone ban that idiot please

  • gorgo

    1. Watch how long he’s allowed to keep breathing.

    2. Watch how – somehow, some way – he’s tied to the right.

    3. Watch to see what big news breaks, if any does, this weekend that will be obscured by the media wall to wall on this.

    Sorry to sound paranoid here but I’ve earned it. I live in the United States of Obama.

  • AuntieMadder

    To Kill a Mockingbird, Gulliver’s Travels and One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest are high on the list of lefturd classics because of their libtard messages. (I must admit, however, that I’ve enjoyed the movie versions of Mockingbird and Cuckoo’s Nest, due to the performances of the actors in them. And, as a kid, I liked the animated versions of Gulliver’s Travels.)

  • greenfairie

    I saw all of the YouTube vids. This guy is another schizo like John F. Hinckley.

  • AuntieMadder

    gorgo, you come across as reasonable to me. After all, the state run media tried like he!! to paint the Austin prop-plane murder-suicide nutjob as a TEA Partying conservative, despite his closing his online suicide letter with a Karl Marx quote.

  • Rock

    The young man seems to be troubled by the flag, and religion. Pretty sure he is no Tea Party enthusiast. Given his reading material includes the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf would suggest that Nathan above nothing but a Liberal Troll.

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  • Joe

    #43, interesting find.

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  • AuntieMadder

    gus commented:
    “What is the difference between this guy and BILL AYERS???

    ANSWER: Bill Ayers is Obama’s friend.”

    Also…

    Ayers is a coward who learned how to make bomb so that he could be far, far away from the carnage he caused at the moment it happened.

    Ayers had a rich daddy who bought his son’s way out of prison.

  • The Kos article posted in a previous comment thread here has already been scrubbed! I didn’t take a screen shot, but I copied the text and comments before it was scrubbed and have posted it at my blog Talk Wisdom

    Oh yeah…they are now trying to blame Sarah Palin and her so-called “target” map. What a bunch of crooks and liars the kookKos bloggers are!

  • bg

    ++

    Nathan #34

    if that’s the case, then Tea Parties must burn lots of flags!!

    rotflmbo!!

    ==

  • Kevin

    Here is his FB page, I’d say it pretty much tells the story:

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001952074770

  • Lee

    My guess: This character is a nut. (Big surprise there) And he will plead insanity. This time, I’d believe it.

  • The killer was no Tea Partier. Tea Partiers believe in the OPPOSITE of the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. He was a progressive. A progressive is someone who wants to see progress toward communism.

  • bob simon

    From the U.S. flag code under Respect the Flag

    The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

    http://www.flagkeepers.org/FlagRules.asp

    The flag in the video is tattered

  • bg

    ++

    derrick grady #56

    yeah rightl..

    ==

  • The Daily Kos is blaming Sarah Palin…

    http://www.bluecollarphilosophy.com/2011/01/giffords-shooting-to-be-blamed-on-sarah-palin-the-daily-kos-thinks-so.html

    Get your guns ready for confiscation.

  • Was he a Ron Paul supporter?

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  • Militant Conservative

    #32 January 8, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    derrick grady commented:

    Uh huh, keep talking as your making the regular troll look smart.
    I think JAROD LOUGHNER was a simple minded liberal skull full of shitte.
    powder is dry. Wonder how the incident stopped? Arizona is a open carry state. Was it a citizen or a cop that stopped the violence. More will surface by tomorrow.

  • Rachelle

    In fairness, he also included ‘We The Living’ in his list of favorite books. It is hard to get a handle on this despicable person other than that he is some type of nut.

    My first thoughts were that the shooter might be from one of the border drug cartels and, failing that, some ‘progressive’ who didn’t like the congresswoman’s take on immigration. So much of the violence comes from the left. Now, given this guy’s reading list, I don’t think we will know until later. I don’t think he can be called a big government progressive because his You Tube screed seems to hate all government. Maybe an anarchist? Maybe he is indefinable. Except we know he is scum.

  • AuntieMadder

    derrick grady commented:
    “Is this kid another teabagger? What a group of nut cases. Hey Teabaggers guns aren’t the answers.”

    Funny you should say that because I was just thinking that it’s too bad no one at the scene besides Laughner had carried a firearm, and how, if someone besides him had been packing, how we might be commenting on the attempted shooting of Gifford and the identity of the suspect, now deceased.

    What are the odds that Laughner’s firearm(s) was legally registered to him? My bet is on 1 in 1,000.000.

  • Come Again

    DonH commented
    “Animal Farm and communist manifesto listed as his favorite books. Looks like we have another winner in a long line of communist provocateur enemies within making political hits for their revolutionary leaders”.
    Animal Farm is an anti-Communist Work. In his own words he sounds like a paranoid conspiracy freak

  • Twisted Sister

    Michelle Malkin has some of those screenshots from Kos if you guys need them.

  • bg

    ++

    re: #14

    that was not Jared in the morbid flag buerning video..

    as you can clearly see, he has two arms..

    ==

  • dwd

    Yep, he’s a nutjob… but look at the media spin already. The Yahoo homepage chooses a photo of Giffords and BOEHNER to highlight this story. Proof:
    http://l1.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2011/01/08/ariz-pd.jpg

  • Tom Brosen

    From a Twitter user who says she knew the guy:

    @antderosa As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.

    http://twitter.com/caitieparker/status/23853016876589057

  • AuntieMadder

    Rachelle, you’re probably right. However, posting pre-emptive comments that reveal his leftardism because we know that, as we’re doing this, the leftards and their state run media are working on their description of him as a conservative “teabagger.”

  • Guyoverthere

    You people are seriously whacked if you think just because he has Communist Manifesto in his reading list makes him an automatic lefty. I personally know Tea Partiers who have read, and LIKED Communist Manifesto as much as they disagree with it. And I’ve met atheist/agnostic Tea Partiers as well. So the point of him not being in the Tea Party just because of those two reasons is null and void.

    I’m not saying he was either. I’m just saying that you can’t tell a person political leanings because they read a couple of books! Hell, I have Mark Levin’s book in my library and I think he’s douche nozzle. The point? This man was clearly deranged and it doesn’t matter where his political ideologies lay. He killed a person and wounded several others.

    Whether he was right, left, center, up or down DOES NOT MATTER!!!

  • kalaxx

    Folks,

    Jared L. may be closer to the right than to the left. For the uninitiated, We the Living (Ayn Rand), Animal Farm (George Orwell), Fahrenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury), and Brave New World (Aldous Huxley) represent examples of literature that shows the horrors of authoritarian / Communist societies.

    As for his interest in Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto, he may have simply subscribed to the idea to “know thy enemy”.

    His comments in his loony YouTube videos show an interest in the gold standard for currency, something some Libertarians support.

    Regardless, the lack of civil discourse in our country certainly can’t help but fan the flames of these crazies.

  • Joe Astroturf

    I thought there was a 1% chance he was a teapartier. 99% he was a fan of the Green Czar Van Jones. Always take the odds.

  • Edouard

    He is anti-social and confused. He learned inaccurately about syllogistic arguments somewhere and deploys them badly and amateurishly. He favorites a flag-burning video and says he will not trust in God. A SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY mixed-up soul and not Tea Party material

  • Guyoverthere

    “So much of the violence comes from the left.”

    Evidence?

  • Maybe now everyone can quiet down about this being the fault of the Tea Party. Oh wait, the media is all liberal. Never mind.

    I’ve said a some prayers for Rep. Giffords. This whole thing is just awful.

  • Rachelle

    One last thought: Thank goodness Arizona has the death penalty and isn’t afraid to use it [except for honor killings].

  • Bogdan from Australia

    Mentaly degraded Grady; Political assassinations are a favourite stuff of lefttist. They started with Trotzki and continued throughout the entire twenty century.

    Mehmed Ali Agca who assassinated the Pope John Paul II was nominally a member of Turkish right-wing nationalistic organisation but was conditioned and controlled by the Bulgarian Secret Service who has been the branch of Soviet KGB.

    This is how the leftists are doing things; They use mentally disturbed individuals from various fringe groups to do the dirty work and then orchetrate “blame the other side” campaign.

    There is no doubt that the American left shall use that tragedy to accuse the Conservatives and apply that as apretest to impose further totalitarian measures on the Yanks.

  • freedomplow

    Someone on twitter…

    As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.

    http://twitter.com/caitieparker/status/23853016876589057

    This is a circus. Good Morning America just called me.

    http://twitter.com/caitieparker/status/23861365563199488

  • retire05

    bg, I would think the comment about “one arm” is symbolic. As in a “one armed paper hanger” example.

    This is one confused person. He could have read “Animal Farm” and mistaken it for what it was. With the Communist Manifesto, there is no doubt to what the authors are saying.

  • CattusMagnus

    How the hell do you like books by Rand, Orwell and Bradbury AND The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?

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  • Rachelle

    Guyoverthere quoted my remark that ‘so much of the violence comes from the left.’

    And then he asked for evidence:

    Answer: Lee Harvey Oswald

    And lately: SEIU, AFL/CIO, ACORN

    Also Assassination of Pres. McKinley.

    Assassination of Robert Kennedy (Palestinian killer, but of a ‘victim’ class embraced by the left).

    Riots in London, Riots in Greece, Riots in France.

    Get the idea, GUYOVERTHERE, with his head up his….?

  • daily kos trying to delete their pages encouraging the shooter… links show they had a “hit piece” written on the AZ congresswoman…

    check out: http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

  • echo

    Folks,
    This guy is what is known as a depraved theist. Who knows what kind of god he prays to?
    I have no idea what his political motivation is, but I am reading posts herein that lack critical thinking. Just because this guy read COMMUNIST MANIFESTO doesn’t make him a communist, inasmuch as his reading MEIN KAMPF doesn’t make him a right-wing nut. People with, shall we say, intellectual curiosity, read things that run the gamut. For example, along with the Huff Post and The Nation, I read Newsmax and National Review (must say I don’t have my faith in the Newsmax, and I believe the NR lost its integrity when Buckley passed).
    Let’s just say he’s unhinged, and whether he reads the Daily Kos and Gateway Pundit, his itchy trigger finger was easily scratched.

  • FGT

    #77

    Bill Ayers, SDS, 1968 Democrat convention, Francis Piven…

  • Come Again

    Guyoverthere -Exactly! Also ridiculous is anyone with who uses ‘They started it ” BS. A child died.

  • donh

    Karl Marx was jewish and an apostate from rabbi decent. The dangerous anti semites are the self loathing God rejecting jew. Jarod having a hebrew first name , cherishing Mein Kampf, and attacking a jewish congress woman is not the mindset of a confused lunatic. This person has a deeply committed ideological agenda….much like Obama and the rest of his anti Israel gang of muslim sympathizers.

  • gus

    GUYOVERTHERE. Let me guess!!! You are a LIBTARD???? A focking clown and libtard.

  • bg

    ++

    AuntieMadder #66

    re: [I was just thinking that it’s too bad no one at the scene besides
    Laughner had carried a firearm, and how, if someone besides him had
    been packing, how we might be commenting on the attempted shooting
    of Gifford and the identity of the suspect, now deceased.]

    excellent point, thank you..

    i don’t know how many times we need to be remided of that fact.. also
    can’t imagine how many more victims Hasan would have chalked up had
    that brave policewoman not been carrying..

    ==

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  • echo

    Rachelle,

    No one really knows what Oswald’s affiliation was. Two problems: if you believe he was the lone gunman, then you can’t think he was a lefty— why would he care if JFK was going to pull the US out of Vietnam (the real reason Kennedy was killed)? If you think he was a patsy, then, yes, he probably did have affinity for the Russian Communists. The whole thing stinks so profoundly, that you would be hard-pressed to place him neatly in the left assassin box.

    I also want to know what great violence ACORN is guilty of? Your examples, like so many oranges in my smoothie, are strained.

  • bg

    ++

    donh #91

    wow, certainly worth pondering, thanks..

    ==

  • jimg

    Whether he was right, left, center, up or down DOES NOT MATTER!!! – guyoverthere

    Agreed.

    Now, maybe you could spend a bit of your free time educating your fellow liberals of this exact point.

  • Rachelle

    To GUYOVERTHERE who asked for evidence of violence from the left. Don’t forget the Haymarket Bombing and Riots in Chicago and the leftist promoted murders by the Western Federation of Miners.

  • Jordan

    He also enjoyed Mein Kompf and Brave New World. Those might suggest that he is a right-winger. Though, I’m sure those on this site as well as those on left wing sites will both try like hell to pin him to the others ideologies.

    Flag burning is also quite popular on the right and the left, as well. His favorite video link indicates that the reason for the flag burning in the video was a digust with the constitution or the lack thereof. A right complaint.

    And the race from both sides continues. Hopefully this can serve as a reality to check to some.

    PERHAPS, he’s just a very disturbed person……. but that wouldnt serve anyones agenda.

  • Ron Williams

    Daily Tea Party website list 3 planks supported in the Communist Manifesto http://bit.ly/fKf9B9 one of Jared Lee Loughner’s favorite books. Wake up and smell the tea.

  • The left wing media wanted this guy so bad to be CONSERVATIVE…

    Lets see how they spin it now huh?

    You Libs are f…….ng sick in the head…

    This punk should be hung right now on LIVE TV…Put a end to the crap

  • Granny

    #84 January 8, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    CattusMagnus commented:

    How the hell do you like books by Rand, Orwell and Bradbury AND The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?
    _____________

    Frankly, a lot of that list reads like the required reading for any middle or high school in the country. And much of the rest of it is much like you would find in a number of Community College classes – Fahrenheit 451 comes readily to mind.

  • Elizabeth McGrath

    You try to distance yourself from this violence, but by your very incivility or public commentary in the last political season… you show yourself to be inflammatory. This nation is divided into have and have nots more and more. This is likely a complete nut job, but Palin is the one who put Ar confressional district in the cross hairs of a rifle. Violence begets violence. If this shooter was nuts then look closer at your own violent comments. You just got what you have asked for, very sad. The responsibility for this is on the right.

  • Maria A

    Why do we see the need to label these nut cases as either leftwing, liberal, rightwing, etc.?? Let’s just label him, if we must, as a nutcase murderer.

  • echo

    I am confused: Does DonH hate the Jews or not? Does he love Israel and hate the JEws? I am all for making his syntax tax-free…

  • gorgo

    Guyoverthere commented:

    “I personally know Tea Partiers who have read, and LIKED Communist Manifesto as much as they disagree with it.”

    Sure you do.

    All I’d heard from the left (before you) was that Tea Party people couldn’t possibly comprehend, much less decode, a lofty sacred text like Marx’s.

    Now you’re here saying not only can they do so, but they like it?

    Right.

    Is that the new meme you had emailed to you for the week? Kinda thin, don’t you think?

  • Granny

    ss252 – you are way the HELL out of line. This is a nation of laws. Every time one of you idiots calls for a somebody to be strung up on live TV you make all the rest of us look worse than the leftie loonatics. Maybe you should just go back and crawl under a rock.

  • Noreen Ringlein

    John Roll, the judge who was murdered is your responsibility and the little 9 yr old. Your comments evoke violence. Sarah Palin put this congressional district in the cross hairs of a rifle. You are not civil in your comments and now this sad state and a nation divided. Sarah Palin is as equally insane as whoever this Jarod Loughner person is.

  • rbosque

    This confused guy is the product of a twisted left-wing ideology, he’s an Obama baby.

  • Edouard

    #83 CattusMagnus

    My guess is that the guy is pretending to be erudite, when his “Final thoughts” video shows him to be merely confused and muddled. His brand of disdain for government strikes me as anarchist, not conservative. His garbled “philosophy”, such as it is, is disconnected and deeply inconsistent — contrarian merely for the sake of being contrarian, as far as I can figure.

  • Rachelle

    Echo said:

    “No one really knows what Oswald’s affiliation was.”

    And I suppose you believe 9/11 was an inside job and that aliens built the pyramids, and Elvis is still alive somewhere.

    I remember the Kennedy assassination. Nobody had any doubts whatsoever that Oswald was what he claimed he was: Communist. He studied Russian, praised and worked for support of Communist Cuba, lived in the Soviet Union and married there. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. [Unless if belongs to Clinton, come to think of it].

  • Henry Hawkins

    This is right up my alley – I’m a forensic psychologist and I have some experience in profiling from limited info. with the understanding it comes on limited info just emerging….

    The totality of the various FB posts and other stuff attributed to this guy reveals clearcut psychosis. One thing in particular caught my eye, as reported by Shep on FOX. The shooter ranted about the government controlling people’s minds through grammar. This is completely consistent with schizophrenia, paranoid type. Typical (most common) age for onset of schizophrenia is 18-22 years of age. He’s reportedly 22. He also speaks on FB of ‘conscience dreaming’, which I’m pretty sure is a misspelling of conscious dreaming, that is, dreaming while awake. Schizophrenics experiencing hallucinations try to explain them in mundane ways and conscious dreaming would be a good way to explain visual hallucinations: I’m awake, I’m seeing things that cannot possibly be there, ergo I’m either crazy or I’m consciously dreaming. Likewise paranoid ideations about the government controlling his mind – again, knowing soemthing isn’t right, he must either explain the problems in his mind or accept he is insane. Blaming the government outsources the blame, guilt, and fear and allows him to deny his insanity. Unfortunately, in some schizophrenics it also causes great anger for the perceived intrusive violation. Shooting a congressperson and entourage is an act of revenge.

    Point: Even if they found a Tea Party membership card in his pocket and his apartment is full of Tea Party literature, or conversely, even if he had a Progressives Anonymous membership card in his pocket and his apartment is full of Newsweek magazines, his violent act is most likely to have had nothing to do with politics per se, as we think of them. Conservatives and liberals are equally at risk for any mental disorder, and schizophrenia is no respecter of political affiliation. What I would hate to see is conservatives overly eager to paint this kid as a liberal or lefty if the evidence for it isn’t there. Leave it to libs to make him out a righty, quite without evidence for it, and thereby maintain the low ground they typically occupy. Repeat: he may turn out to be a lefty or a righty, but the info to date looks ver much like schizophrenia, and that any political overtones to his violent actions are a symptom of his mental disorder, not causation for murder.

  • echo

    All I know, Leftist-violence-is-more-prevalent folks, the life expectancy of an abortion clinic doctor in this country is about the same as helicopter pilot in Vietnam. Well, I exaggerate. I think some folks here might not want to get into a pissing contest about whose idealogical side has more blood on its hands. I mean, just the Iraq debacle starts things off dramatically lop-sided.

  • rbosque

    Give it a rest Noreen, Palin doesn’t shoot people. It’s your irrational hatred of Palin that has to drag her into this. The shooter was a left-wing punk get over it!

  • Granny

    Elizabeth and Noreen – obviously you are either the same person or commenting from the same script. Just who are you referring to?

    Both the Democrats and the Republicans have used “targeting” language towards various congressional seats. Recently. This isn’t all on Sarah Palin. And then there is YOUR president with his “get out there and fight” and “they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun” comments. I would venture that more than a little blame can be laid at his doorstep.

    Meanwhile, why don’t you just go troll somewhere else.

  • gorgo

    Noreen Ringlein commented:

    “Sarah Palin put this congressional district in the cross hairs of a rifle.”

    So how’d she manage to get a anarcho-leftist to pull the trigger?

  • Pingback: Jared Lee Loughner: He is left wing radical progressive type FREAK, now we can add cold blooded murderer to that description. The media will try every angle to make him look like a right wing radical, but that will all be a LIE. « Minority Rights Ad()

  • Formerly known as Skeptic

    Actually, there was at least one report that someone in the crowd fired on the gunman.

  • Edouard

    #99 Jordan

    “He also enjoyed Mein Kompf and Brave New World. Those might suggest that he is a right-winger.”

    I know of no “right-winger” who “enjoys” Mein Kampf. Try again

  • bg

    ++

    retire05 #83

    whatever & however, one of the posters (the one who posted the video
    i can no longer find??) said it was one of Jared fav vids, not that Jared
    had made the vid..

    re: his confusing animal farm with the communistic manifesto,
    have absolutely no clue from who or where that came from..

    ==

  • GrayRider

    #108

    Get therapy to straighten out your thoughts. Sarah Palin had as much to do about this as you did. You should substitute your name for Sarah Palin in your last sentence

  • Mad Hatter

    I understand you Alinsky children of the left hate Palin, but this has gotten out of control with the “Palin is to blame”, “Palin is just as bad as the shooter”, “Palin promotes violence” noise.

    Thanks for showing the rest of us how you Alinskly children that blame Palin don’t believe in personal responsibility. With that said, please go back to the Daily Kook website.

  • Chisum

    Elizabeth McGrath/Noreen Ringlein

    Why did you change your name? Are you a troll?

  • retire05

    Elizabeth McGraft, jeeze, another progressive who can’t read a simple thing like a map.

    Tell us, oh wise Elizabeth, if Palin wanted to put a bull’s eye on Gifford’s district, don’t you think she would put it where Gifford’s district ACTUALLY WAS? Ten counties, ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER?

    Grasping at that straw is not going to save your drowning party.

  • kas

    So, he’s 22? According to Linda Lopez he “was an Afghan War Vet”. She seemed quite sure about that.

  • bg

    ++

    Jordan #99

    what??

    rotflmbo!!

    ==

  • Edouard

    Noreen Ringlein commented:

    “John Roll, the judge who was murdered is your responsibility and the little 9 yr old. Your comments evoke violence. Sarah Palin put this congressional district in the cross hairs of a rifle. You are not civil in your comments and now this sad state and a nation divided. Sarah Palin is as equally insane as whoever this Jarod Loughner person is.”

    Noreen, what an outrageous and uncalled-for comment. You are in fact the uncivil one. Please remove the mote from your own eye and cease with such divisive and baseless allegations. Perhaps you missed the avalanche of prayers and expressions of deep distress expressed by conservatives the last few hours.

  • gorgo

    Henry Hawkins commented:

    “Repeat: he may turn out to be a lefty or a righty, but the info to date looks ver much like schizophrenia, and that any political overtones to his violent actions are a symptom of his mental disorder, not causation for murder.”

    That is your opinion and you may be right but you may be mistaken. We may never know either way but you know as well as anyone there are many, many unmedicated folks walking around out there right now, steeped in delusions, who still do not violently act on them. This one did.

    IF his tightly held political beliefs – which appear to have supplied him with a large part of his reason for being, given his apparent devotion to them – were stoked so high by all the leftist fury of recent years, then you’re wrong. In THAT case, it would be the reverse — his delusional state was tipped over the edge to violence BY his politics.

    But as I said, we may never know.

  • AuntieMadder

    To Guyoverthere, Elizabeth McGrath, and Noreen Ringlein: Go slither back under your rocks. When anyone here wants to hear from an a$$hole, we’ll fart.

  • CattusMagnus

    #95 Echo,

    Oswald lived in Russia for three years (he taught himself Russian), subscribed to a communist newspaper, and also had ties to the communist party in the US. So, yeah, you could say he had an affinity for communism and Russians.

  • Henry Hawkins

    In a country of 300,000,000 people, one man has gone on a shooting spree. He is exhibiting clear cut signs of mental illness, with symptoms consistent with schizophrenia. And what do people do? Try to make it a political thing, some trying to pin in The Other Party. If vehement political feelings could cause shootings among even 1% of people, we ought to be seeing a shooting like this every week. What is there at all in this story to make it about politics? He’s not sane. For all we know he shot her because she’s a Diamondbacks fan. Or isn’t.

    Granted, there is little info as yet, but where psychosis becomes so bad it causes one to start shooting, there is little point in looking for ‘reasons’. That’s the whole definition of insane – unreason.

  • echo

    Rachelle.
    I have read 4 books about the JFK assassination, and there’s no way he did it alone. And there’s no way such a wide-ranging conspiracy could happen without someone big involved. He, OSwald, had definite right-wing affinities, and I am not merely quoting Oliver Stone. The Russian sojourn does stink of something, but I am not sure of what. And, of course, the guy who was killed had liberal sympathies.

  • Rock

    Well that didn’t take long, news report saying Obama wants internet I.D’s. for every American. More Socialist control from our God in Chief. Given how quick he dropped this bomb you might ask was Rep. Giffords was a sacrificial lamb for the move and a gift to Pelosi .

    Of course the fact that anyone might even think such speaks volumes to the trust that Chicago Style Politics have cost the White House.

  • GrayRider

    Sarah Palin’s comment on her facebook page:
    http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=24718773587

    My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona.

    On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

    – Sarah Palin

  • Come Again

    CattusMagnus commented:

    How the hell do you like books by Rand, Orwell and Bradbury AND The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?

    Good Question! The answer is you don’t. Personally I don’t think he read any of the books. I think were are looking at someone who sadly didn’t think there wasn’t anything to him. Even his non political choices are very scattered but notice for all of his great love reading and his supposed obsession over the English Language there are no works that isn’t general republished and reproduced. All titles familiar to people whether or not they read them. Likewise I doubt he has an actual political affiliation. These kids are chameleons
    “This is one confused person. He could have read “Animal Farm” and mistaken it for what it was.” I don’t agree with that but how can anyone be confused reading.”We The Living”

  • listingstarboard

    Did anyone notice how many fake sites under the misspelled name went up instantly? There were sites with the Gadsden flag saying Tea Party Patriot under the name Jared Laughlin within minutes. God almighty these leftists are subhuman.

  • gorgo

    Again I ask:

    How did Palin get an apparent anarcho-leftist to commit murder of a Democrat?

  • Granny

    #126 January 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    bg commented:

    ++

    Jordan #99

    what??

    rotflmbo!!

    ==

    The uneducated products of the leftist “educational” system for some reason think that Mein Kampf (which they cannot spell) is a “right wing” tract. They are blissfully unaware that the Nazis were every bit as much socialist totalitarians as the bosheviks – and leftists. Two sides of the same exact coin.

  • bg

    ++

    #125 January 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    kas

    don’t think so, in his December 15, 2010 video 2:54 mark,
    he claims he went to MEPS in Phoenix and got a mini bible..

    ==

  • Noreen Ringlein

    Clearly he is psychotic and delusional. I would agree with the forensic psychologist who commented. But then here is the rub, the right does not wish to cover any mental health costs as in for the children identified with special education needs. I have worked in this field. Most emergent schizophrenics are at home with out any actual community mental health care. Ex one was recommended for residential care. But no one in the state the child lives in will pay for it. The child is all of 11 years old and should be in care and his parents have paid all that they can for his care and support and tutoring. People you get what you ask for, is all that i wish to point out. Violence begets violence.

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  • Henry Hawkins

    Gorgo – If he’s crazy, he could tipped over the edge by a ham sandwich. Now, when completely sane Tea Partiers or completely sane Libs starting shooting, then you’ve got a ‘political’ shooting. But a mentally ill person can and will seize on anything to trigger them. If this kid’s a liberal, liberalism is not responsible for what he did. He is responsible for what he did. Same thing if he’s a Tea Partier – conservatism would not be responsible for what he did. He would.

  • Sandy

    Needless to say this is a horrible tragedy but I am already hearing on Fox News that Congresswoman Giffords office was vandalized because of her affirmative vote on Healthcare. Somehow the Republicans have to be tied to this even if the guy who did the shooting was a leftwinger.

  • Granny

    #
    #136 January 8, 2011 at 4:38 pm
    listingstarboard commented:

    Did anyone notice how many fake sites under the misspelled name went up instantly? There were sites with the Gadsden flag saying Tea Party Patriot under the name Jared Laughlin within minutes. God almighty these leftists are subhuman.
    _________

    No, I didn’t. But keep a list because it is easy enough to prove when a site went up.

  • Edouard

    Conservatives, behold the liberals’ fever-ridden condemnations.

    Of course it’s always the immediate aftermath of the event, well prior to the arrival of thorough evidence and full disclosure of the facts, that is lefties’ best and only opportunity to slander the Tea Party with the idiotic anxiety of their half-baked conclusions.

  • rbosque

    The left wastes no time in smearing this on the Tea Party, shameless.

  • gorgo

    “This is one confused person. He could have read “Animal Farm” and mistaken it for what it was.”

    Agreed. But remember there are statists who consider 1984 as a ground plan for their utopia, rather than a dire warning – written by a Socialist, no less – about where Communism invariably leads (and he was quite correct). Probable answer: leftists are stupid and believe words have no inherent meaning, so the meaning of books is open to interpretation; i.e., they mean whatever your chosen expert tells you it means.

  • bg

    ++

    Granny #138

    not only that..

    ==

  • Militant Conservative

    #74 January 8, 2011 at 4:07 pm
    Guyoverthere commented:

    Yes it does matter. That you can read the great one’s work and not come away enlightened shows your lack of intellect and reason.
    Right wing people (unless unhinged) do not do this. Left wing people regularly do this as it is part and parcel of the ideology of the left.
    Your problem is that we know who you are. Here is shat YOU have to worry about. IF I start shooting I will have hundreds of thousands of people with me. I am a reasoned individual that loves the country as founded. YOUR side hates it as founded. Your side also hates guns as a matter of fact. The gun is only a tool, the person behind the gun makes it a weapon. Grow up, smell the coffee, Lefties are full of hate and discontent. Proof will become even more self evident as the left was thrown from the institutions of power for disreguarding the constitution and common decencey. powder is dry,punk.

  • Mad Hatter

    Hey Sandy, #143,

    The Republicans have to be tied to this? They “have to be”? Really? All of them, or some of them? Names please, and how are they responsible for this?

  • Rock

    #132 January 8, 2011 at 4:37 pm
    echo commented:

    Rachelle.
    I have read 4 books about the JFK assassination

    My God man do you even know the difference between your own left and right, let alone the ideology of the Left and Right? Don’t bother to answer you will just echo some Leftist B/S passed as education from one of the Ivy League training centers.

  • donh

    Echo truth will confuse a confused mind. I am simply stating this looks to be a jew on jew crime that has a religious motive. Just as Stalin purged the jewish Bolshevik from his party by ordering a hit on Leon Trotsky and hundreds of other jewish communsit leaders, I do not think jews are safe in Obama’s party even if they have fully disavowed Israel , suck up to powerful muslims, and push the socialist agenda .

  • Granny

    #140 – you must have “worked in this field” somewhere in West Timbuktu. Children with schizophrenia are mandated an education and they receive one, often to the tune of a couple hundred thousand a year at a residential facility. There is no “don’t want to provide” about it. Title IX mandates it and has done since 1972.

  • So…the guy’s a goldbug with a fetish for guns and a fixation on the US Constitution…and he’s a lefty?

    Uh-huh.

  • Chisum

    Noreen Ringlein/Elizabeth McGrath,

    I believe you when you say you are in the mental health field. I believe you are actively engaged…as a patient.

    Buzz off, TROLL.

  • Granny

    #148 January 8, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    bg commented:

    ++

    Granny #138

    not only that..

    ==

    I tried to politely refrain from pointing that out in response to Echo’s “I am Balkan” the other day.

  • Chisum

    Blue Texan,

    He burns a U.S. flag. A common righty thingy.

  • AuntieMadder

    Henry Hawkins commented:
    In a country of 300,000,000 people, one man has gone on a shooting spree. He is exhibiting clear cut signs of mental illness, with symptoms consistent with schizophrenia. And what do people do? Try to make it a political thing, some trying to pin in The Other Party. If vehement political feelings could cause shootings among even 1% of people, we ought to be seeing a shooting like this every week. What is there at all in this story to make it about politics? He’s not sane. For all we know he shot her because she’s a Diamondbacks fan. Or isn’t.

    Henry, the victims are what makes this story about politics. That’s a gimme. However, you’re right about the man being a nutjob. The man who flew his prop plane into an Austin office building that housed, among others, a small group (four employees, if I recall correctly) of IRS workers was also a nutjob but that didn’t stop the left and their state run media from wrongly reporting him to be a “right-wingnut, even though he closed his online suicide letter with a Karl Marx quote. You can bet your last dollar they’re doing the same now with Loughner’s story. We’ve learned in the past that if we take the high road and don’t play their game, we lose. So, the posted comments placing Loughner on the left are pre-emptive strikes. (There’s a war metaphore for the leftards who are reading here.)

  • wow

    #108 January 8, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    Noreen Ringlein commented:

    #103 January 8, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    Elizabeth McGrath commented:

    The blame Sarah brigade is out in full force.

  • DomesticGoddess

    How dare the libtrolls blame the Tea Party Patriots for this tragedy before they have the facts. Now that they have the facts they are making all kinds of projections about the sanity of the gunman – but notice that NONE talk about his political affiliation. They are even defending his reading of the Communist Manifesto as somthing all middle schoolers read?? Hmmm – I have four kids and they never read that or Mein Kamf. All bets are on that they will blame it on Bush before the night is through!!

  • gorgo

    Hawkins:

    “He is responsible for what he did. Same thing if he’s a Tea Partier – conservatism would not be responsible for what he did. He would.”

    I agree with all you wrote but I thought (forgive my cynicism) the point of mental illness labels was to REMOVE responsibility for such actions?

    Again I agree with you – he’s at fault, 100%. And he clearly has issues…I wouldn’t be surprised he complained about women wanting his precious bodily fluids somewhere.

    But so far, he appears to be some type of leftist-anarchist mutation. Note in recent years how many vandalizings, public insults, physical assaults and murders have happened at the hand of people who – when it all came out – were shown to be left-leaning more than right-leaning. Coincidence? I personally don’t think so…there’s something in leftism that has always promoted violence as a legit means to ends, so it’s no surprise it draws the violence-prone (crazy or not).

    On the evidence we do have, I still blame his leftism.

  • Sandy

    Noreen you’re going to blame Republicans for the fact that this lunatic didn’t get treatment for his mental problems? How about blaming teachers for being more interested in left wing politics then teaching a class?

    Sarah Palin did not do this, nor did the Right Wing. The perpetrator is ultimately responsible for his own actions — no one else. This sort of thing will go on as long as narcissistic fools decide to take the lives of innocent people when the life they want to take is their own.

  • AuntieMadder

    Rock commented:
    “Well that didn’t take long, news report saying Obama wants internet I.D’s. for every American. More Socialist control from our God in Chief. Given how quick he dropped this bomb you might ask was Rep. Giffords was a sacrificial lamb for the move and a gift to Pelosi .

    Of course the fact that anyone might even think such speaks volumes to the trust that Chicago Style Politics have cost the White House.”

    They “never let a good crisis go to waste.”

  • gorgo

    Once again, leftist trolls:

    How did Palin get an anarcho-leftist to commit these murders?

    Please explain.

  • Granny

    Domestic, I am the one who made the comment about his reading list. You forgot to read the qualifier “most” that I included. MOST of the reading list looks like that handed out at any middle/high/community college in the country – obviously over various years.

    And I am no leftie thank you very much.

  • Militant Conservative

    #112 January 8, 2011 at 4:29 pm
    Henry Hawkins commented:

    while a well reasoned argument you have to admit the left is trying to agitate the left into violence to then “not let the tragedy go to waste”.
    You sir have underestimated our opponet and short changed the sheer sneaky nature of comunists. Your and elitist with your head in a book not the real world. Stay in academia and do not venture out into the real world as I doubt you could not handle the truth. There is evil in the world, some of the worst evils come from educated elitists.
    Common folk have common sense, elitists have ideology and theories.
    We have God you have government. I know who I trust.
    God, Glock and myself. powder is dry.

  • Granny

    Sorry Auntie Madder – the Internet ID bomb has been up since last night. Nothing to do with the attempted assassination in Arizona.

  • #112 and 131 Henry Hawkins – Thank you for your analysis. These were my conclusions also. However, as you can see, no one here is much interested in reason. Bashing left, right, center, Tea Party, and Sarah Palin and arguing whether or not the NAZI party was a socialist organ is all consuming.

    I’ve a schizophrenic cousin who explained all of his delusions as Satan controlling him. He was shot six time by police, survived, and explained he saw Satan and demons about to take him to hell when it was only the police come to the filthy alley to take him to a hospital for help.

    Today we saw a tragedy occur in Tucson. Left nor right, Republican nor Democrat, Tea Party nor any other group was responsible. One very sick man tried to cure his ills by harming others.

  • “He burns a U.S. flag. A common righty thingy.”

    Right-wing militia nuts have been known to burn flags.

    The point is to start running around screaming HES A LEFTY KOSSACK!!11!1 is absurd when he’s ranting about the gold standard and the US Constitution and showing off his guns on his MySpace page, yes?

  • bg

    ++

    i think Loughner was at the opposite end of Obama’s spectrum..

    why is it that the most CRAZY DESPOTS of the
    world have been defined as being BRILLIANT??

    ==

  • StrangernFiction

    “Conservatives and liberals are equally at risk for any mental disorder….”

    Henry, liberalism IS a mental disorder.

  • markie58

    Clearly another violent crime by the left. A Judge who had been threatened by pro illegal immigration organizations and an elected official who wanted to stop illegal immigration and strengthen the borders attacked by a conservative?? I don’t think so. The Obama/Holder hate suit against Arizona caused this!!

  • gorgo

    “Well that didn’t take long, news report saying Obama wants internet I.D’s. for every American. More Socialist control from our God in Chief. Given how quick he dropped this bomb you might ask was Rep. Giffords was a sacrificial lamb for the move and a gift to Pelosi.”

    I’m convinced things like that happen — big, flashy but irrelevant news items appear and get wall to wall coverage to distract everyone from something else that’s barely mentioned but VITALLY important — but this internet ID story was out this morning at least, possibly yesterday.

  • No Man

    Iraq!?!?!?!

    The quick-easy formula for answering half-wit $cumbags like echo: Make them provide evidence, i.e., facts, to back up their calumnies.

    Teapartiers disagree with their nightmarish libtard agenda so they are EVIL.

    There are dozens cases of ACORN/SEIU thugs attacking tea party people. Name one case where a right wing crook attacked any libtard. Obama tells his acolytes to bring guns and attack their opponents. Look that up.

    #113: List all the abortion docs that were murdered within three months of killing their first unborn baby. List one abortion doc who was forcibly stopped in 2010. If your moronic lie were true, there would be no one killing unborn babies, you moronic POS.

  • bg

    ++

    Blue Texan #169

    wow, you birds of feather are coming out of the woodwork today..

    too funny, but scary at the same time..

    ==

  • Rock

    #
    #163 January 8, 2011 at 4:53 pm
    AuntieMadder commented

    They “never let a good crisis go to waste.”

    Even if they have to manufacture them:(

  • Sandy

    Mad Hatter — Its the media that feels a need to blame Republicans. Its how Washington works today, make Republicans guilty so they will compromise with Obama for the greater good blah blah blah.

  • gorgo

    “why is it that the most CRAZY DESPOTS of the world have been defined as being BRILLIANT??”

    Sometimes, crazy people do the defining, that’s why.

  • Mad Hatter

    His ramblings, and his postings of those YouTube videos is only a defense lawyers dream come true. His lawyer will use the “he’s not competent enough to stand trial”, or the old “mentally insane’ plea.

    Yet, he had his wits about himself where he could operate a computer, and plan out a murder plot against innocent people. Yes, it was planned out. He posted this on his facebook account earlier today.

    From the AP

    The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious “Goodbye friends” message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to “Please don’t be mad at me.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

    Get ready for the wall to wall media coverage of his trial. Ugh!

  • Jared Loughner was “Left-Wing Radical Conspiracy-theorist Pot-Head” according to his former classmate and band partner Caitie Parker in her tweets.

  • Chisum

    Blue Texan,

    I hope you didn’t hurt yourself with that leap.

  • Bogdan from Australia

    To leftist trolls: Who has burned Sarah Palin’s church in Wasilla?

  • Mad Hatter

    Ahhh ok, gotcha Sandy. I misread your earlier post.

  • bg

    ++

    Granny #156

    eh, he would have changed the subject anyways..

    think i might take a day or two off, wait until the moonbat frenzy ebbs..

    unbelievable what they think they know, never mind what they don’t.. 🙁

    ==

  • markie58

    Look at the backgrounds of the victims. This Judge was a BUSH appointee who had a record of ruling AGAINST illegal immigrant nuisance cases!! Giffords was a moderate who turned more to the right to win re-election. She wanted to strengthen and enforce immigration law and had advocated building the wall. She frequently spoke out against Obama and his Chicago-mob cronies after they defunded border protection.

  • AuntieMadder

    Granny commented:
    “Sorry Auntie Madder – the Internet ID bomb has been up since last night. Nothing to do with the attempted assassination in Arizona.”

    Thanks, Granny. Gorgo’s also trying to straighten us out on that one. Good luck to you both. I’ve been corrected and so I won’t be repeating it, but once rumors like this one get started, stopping them is danged near impossible. I wish I hadn’t done my part in spreading it.

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  • retire05

    Blue Texan? What the hell is a “blue” Texan? Would you be one of those Travis County left wingers who are now suicidal because Texas is becoming even more red that it was before? Maybe a “Little Doggie for Doggett” kind of guy?

    But if you mean “blue” as in Democrat, I guess you are blue since in Texas you are an endanged species.

    Perhaps you could give us an example (save for your lame “militia’ example) of conservatives burning the United States flag?

  • Chisum

    #181 January 8, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    Bogdan from Australia commented:

    To leftist trolls: Who has burned Sarah Palin’s church in Wasilla?

    =========================================

    Ask Blue Texan. He’ll probably claim that far-right militias have been known to burn churches. And there you are.

  • gorgo

    Auntie,

    Don’t feel bad. It could still be cover for distraction.

  • Edouard

    #169 Blue Texan

    ^ ^ ^ Here’s another one venting his deplorable foregone conclusions.

    Look Texan, read the whole thread before you go popping off with your half-cocked Tea Party insinuations. His neo-anarchist “philosophy” is at best inconsistent and muddled.

    Someone who likes to watch the US flag get torched, refuses to trust in God, and was called a leftist by an acquaintance doesn’t really fit into your bigoted conclusions

  • wanumba

    #88 January 8, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    echo commented:
    Folks,
    This guy is what is known as a depraved theist. Who knows what kind of god he prays to?
    I have no idea what his political motivation is, but I am reading posts herein that lack critical thinking
    …………………………….

    This is a simple comments section on a blog, people talking amongst themselves as they try to find out what really happened, and we all want to know WHY. Our high-tech media sucks at reporting actual news, so we all have to sit around and wade through mishmash crap, trying to glean the truth from the rubbish.

    But before anyone could frame a thought about it, an AZ state elected Democrat Rep. Linda Lopez (D) used her political position and privileged access to network news to blame the tea party and Lopez also said the shooter was an Afghanistan War veteran. Based on what?

    Lopez, without any regard for the truth, just came out on not local, but the national news making unsubstantiated statements that will PREJUDICE the public against the Tea Party and our veterans.

    One is just chatter that goes nowhere, the other is incitement during a very traumatic and disturbing event. That’s what people are concerned about.

  • bg

    ++

    Mad Hatte #179

    that reminds me, no “Simpson” or “Peterson” etc.. trial coverage
    of the “beheading”, poor Muhammadan, he. was. abused. gah!!

    and you didn’t ask, but imo, that’s blatant discrimination.. /sarc/

    ==

  • Henry Hawkins

    gorgo: “I agree with all you wrote but I thought (forgive my cynicism) the point of mental illness labels was to REMOVE responsibility for such actions?”

    That is 100%, a topic for later.

    Here’s what I’m saying – The minute you determine that a crazy act was committed by someone who is clearly exhibiting severe symptoms of a mental disorder, you can right there stop looking for sensible reasons for why he committed it.

    Here’s the Occam’s Razor take: He’s decompensating mentally with schizophrenia, paranoid type. He’s developed a delusion that the government is controlling his mind. He sees in the local media that a US Congresswoman is appearing in public locally. To him, she’s a representative of the government that is controlling his mind – the root cause of all his problems. He decides that now is the time he defends himself. He goes to the location, identifies the government person, and starts shooting.

    Giffords is a right-leaning Blue Dog Democrat well-liked by Republicans because of her bipartisanship and reasonableness. Please explain exactly what political position stands in direct opposition to that. The left? The right?

    To identify the guy as insane and then to say it was his politics that prompted the shooting strikes me as less than sane in itself.

    I strongly discourage attaching political meaning to this act, no matter which side of the political canyon one stands.

  • Henry Hawkins

    100% wrong (correction to #193)

  • Here are screen grabs of his myspace posts. http://cybersherpa.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-myspace-screengrabs.html

    Things like “Wow, I’m glad I didn’t kill myself. I’ll see you on national tv. This is foreshadowing” and “I dont feel good: I’m ready to kill a police officer. I can say it”.

  • bg

    ++

    wanumba #191

    yes, facts are one thing, opinions are another..

    re: [Lopez, without any regard for the truth, just came out on not local, but the national news making unsubstantiated statements that will PREJUDICE the public against the Tea Party and our veterans.]

    Amen wanumba, how could they purposefully
    say that, more important, why would they??

    ==

  • Pingback: UPDATE: Rep. Giffords Expected to Recover from Deranged Leftist Jared Loughner’s Rampage | Conservatives for America()

  • Gandalf

    Elizabeth McGrath – When all the facts are known it will be clear that this screwed up kid is a lefty. The responsilility for this is clearly on the LEFT.

  • Rock

    #167 January 8, 2011 at 4:55 pm
    Granny commented:

    Sorry Auntie Madder – the Internet ID bomb has been up since last night. Nothing to do with the attempted assassination in Arizona.

    Granny not a error on Auntie Madder part, my earlier post prompted hers. Missed the ID Bomb last night, but hey even Libs plan ahead so who knows.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Jeez. I take a little afternoon nap, and miss all hell breaking loose.

  • markie58

    Linda Lopez is contacting every news outlet she can find and selling herself as a “dear friend” of Congresswoman Giffords. In fact, Giffords REFUSED to endorse Lopez the last time she ran for office because Lopez is a LaRAZA funded poverty pimp.

  • vote for pedro

    echo commented:

    Rachelle.
    I have read 4 books about the JFK assassination

    Oh please, list the title of the books. This will make my day!

  • AuntieMadder

    Reaganite Republican, thank you for sharing the good news that Rep Giffords is expected to make a full recovery. I’m going to your site now to read more about Gifford’s expected recovery.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Headlines from the Left:

    http://polurls.com/blue/

    Apparantly, this is all being spun to be Palin’s fault.

    This week could be a watershed.

  • bg

    ++

    Cybersherpa #196

    almost feel sorry for him.. 🙁

    he was definitely desperately in need of help..

    obvious no friends there for him either, unless they considered him “normal”,
    of which can be deduced from some of the obot posts, that is a possibility..

    ==

  • Granny commented:
    ss252 – you are way the HELL out of line. This is a nation of laws. Every time one of you idiots calls for a somebody to be strung up on live TV you make all the rest of us look worse than the leftie loonatics. Maybe you should just go back and crawl under a rock.

    The hell I am out of line, I am far from a radical…But the media will make this guy a martyr, Our pathetic Attorney General will be wishy washy ? Wouldnt it be better if we show these coooks that lights out when you commit a crime like this? Oh thats right GRANNY lets spend millions on a god damn trial for this piece of crap..

    As far as a “NATION OF LAWS” ? How come Obama,Holder, etc dont follow them?

    Dont give me your righteous horsecrap, you sound like a Bleeding Heart….

    This punk killed innocent people period…There isnt any grey area here….Now save us some money and make a example …

    My main point in case you care to know though? Was the media will spin this since the guy was a total leftist nut job…

  • I read three months worth of his mobile myspace posts before they were deleted, hours after the regular myspace page went down. I grabbed a number of screens and posted them online. Nothing talked about Giffords or war or politics/politicians. His most recent ones were all caps rants about grammar and currency and illiteracy.

    In Oct (I didn’t get to grab these) he mentions an incident at Pima College and how the “Pigs” didn’t stand up for his free speech. He talks about killing pigs, being on national tv, how nobody notices him, and of course, girls don’t notice him. Around December he seems to go off the rails. His last post – he “friended” a girl.

    http://www.cybersherpa.blogspot.com for Nov-today’s posts from his myspace page.

  • gorgo

    Hawkins:

    “To identify the guy as insane and then to say it was his politics that prompted the shooting strikes me as less than sane in itself.”

    Ah, so now I am the less than sane one. Got it. Thanks.

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  • Taqiyyotomist

    Henry: Liberalism is a mental disorder. So this guy had a couple of them.

  • ZiggY

    My prayers are with the victims and their family. Truly a horrible thing. What I have to say now might offend some people but it’s the truth and it always seems to hurt.

    Thank God this was a typical half-a$$ed leftist loon. They always do things half-a$$ed. If it had been a conservative who crossed this line and pulled the trigger then the congress woman wouldn’t have survived or even made it to surgery. If that offends you I am sorry, but truly thank God we aren’t violet and we don’t do even 10% of what these leftist do.

    Btw the left are blaming the Tea Party and Sarah Palin for this right now. Jane Fonda tweeted the talking points for MSNBC for the next few weeks even when the details come out that this is a registered Democrat and hardcore Marxist just like the president.

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  • bg

    ++

    gorgo #210

    have a funny feeling you’d agree if you read the following in unison per se..

    Henry Hawkins #195

    [To identify the guy as insane and then to say it was his politics
    that prompted the shooting strikes me as less than sane in itself.

    I strongly discourage attaching political meaning to this act,
    no matter which side of the political canyon one stands.]

    ==

  • “Look Texan, read the whole thread before you go popping off with your half-cocked Tea Party insinuations.”

    I’m not making insinuations, I’m responding to the headline of this post which identifies the shooter as a LEFT-WINGER!11!1!!!

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I noticed that echo still hasn’t provided a list of all the right-wingers that have done violence in the past ten years.

    Still looking, echo?

  • bg

    ++

    hah, Obama found time to comment.. ALL the other crap that has
    gone down, crickets.. this must be another “teaching momet”.. 😐

    ==

  • Pingback: DISGRACE: Krugman Blames GOP For “Attempted Assassination” Today (Before We Found Out He’s a Leftwinger) | The Gateway Pundit()

  • @217

    I see you’ve forgotten about the right-wing Knoxville terrorist already.

    http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/07/a_whole_lotta_ugly_in_church_s.html

    “According to the News-Sentinel, Knoxville police department investigator Steve Still wrote in the search warrant that Jim David Adkisson, the man who was arrested in the rampage, went to the church “because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets.”

    “Adkisson, who had served in the military, said “that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement he would then target those that had voted them in office,” the search warrant states. Among the items seized from Adkisson’s house were three books: “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television commentator Bill O’Reilly; “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder,” by radio personality Michael Savage; and “Let Freedom Ring,” by political pundit Sean Hannity.”

  • the democratic party and their cohorts in american tass will do everything in their power to pin this on their political enemies. just like the clintons did with the oklahoma city bombing. we don’t have to let them do it. they don’t have a media monopoly anymore. if they are going to use guilt by association there is a lot more blood on the hands of liberal america than on the hands of conservative america.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Okay, Blue. That’s one.

  • Chisum

    Blue Texan,

    Love the name of your blog…instaputz.

    Not envious or anything, are you?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I’m not going to make this a game, Blue.

    If I did, I could list ten instances of lefty violence for every one of your righties.

    Maybe even twenty. Just about anybody here could, as well.

  • Chisum

    Hey, since the Congresswoman was shot while working will they characterize this incident as “workplace violence” like they did the the Ft. Hood shooting.

  • bg

    ++

    Blue Texan #216

    re: [I’m responding to the headline of this post which
    identifies the shooter as a LEFT-WINGER!11!1!!!]

    AZ SHOOTER: Left-Winger JARED LOUGHNER – He Likes Watching US Flags Burn & Favorite Book is Communist Manifesto
    Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, January 8, 2011, 2:58 PM

    He is definitely NOT a tea partier….
    Killler identified: Jared Loughner. He is 22. Born September 1988.

    Here’s a photo of Jared at a book fair.

    He was reportedly left-wing, quite liberal.

    ** His favorite books: Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf

    10 Patients- 1 has died. Several – Five are in critical condition.
    The Congresswoman is in critical condition. She was shot in the head one time.
    Channel 9 WSYR reported:

    Congressional officials say an aide to Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has died after an attack in Tucson, Arizona.

    A hospital official there says the congresswoman herself is alive but in critical condition after being shot in the head.

    The AP reports that the gunman is identified as Jared Laughner; he is in custody.

    From Jared’s YouTube account.
    His name is spelled Loughner:

    I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
    Interests:
    My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
    Movies:
    (*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
    Music:
    Pass me the strings!
    Books:
    I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

    In this favorite video at his YouTube account the US flag is torched.
    He’s definitely not a tea partier.

    MORE: Hennessey’s View says Loughner left a video.

    The rambling video talks about terrorism…

    Nuts.

    Here’s another screen grab from his video:

    The dude is definitely nuts.

    UPDATE: These tweets are from someone who knows left-winger Loughner:

    show me where..

    ==

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #221, re: Clinton and OKC

    Jayna Davis sure got the national shaft, that’s for sure. All for Reno’s politics.

  • @222

    Guess you’ve forgotten about the white supremacist, Neo-Nazi and Freeper who shot up the Holocaust Museum.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/06/10/2009-06-10_holocaust_museum_shooter_james_von_brunns_exwife_says_his_racism_ate_him_alive.html

    Need more?

  • Mike Davies

    Check out the lunatics website http://www.jaredlloughner.com

  • Taqiyyotomist

    In fact, I still think that the investigation into the OKC bombing should be re-opened. Reno and Clinton stopped that investigation dead cold, and the MSM followed suit. They got just as far into the investigation as they needed at the time….and lefties still reference that as a Christian Rightwinger bombing, to this very day….when the perps were neither, except in the mentally-deranged minds of the left, where “white” and “has a gun” equals Christian Rightwinger. Damn all the evidence, stop the investigation — it was a Christian Rightwinger.

    Total bulls&&&.

  • “In fact, I still think that the investigation into the OKC bombing should be re-opened.”

    Hilarious.

    I’m done here. Rest my case.

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  • Taqiyyotomist

    Mike, how long has that domain been in existance?

    Blue, I don’t “need” more, but feel free to keep posting them. I’ll keep count. When you say “Ok, I’m done.” then I’ll give you ten times more lefties perpetrating violence.

    YOU ARE AT TWO.

  • bg

    ++

    Blue Texan #228

    since when are white supremacists right wing conservatives??

    ==

  • Ginger

    Henry Hawkins

    Burning the flag in an angry persons heart is their way of showing their hate for America. Right? The guy on Twitter that knew him in 07 said he was on drugs! My question is….. did the drugs have anything to do with his mental state or is schizophrenia a mental that you are born with?

  • Francis

    Are some of you sick individuals actually trying to score political points on the DEATH of 6 individuals and a mass shooting? How absolutely reprehensible.

    The man is a schizo. Nothing he says is relevant. If anything, he’s nihilistic/anarchist/libertarian. He’s got some right wing and left wing traits. It’s irrelevant, because guess what, he’s CRAZY.

    People have died. People are in the hospital and people are grieving. Show some DECENCY towards the deceased.

  • bg

    ++

    Taqiyyotomist #233

    [He’s a twisted kook with a toxic hatred for Jews and
    blacks who vowed to go out “with his boots on.”]

    what are you talking about, you give him 2??

    check out # 234 please..

    look, like one of Obama’s fav ‘brilliant leaders’, Hitler
    claimed to be a Christian, did that make him one??

    ==

  • bg

    ++

    Francis #236

    not me, just trying to keep the factual record straight..

    ==

  • Miguel

    Funny how the liberal media jumps on any thought that it might be someone from the right but when it’s a left wing loon who fashions himself a Marxist and a flag burner, not much is said about him.

  • ConMan

    Saw this description (way down) in a MSNBC story:

    “A 22-year-old woman in Arizona, Caitie Parker, claimed on her Twitter feed that she went to high school and college with the gunman, and was in a band with him. She described his politics in the past as “left wing, quite liberal, & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.” She also described him as having a lot of friends “until he got alcohol poisoning in ’06” and dropped out of school. “Mainly loner very philosophical.”

  • squeaky

    [Self-medication is a term used to describe the use of drugs (including alcohol) or other self-soothing forms of behavior to treat untreated and often undiagnosed mental distress, stress and anxiety[1], including mental illnesses and/or psychological trauma.[2][3]]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-medicate

  • Militant Conservative

    #194 January 8, 2011 at 5:12 pm
    Henry Hawkins commented:

    Your still a political novice here. Your diagnosis may be correct but there are but three motivations of man. Love,Money, and Power. What was this man’s motivation?????? Love, i think not. Money, nope none had. Power, ahhhhhhh the motivation of many on the left and right. Purely human motivation. Then was he crazy?????? I don’t think so. I think he was a willing tool of the left. A usefull idiot. Further the cause but a throw away for the cause. Get it. We are cattle to the powers that be. Soon the ideaology and freedom will clash.

    As for the Blue Texan. Yup I know you, your the traitor to the constitution. Your probably a trasplant to Texas or a Austin based liberal education weenie. No respect for you here. I am a displaced Texan in the state of Georgia. I know your type, internet whore, but absolute puss in real life. Grow a pair and join the rest of us living in the real world. powder is dry.

  • v

    I don’t care which side he is on…
    the retarded toting of guns, using crosshairs, reload and the like is irresponsible…
    Sorry, no one can deny that.

  • Ginger

    I heard on Fox that the big shot in the FBI is being sent to control the investigation. The man on Fox said it was strange because that has never happened before. My suspicious mind is saying why and what is he going to cover up?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #237 bg

    My faux pas (that’s FOE-PAHS, lefties. It’s a literary and internet and I.Q. ***FAIL*** when you call FoxNews “Faux News”. It sounds stupid, it makes you look like a buffoon. Moreso than you lefties usually do….but I digress…).

    Indeed, thanks for pointing that out.

    I’ll take that one and put it in my list, Blue! Thanks for the unneeded assist!

    You are at ONE. Keep hunting for another one. By the end of this easter-egg hunt, you might have five. And I could EASILY come up with fifty instances of lefty violence. To be fair, when a lefty mob attacks one person and kicks them in the head repeatedly, I’ll only count that as ONE, not the number of people in the lefty mob. Similarly, when a mob of SEIU goons puts a black man in the hospital for being a non-leftwinger, while calling him a n***er repeatedly, I won’t count all the leftist union thugs, but I’ll just, to be fair, count it as one incident.

    Yep, you’re at one.

  • Blue Sun

    Ah, the spinmeisters are hard at work. Louchner is, by his own irrational writings and videos on u-tube is a raving psychotic, concerned about what he calls ‘currency’ and ‘conscience dreaming’ (whatever that is. In his list of favorite books, he lists:

    Brave New World – Aldous Huxley

    Animal Farm – Aldous Huxley

    The Wizard of Oz – L. Frank Baum

    Aesop Fables – Aesop

    The Odyssey – Homer

    Alice’s Adventures into Wonderland – Lewis Carroll

    Fahrenheit 451 – Ray Bradbury

    Peter Pan – J. M. Barrie

    To Kill A Mockingbird – Harper Lee

    We The Living – Ayn Rand

    Phantom Tollbooth – Norton Juster (illustrated by Jules Feiffer)

    One Flew Over the Cukoo’s Nest – Ken Kesey

    Pulp – apparently the hard-boiled detective novel by Charles Bukowski

    Through The Looking Glass – Lewis Carroll

    The Communist Manifesto – Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels

    Siddhartha – Hermann Hesse – a novel set in the time of Buddha, in which a Brahman follows the Buddhist path of enlightenment and becomes one with Buddha – whose real name was Siddhartha Gautema.

    The Old Man And The Sea – Ernest Hemmingway

    Gulliver’s Travels – Jonathan Swift

    Mein Kampf – Adolf Hitler

    The Republic – Plato – a Socratic dialog of Justice and the Ideal State (in which he argues that oligarchy, tyranny, and democracy can sustain themselves).

    Meno – Plato – another Socratic dialog, this one dealing with human virtue.

    You can choose to cherrypick the Communist Manifesto to ‘prove’ your need to paint him as a left-winger, or Mein Kampf to paint him as a right-wing fascist, or Ayn Rand’s We The Living to paint him as a right-wing libertarian anarcho-capitalist, or Plato to paint him as a classicist in the vein of Leo Strauss (the patron philosopher of the Neoconservative Movement), or Peter Pan/Alice in Wonderland/Alice’s Adventures Underground/

  • Puggg

    I’ve had some time to absorb all the news and analysis. I don’t think the suspect is a left-winger, a right-winger, or very serious at all about politics. Yes, it’s easy for us right wingers to take his left-wing statements out of context, and it’s easy for left-wingers like “Blue Texan” to take his right-wing statements out of context. (BTW, Blue Texan, re your post 169 — Never AMERICAN flags, that I know of. But that still doesn’t mean this suspect is a doctrinaire left-winger.)

    I notice that he seems to be a big fan of dystopian and dictatorial literature. That’s the only thing I can glean from this. Just because he favorites the Communist Manifesto doesn’t make him a Kos-type lefty, and just because he favors Mein Kampf doesn’t make him and extreme righty. What is weird is that he likes both, and that probably has to do with some sort of mental psychosis or fetish for power and control, not a left-right ideological paradigm.

    I happen to think that he was just someone who wanted to make an infamous name for himself. And that he did — He’ll probably be only one of very few people who will get the Federal death penalty.

    I also think that you’ll find prescription psychotropic drugs in his background.

    Note I’m using “the suspect” and not his real name. If he was trolling for eternal infamy, then I’m not going to give him his wish, even though most of the rest of you already have.

    One more thing: Giffords’s “moderation” is being overplayed. She’s pretty much a standard left-of-center Congressional Democrat, perhaps slightly to the right of the mainstream of her own party’s House caucus. I think there’s a tendency for us right wingers to overplay her moderation in order to deflect criticism from the left because of today. However, the truth is the truth. She’s not really that moderate, and someone didn’t try to assassinate her for right-wing ends.

    Also, I thought it was a mistake all along for Sarah Palin to use targets in that much-ballyhooed map of hers, especially since Giffords was someone she was hoping would be replaced. However, I don’t think it matters, because I think when she resigned as Governor, that that meant she was not going to run for the Presidency ever; she had already made that calculation that day. What she’s doing now is just too lucrative and relatively safe — She’s personally better off not being President than being President.

  • Frosty

    His facebook is all tea party support stuff.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    And we don’t really know how many lefty anarchist goons attacked and beat the crap out of Republican aide Ailee Bautsch and her boyfriend, breaking her bones, in New Orleans a few months ago, so that would be a ONE.

    And the marine and his wife who were attacked by close to three hundred left-wing black entitlement liberal not-yet-Democrats the other day in FL? That’s just one, despite the crowd of leftist, racist kids who knocked her out probably being close to three hundred.

    Just to be fair.

  • Puggg

    231 BT:

    230 is right. I think the trail will lead straight to Ramzi Yousef. Luckily, we know where he is.

  • Chisum

    v,

    How do you feel about a politician that tells his supporters :

    “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”

    and

    ‘ARGUE AND GET IN THEIR FACE’

    ????????????

  • huh

    incredible. Now he’s a leftist. Right wing disown their own when caught red-handed.

  • Ginger

    I call him a Kenyan punk/fraud/ B

  • John

    I was watching his YT videos and can conclude that he is mad. Typical of The Nonsensical Ravings of a Lunatic Mind.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Frosty:

    Say what?

    Re: party-allegience or afilliation or lean-towards:

    The reason it is important to many of us here at GP is that the Leftist MSM and the Leftist government are going to work in concert to make the country believe that this was the act of a Rightwinger, acting according to Rightwinger beliefs. This needs to be countered, because I, for one, don’t want to see the inside of a GODDAMN BOXCAR anytime soon.

    Get it, all you “it doesn’t matter” f&&&ing idiots??!

    Don’t you have a damn clue what the progs are capable of? Ever read any of Science Czar John Holdren’s writings? Ever read about the FBI informant testimony on the Weathermen, where they sat around discussing ways to “eliminate” a quarter of the U.S. population? Ever heard of Treblinka?

    It absolutely does matter where this mofo stood politically, if only to counter the coming wave of “He was a Rightwinger doing rightwing things acting on the suggestive talk of other rightwingers and SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THAT!” propaganda that is due to arrive tomorrow on every gullible idiot’s television in America.

    It also seems to be only the lefties who are saying “It doesn’t matter whether he was right or left,” but they only started saying that AS SOON as it was discovered that he might have NOT been a rightwinger after all. Oh, NOW it doesn’t matter. Fing idiots, all of them.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #250

    I’m guessing that BlueTexan has never even heard the name Jayna Davis.

    Television-brainwashed through and through. Whatever the guy with “expert” under his head on the screen says is true.

  • #248 January 8, 2011 at 6:34 pm
    Frosty commented:
    His facebook is all tea party support stuff

    Loughner didn’t have a FB page. Those that are being referenced are fakes. I saw an earlier FB page that showed he was a leftist of the Daily Kos vein. I found another that had been created only 6 minutes before I found it.

  • bg

    ++

    my bottom line:

    when it comes to CRAZY, i truly don’t think left or right matters..

    unfortunately, to the progressive green propagandist
    press it’s probably the ONLY thing that does.. *sigh*

    ==

  • bg

    ++

    Frosty #248

    re: [His facebook is all tea party support stuff]

    rotflmbo!!

    if that were even remotely true, it would be on
    every station in the nation every five minutes!!

    good grief, wouldn’t the MFM adore that, why they’d be back in Oz..

    ==

  • David Thompson

    Can we stop associating the National SOCIALISTS of Germany with right-wing conservatism?! They believe in total state control of the individual and the economy. The only difference between them and the Soviet communists was that they based their Utopia on the German nation (national socialists) whereas the Soviets based theirs on class (they ended up with 15 different nations in their union so they had to have an internationalist perspective). The left-wing has fostered this misconception and we need to reject it NOW.

  • John Bryans Fontaine

    You right wing Conservatives are becoming ever more comically desperate as more and more reports extensively prove that Jarard Loughner is a right-wing, white former vet who has a tea party reverence of the Constitution, is anti-Government and wants to return to the gold standard. One of his favorite books is Mein Kampf and Giffords is Jewish. Laughner is Tim McVeigh TNG.

    And if he is a a Liberal, why would he shoot a pol who’s politics almost match his own : http://www.issues2000.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm

    Keith Oberman contributed to her campaign, too. So no one is going to believe your RANK LIES about Giffords being a Conservative.

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  • bg

    ++

    huh #252

    new at this much??

    ==

  • Laury

    Just reading these posts gives credence to why our country is in such deep trouble. The entrenched partisanship that has overtaken this country has done more to impede progress than any one President, political party, or interest group. Partisan politics have become so bitter, toxic and divisive that neither party has any interest in cooperating with the other even when the national interest demands it. Both parties have become so beholden to their political bases who have become bitterly antagonistic, professing loyalty to widely divergent cultural values. The hyper-partisan bickering that has hijacked public policy continues to be evident in forums such as this one where there are rants from both side, each blaming the other for a myriad of problems. Perhaps, we should look inwardly instead of constantly blaming the other side.

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  • RR

    Amazing…. many people here are quite clueless of history as is the author of this post.

    Clearly, this guy was mentally unstable and something set him off. Anti-government, psychotic, gold lover??…. sounds like someone else we all know.

    Also… Mein Kampf was written by a far-right Fascist who hated socialism and another of his cited books was right-winger Ayn Rand’s “We The Living”.

    The guy was a crazy anti-government zealot with a fixation on currency and gold. He would make a great spokesman for Goldline.

  • Puggg

    Troll #261,

    The ONLY think you’re right about is that Giffords isn’t a conservative, much less a moderate, and that Olbermann giving her money pretty much proves it.

    There are rumors that the suspect is also Jewish, but I have no confirmation either way, and it’s not germane either way.

  • Ginger

    I wish that I could turn into the “Incredible Hulk” and beat the hell out of all of the socialist/ communist pigs.

    That being said…. my heart crys for that precious nine year old child that lost her life because of a *&%$#@%&&%##^&*((&$ My heart goes out to each and every one of that precious child loved ones and friends.

    I am sick of the media only focusing on the republican/democrat congress woman!

  • Puggg

    Troll #266: Why would a notorious anti-Semitic dictator like a Jewish libertarian?

  • bg

    ++

    John Bryans Fontaine #261

    wow, you sure know your facts huh..

    oh wait, what’s this..

    “if he is a a Liberal”

    aww, isn’t that cute, hedging your mealy mouthed
    tirade i see, not so sure after all.. but whatever..

    read it & weep..

    ==

  • Chisum

    #261 John Bryans Fontaine,

    Why do you think the Daily Kos felt the need to TARGET (their word) Giffords?

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/54168

  • J Walter Ramsey

    derrick grady your an idiot, fact.

  • Puggg

    Troll #266: Mein Kampf was written in 1925, and We The Living was written in 1936. Hitler couldn’t have cited the latter in MK. Now he might have cited a thing or two from WtL after it was published, mainly as a matter of “broken clock is right twice a day” thing to rile Germans against Russians.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    bg

    “when it comes to CRAZY, i truly don’t think left or right matters..

    unfortunately, to the progressive green propagandist
    press it’s probably the ONLY thing that does.. *sigh*”

    Which is why it has to matter to us, the target of this large-scale character assassination. A defense has to be mounted, somehow. Or we just let the MSM and the government run with their “rightwing” angle, roughshod over the people.

  • mcc

    Who can forget what Grathwohl witnessed when he went undercover:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWMIwziGrAQ

    How’s 25 million? The ones who won’t be reeducated (in centers they’d set up in the southwest, btw)…Oh, I know they were just talking about the logistics of it…but as Grathwohl said, “They were dead serious.”

    The Lefties – just one or two? “…about 25 of them, most with graduate degrees from Columbia and other well-known education centers…”

    Oh, and yeah, they were members of The Weather Underground.

  • Puggg

    271: I still don’t take that as evidence of Giffords being moderate, I take that as proof that most Kossacks are leftist extremists. Though one did, in a rare fit of sanity for the Kos types, lash out at the SPLC, albeit for leftist motivations.

  • RR

    @Puggg

    I’m a troll because I’m pointing out the facts??

    So many people on the right are completely clueless about history, economic systems and political philosophy. Most the people who’ve been screaming about socialism and communism over the past two years have little clue what these words really mean. Hitler was no lefty, nor was Ayn Rand.

    It seems to me that the guy was mentally ill, but something set him off. Worda have consequences and some divisive pundits make a living stirring the pot.

  • David Thompson

    Troll #266: Yea, Hitler really hated socialism… that’s why he called his movement National Socialism. What part of socialism do you not understand, you feckin’ idiot!

  • Chisum

    Puggg,

    My point was that Kos targeted Giffords. Palin is being criticized for using that term.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    RR you’re not a troll. You’re just wrong. Hitler was no lefty? Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Whatever your profs tell you.

  • RR

    @Pugg – The psychotic assassin cited Ayn Rand’s book. Get a clue.

  • Chisum

    #266 January 8, 2011 at 6:58 pm (Edit)
    RR commented:

    Amazing…. many people here are quite clueless of history as is the author of this post.

    Clearly, this guy was mentally unstable and something set him off. Anti-government, psychotic, gold lover??…. sounds like someone else we all know.

    Also… Mein Kampf was written by a far-right Fascist who hated socialism and another of his cited books was right-winger Ayn Rand’s “We The Living”.

    =======================================================

    You are the clueless one.

    http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/objectivism/socfasc.html

  • Puggg

    277: If he was that mentally ill, then anything could have set him off, and not for logical reasons. Insane minds think insane thoughts and react insanely to cues and words and phrases, in ways that sane people don’t act. For all we know, a branch could have fallen from a tree in a bizarre way at a bizarre time today in Tucson. Or he might have finished Al Gore’s environmental books. Or he might have happened upon a Michael Medved YouTube video. Point is, it’s not the tree’s, Gore’s or Medved’s fault for what an insane brain does.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    The 25 Points of the National Socialist German Workers Party Platform.

    [Below is the 25 of the NSDAP Program – This is basically the National Socialist German Workers Party Platform. It included measures that in effect would redistribute income and war profits, profit-sharing with large industries, nationalization of trusts, extensive development of old-age pension (just like FDRs Social Security Program), and free education. Clearly this demonstrates Hitler was indeed a left winger and here is startling proof.]

    http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/

    Educate yourself, RR. You may think you already have, and that you cannot be further taught (and that may be true, depending on the steadfastness of your beliefs), but there is a lot of history about which you are SO obviously unaware.

  • concreteblue

    Don’t forget the bricks and shots through Dems offices after health care reform was passed ….encouraged by Riech-wing nuts……

  • bg

    ++

    re: #270

    allow me spell it out for the obviously Lying Linda Lopez:

    Introduction: Jared Loughner

    December 15, 2010

    [Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in
    Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before tests.

    Jared Loughner is a United States military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.

    Therefore, Jared Loughner is recieving one mini bible before tests.

    I didn’t write a belief on my Army application,
    and the recruiter wrote on the application, NONE.]

    ==

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Hitler was a Socialist
    Hitler’s Anti-Tobacco Campaign
    Hitler’s Animal Rights Campaign
    Hitler’s Persecution of the Christian Churches
    Nazi Gun Control
    Hitler Pro-Abortion
    Hitler’s Leftist Economic Policies
    Homosexuality in the Nazi Party
    Hitler’s Euthanasia Initiative
    Fascism is Leftist
    Nazism and Education
    Some Nazi Posters
    Kangas Myths
    Antisemitism backgrounder

    All available at my last link.

    All leftist.

    Every damn thing he stood for is still being stood for by lefties nationwide in America. ALL OF IT. Anyone who regurgitates what they were taught by their leftist college profs is just wrong, and is nothing but a parrot.

  • bg

    ++

    concreteblue #285

    uh, anyone ever tell you that opinions facts do not make??

    honest, it’s true, as a matter of fact (not an opinion)
    they are quite different, look them up why don’t you,
    and see for yourself..

    ==

  • Joe

    So, to 261 & 266:

    1. Flag burning = right-wing
    2. Atheism is now a right-wing tenet
    3. Someone who actually knew him who stated that he was liberal actually translates to him being right-wing
    4. By stating that the constitution is meaningless what he actually meant was that he has reverence for the constitution
    5. The army stating that he never served actually means that he was a war vet (so, naturally, a crazy right-winger)
    6. A political philosophy closely aligned with socialism is actually right-wing
    7. It’s appropriate to hold up mein kampf as the crux of your argument while ignoring the communist manifesto, especially where fascism is about as congruent to conservative principles as communism
    8. Even though conservatives have always been staunch defenders of Israel and Jews, while the fathers of communism were unapologetically anti-semitic, means that in actuality, it’s the right-wing that is anti-semitic.

    Makes a lot of sense – you’ve certainly convinced me.

  • Puggg

    Troll 281: Then so much for him being anti-Semitic. To quote a Jewish author in an attempt to assassinate a Jewish member of Congress sorta makes it a wash. So you’re back to Square One.

    FAIL.

  • Puggg

    Troll 285: Shots fired, bricks thrown through McCain campaign offices in 2008. Sounds like hope and change to me.

  • RR

    I don’t have time to educate the misinformed about history, but Hitler was a Fascist and not a fan or Communism or Marxists.

    Regarding the National Socialism movement… It was proposed that the party be named the German Socialist Worker’s Party, but some objected to using the term “socialist” and the issue was settled by removing the term from the name, and it was agreed that the party be named the German Workers’ Party. To ease concerns among potential middle-class nationalist supporters, it was made clear that unlike Marxists, the party supported middle-class citizens, and that the party’s socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race.

  • “Yes, it’s easy for us right wingers to take his left-wing statements out of context, and it’s easy for left-wingers like “Blue Texan” to take his right-wing statements out of context.”

    You’ll note this was in response to the post’s title: “AZ SHOOTER: Left-Winger JARED LOUGHNER.”

  • Puggg

    289: I doubted that a 22-year old could be an Iraq or Afg vet through with his service. With stop loss and measures like that, even if he would have enlisted with parental permission on his 17th birthday, he could be deployed until 18th b-day, and I wouldn’t imagine the military being through with him at 22. Also, the Marines are seeing most of the ground combat action in Iraq and Afg, not the Army.

  • David Thompson

    Listen to Taqiyyotomist. He’s got it right about National Socialism.

  • Justin

    Wow, a gun-toting anti-government self-proclaimed constitutional scholar fanatic who tries to assassinate a Jewish Democrat is considered “left wing?” Even though he said he hates the current Government – you know, the Obama administration, the most left wing administration ever on the planet, according to the Teabags? This guy is just crazy. And I don’t mean in the colloquial sense, I mean he’s in his early 20s, has a disorganized thought pattern that he alone seems to understand – he’s probably schizophrenic. Left wingers shouldn’t be rushing to pin this on Palin or the right, but that doesn’t mean it’s OK for the right to do it to the left. Grow up.

  • Brandon Delaney

    RR, read this book and check back with us when you get your head out of your ass:

    http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841

  • Puggg

    Troll 293: Yes, it’s in response to both you and GP.

    To those of you classifying Hitler and the Nazi Party as “left wing,” that is only because the American political spectrum is historically different from that in continental Europe. Hitler/Nazis were rightists because the spectrum in Europe is nationalist vs universalist, while in America it tends to be economic libertarian vs redistribtionist/welfarist.

  • RR

    “Hitler was a lefty”… rightwing revisionist history at it’s finest.

  • Puggg

    Troll 296: Contradictory on your part. You say he’s disorganized and that he’s a doctrinaire right winger at the same time. That’s apart from your foul perverted mouth. But at least you ended it well.

  • Brandon Delaney

    Troll 299: No, the revisionist history started after WWII with Western left-wingers and their Soviet handlers. A conservative individual-rights based group would want to call itself the National Socialist German Workers Party… yea, right. The fascists and the communists were contending for the same bone. One was nationalistic and the other was internationalistic.

  • No Sillies

    He has favorite books? He volunteered at a book fair? Obviously he’s a reader, and therefore has an IQ. Nope, no way he could be a right-winger, then.

  • Laury

    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Intense feeling too often obscures the truth.
    Harry S. Truman

    Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Taqiyyotomist

    RR, #299 Sad. When the lie you’ve been told has been repeated so often that you believe that the revisionist history is the truth, and the truth is the revisionist history.

    You’ve been punked by your communist profs and authors. As such, we’ve all been punked.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    By us being punked, I mean, “blessed with gullible folks like yourself”, of course.

  • Puggg

    Troll 302: True ‘dat, with those great sales figures for all those left-of-center books being published these days.

  • Bad Wolf

    His favorite reading included Peter Pan and Gulliver’s Travels.
    An obvious Alex Jones head case.

    Probably listened to Glenn Beck too!
    Let’s ask him who his favorite network news is also.

  • bg

    ++

    RR #277

    re: [Hitler was no lefty]

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

    –Adolf Hitler

    (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

    yeah sure, but Obama still hearts him some Hitler, as did the Grand
    Mufti of Jerusalem
    , or perhaps it was the other way around, hm.m.m..

    and if you have some time.. this is quite an
    informative, not to mention interesting read..

    ==

  • RR

    @ Taqiyyotomist

    I could easily say the same of you…. quite gullible. I’m sure you believe everything Glenn Beck and Fox News tell you. Get back to me when you get that G.E.D.

  • Puggg

    Troll 309: I know why you want him to get a GED so badly — Probably because you need a tutor.

  • RR

    “The Fascists, like the Nazis, promoted a national rebirth of their country; opposed communism and liberalism; appealed to the working-class; opposed the Treaty of Versailles; and advocated the territorial expansion of their country.”

    Sounds so familiar.

  • Rachelle

    RR [#299] doubts that Hitler was a lefty. Evidently he isn’t familiar with history.

    The expression ‘Nazi’ came from the acronym NSDAP which is National SOCIALIST German WORKERS Party. Shirer [author of ‘Rise and Fall of the Third Reich’] was in Germany when the Nazi party came to power and he was surprised that so many members of the German Communist party joined the Nazis and fit right in. A lot of Hitler’s domestic policies were big government programs run from a central authority…typical leftist ideology. Also, before RR goes off on a Fascist tear, he should know that the Fascist name come from the Italian word for unions. Mussolini saw himself as a union progressive…leftist.

    The left has oceans of blood on its criminal hands.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    RR did you read the facts presented in my link at #284?

    No, you didn’t, did you? Because you, like most leftists, have such an open mind.

    Every single goddamn thing that Adolph stood for IS STILL being stood for by American leftists and global communists (same thing, pretty much).

    Name a position. Hated Christianity? Check. Check. Hated Jews? Check. Check. Hated smokers? Check. Check. Loved the nationalization of industry? Check. Check. Loved the redistribution of wealth? Check. Check.

    You can go down the list and both columns invariably get a “check.” But you don’t want to engage in actual comparison of platform points and philosophies; you want to parrot what you’ve been taught by leftists, in defense of leftism, and you will allow no facts to penetrate your brick-wall skull. Everything Adolph stood for is still, right now, being stood for by the American leftists, and opposed by rightists. But Hitler was a righty. Sure.

    There are none so blind as those who WILL not see. You don’t want to see.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    RR I threw my television out nearly ten years ago and never looked back.

    Do you turn yours on the moment your walk in the door?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Every damn organization on the freakin’ PLANET with the word “WORKERS” in its name is invariably a leftist organization, too.

    Nevermind the facts.

  • Puggg

    Troll 311: Sounds a little like Obama’s 2008 media buys in rust belt states. You know, appeal to the working class (even though he really doesn’t), oppose treaties (“let’s renegotiate NAFTA,” even though it really should be repudiated), advocated territorial expansion (“redeploy to Afghanistan”), national rebirth (“hope and change, this is the day the sea level started to recede, etc.”)

  • Master Shutoff

    HAHA, you Palin worshippers will say anything. Look at his videos: He loves guns. He’s in favor of the gold standard. He talks about unconstitutional stuff. He distrusts the government. Those are CONSERVATIVE issues!

    It doesn’t matter anyway. He’s unhinged and lots of people like Palin are filling the air with all kinds of violent rhetoric. Nuts latch on to things like that an act.

    You Republicans are trying to say with a straight face that you wouldn’t mind at all if someone made a map with crosshairs over someone you care about? You don’t even believe that yourself.

  • Pingback: Dem Congresswoman assassinated - Page 2 - G35Driver()

  • Scott

    In his “Final Thoughts” diatribe there are clues to his thinking that we need to bring to the forefront. I recognize the philosophical argument techniques from what he has written from PHI 102 class I once took. This is textbook. Here is a section of his diatribe.
    “If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
    The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.
    Thus, the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.”
    This sounds awfully like a anarchist rallying cry to me against business owners, the rich and government control. Remember, the left has anti gov extremists too. You see them at every G-20 summit destroying everything in sight. This would seem to agree with Caitie Parker’s posts about his left leanings.

  • Chisum

    RR is a MEDIA MATTERS TROLL!

    Y’all may as well save your breath. You are talking to a wall of stupidity.

    I’m ringing “THE BELL OF STUPIDITY”.

    Ding Dong, RR, it rings for you.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I wouldn’t even be able to pick Glenn Beck out of a police lineup. Have no damn clue what he even looks like. Someone at work the other day said something about some E-Carly thing on TV, and I gave her a blank stare. She was UTTERLY AMAZED and dismayed that I didn’t know who this was. What kind of FREAK doesn’t watch TV?

    LOL @ TV-watchers. We don’t all have your addiction.

  • Justin

    Puggggggggggggggggug

    I never said he was a “doctrinaire right winger.” I merely pointed out some of his clearly right-wing qualities to illustrate just how disingenuos it is to say this guy is a “left winger.” I don’t mean that he’s right or left wing, he’s just insane. No one should be trying to make political hay out of this, particularly without a full investigation and understanding of what led this man to do what he did. And please stop criticizing my “foul, pervereted mouth.” Your mom doesn’t know what she’d do without it. 🙂

  • Khan Krum

    This whole story makes me sick. Good Lord, can you believe that that little girl was killed, as well as all the other innocent people murdered and injured?! This is a tragedy and is just heartbreaking.

  • Puggg

    312: Hate to burst your bubble, but “Fascism” originates from “fasces,” the famous Roman bundle of rods. The philosophical significance of this is the debate on understanding Fascism: Should we understand fascism as the tightness of the yoke around the rods, i.e. the despotic tendencies of Fascist regimes, or the likeness of the rods, i.e. the appeal to some particular group of like human beings, aka nationalism? The American conservative mind fears the former, while most of the world’s left-wingers fear the latter.

  • RR

    “Hated Christianity? Check. Check. Hated Jews? Check. Check. Hated smokers? Check. Check. Loved the nationalization of industry? Check. Check. Loved the redistribution of wealth? Check. Check.”

    I can see that you do follow Glenn Beck. I’m a Christian… went to a Christian school for 11 years… I don’t hate Jews and many are liberals… I don’t want to nationalize industry and do not know another progressive who support it. In regards to having the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes… see the following lefty link: http://movementvision.org/rants-polemics/why-we-tax-the-rich/

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #317 master shutoff

    Was “distrust of the government” a “rightwing issue” during the 8 years of GW Bush?

    Oh, that’s right, no. Are the views of the CRIPS, BLOODS, MS-13, and a thousand other minority streetgangs RIGHTWING?

    You are an idiot.

  • Puggg

    Troll 317: Giffords posed with a fully automatic rifle. This suspect doesn’t really talk about a gold standard, not in anything close to a coherent way. Ever hear of liberals that distrust government? They’re all over the place when a Republican is President, nowhere to be found when a Democrat is President.

    I do agree with you the map was not in good taste. Too, Palin tweeted something a few hours ago using the phrase “don’t retreat, reload.” Then again, you must not realize that not all of us are “Palin worshippers.” She’s not my first choice among 2012 Republicans.

    Troll 322: You just proved my point.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I like beck. Ok. Sure. (looks around the apt. doesn’t see a tv.)

    Sure.

    Maybe this Beck fella is just RIGHT, RR.

    Honestly, I’ve never seen his show, and I don’t watch TV. Haven’t even owned one for almost ten years.

    Oh wait, you didn’t rebut anything that you quoted from my comment. Nevermind.

    You are a troll, after all, since you have no argument of actual merit.

    How the hell you gonna QUOTE my comment, and not rebut anything in the quote? Are you DAFT?

  • donh

    What gets white washed in the history books is that Hitler’s primary opposition to Russian communism was that 30% of the bolshevik leadership was jewish. As far as achieving a classless society where the all press, thought and economic activity was under heavy handed corrupt state control the two system were quite similar models of tyranny.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    RR said: “I can see that you do follow Glenn Beck. I’m a Christian… went to a Christian school for 11 years… I don’t hate Jews and many are liberals… I don’t want to nationalize industry and do not know another progressive who support it.”

    Who the hell said anything about YOU?

  • Joe

    at 311:

    decided to find the source of your quote and was shocked to find that it appears to come from wikipedia, sans footnote.

    I’m sorry but you have to be a fool to honestly think that two political systems based on statism and collectivism are polar opposites. You do realize that conservatives are for limited government, right? I mean the first thing that comes to mind when I think of fascism is small government. /sarc.

    Do us all a favor and learn to think for yourself.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    donh, it was basically internecine warfare.

  • Puggg

    325: Only logical. The rich are paying their fair share of taxes when the portion of the entirety of all taxes collected from them is close to the proportion of the national income they earn. And as a matter of fact, they’re paying more than that, so they are paying their fair share.

    I am in favor of a multiple of average entry level salary limit for CEOs of publicly traded corporations, e.g. the CEO can’t make, e.g. 50 times more than the average of the entry level. And benefits packages shouldn’t be so much better for CEOs than the entry level, to prevent so much pay being hidden in benefits as a circumvention.

  • Puggg

    329: That figure was never higher than 6%. When it was that high (and it was usually lower), the Jewish portion of the USSR’s population was 5%. Bolsheviks being “so Jewish” is basically an anti-Semitic tall tale. Hitler was against Russians because he was looking to expand Germany eastward into what was Soviet territory. Nothing more.

  • Blue Sun

    Ah, the spinmeisters are hard at work. Louchner is, by the clear evidence of his own irrational writings and videos on u-tube, a raving psychotic, concerned about what he calls ‘currency’ and ‘conscience dreaming’ (whatever that is), not political values or policies of any political wing.

    In his list of favorite books, he lists:

    Brave New World – Aldous Huxley

    Animal Farm – Aldous Huxley

    The Wizard of Oz – L. Frank Baum

    Aesop Fables – Aesop

    The Odyssey – Homer

    Alice’s Adventures into Wonderland – Lewis Carroll

    Fahrenheit 451 – Ray Bradbury

    Peter Pan – J. M. Barrie

    To Kill A Mockingbird – Harper Lee

    We The Living – Ayn Rand

    Phantom Tollbooth – Norton Juster (illustrated by Jules Feiffer)

    One Flew Over the Cukoo’s Nest – Ken Kesey

    Pulp – apparently the hard-boiled detective novel by Charles Bukowski

    Through The Looking Glass – Lewis Carroll

    The Communist Manifesto – Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels

    Siddhartha – Hermann Hesse – a novel set in the time of Buddha, in which a Brahman follows the Buddhist path of enlightenment and becomes one with Buddha – whose real name was Siddhartha Gautema.

    The Old Man And The Sea – Ernest Hemmingway

    Gulliver’s Travels – Jonathan Swift

    Mein Kampf – Adolf Hitler

    The Republic – Plato – a Socratic dialog of Justice and the Ideal State (in which he argues that oligarchy, tyranny, and democracy can sustain themselves).

    Meno – Plato – another Socratic dialog, this one dealing with human virtue.

    As for burning the flag (if true – I have yet to see primary sources on this, but would not be surprised if it is true), wackaloons on both sides do this. The lunatic right-wing fundamentalist Christians at Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church include American flag desecration, including burning the flag, and throwing the flag on the ground and stomping on it.

    You can choose to cherrypick the Communist Manifesto to ‘prove’ your need to paint him as a left-winger, or Mein Kampf to paint him as a right-wing fascist, or Ayn Rand’s We The Living to paint him as a right-wing libertarian anarcho-capitalist, or Plato to paint him as a classicist in the vein of Leo Strauss (the patron philosopher of the Neoconservative Movement), or Peter Pan/Alice in Wonderland/Alice’s Adventures Underground/The Wizard of Oz/Phantom of the Tollbooth to paint him as a delayed adolescent who never matured into an adult.

    Given that he attacked and shot a Democratic Congresswoman and a Judge (appointed by George H. W. Bush) who just ruled against the Arizona anti-immigrationists, there is indication that he was targeting the liberal political base, not the conservative.

    There are many, many ‘logical fallacies.’ Sometimes they are employed out of ignorance of formal and informal logical thinking. Other times they are employed intentionally, cynically, and dishonestly to further a particular ideology. Probably the most often employed fallacy has been described as;

    Theory (or Belief) Influences Observation.

    In this case, the person is so dedicated to the theory or belief, that he translates his observations of facts and behavior to confirm with his already held belief, or to bring comfort and reinforcement to one’s existing beliefs. It is often called the Proof By Pleasure, in which an agreeable opinion is accepted as true – even without corroberating evidence (and often in the face of contradictory evidence) simply because it makes one happy and feeds his or her self-righteousness.

    This particular forum, in which an obviously psychotic raver, who writes incoherent rants and creates grossly flawed attempts at syllogisms on the net about creating his own currency, though he uses the word in irrational ways. In addition, he repeatedly rants about his own ‘conscience dreams’ (also never defined). There is none of his rhetoric that has turned up that paints him as either a radical left-wing nut or a radical right-wing nut.

    When you look at an incoherent schizophrenic whose acknowledged reading list is drawn for the entire range of political theories, as well as childrens’ fantasies, ancient philosophy, and numerous other books, and, in order to paint him as a leftist by citing only one book and ignoring his readings of Ayn Rand, Plato, and Orwell (who warned about left-wing tyrannies), then you are being intellectually dishonest on a grand scale, preferring to discredit your political opponents instead of seeking the facts and the truth.

    This is so common in today’s right-wing that virtually all of the posters not only agree with this, but in their (proof of) pleasure, positively revel in it. Please, please, please, for the sake of the country, start examining evidence impartially and thinking for yourselves, instead of blindly following an ideological fanaticism you have been conditioned to adhere to.

  • Dan

    Hitler despised “the Rule of Law”, the separation of powers, constitutional government, an independent judiciary, TRULY private property, traditional morality and religion, and individual liberty,and did what he could to subvert or abolish them. All this puts Hitler in the same camp with Marxists, Fabian Socialists, and pretty much all radical Leftist movements.

  • Prefect

    He has crazy stuff on currency being backed with gold and silver, complaints about government involvement in people’s lives, and so forth too, so not exactly a fit for either political party really:

    http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-internet-profile-photographs/

  • bg

    ++

    RR #292

    re: [Hitler was a Fascist and not a fan or Communism or Marxists.]

    that always cracks me up, like aside from the
    name on the deed .. there’s a difference??

    [But what connects them all is this. As a government’s power is more unrestrained, as its power reaches into all the corners of culture and society, and as it is less democratic, then the more likely it is to kill its own citizens. There is more than a correlation here. As totalitarian power increases, democide multiplies until it curves sharply upward when
    totalitarianism is near absolute. As a governing elite has the power to do whatever it wants, whether to satisfy its most personal desires, to pursue what it believes is right and true, it may do so whatever the cost in lives. In this case power is the necessary condition for mass murder. Once an elite have it, other causes and conditions can operated to bring about the immediate genocide, terrorism, massacres, or whatever killing an elite feels is warranted.

    [..]

    Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked. But there is a larger lesson to be learned from this horrendous sacrifice to one ideology. That is that no one can be trusted with power. The more power the center has to impose the beliefs of an ideological or religious elite or impose the whims of a dictator, the more likely human lives are to be sacrificed. This is but one reason, but perhaps the most important one,
    for fostering liberal democracy.]

    oh btw.. just so’s ya know..

    and this was a great read, jmho of course..

    [We need to be careful about the methodological metaphors we keep in our minds. Too much of Cold War history was written as if its major contenders were indeed featureless billiard balls, whose internal composition and character didn’t much matter. In retrospect, apples and oranges might have been the better metaphor: at least it would have allowed for irregularity, asymmetry, and the possibility of internal rot.]

    same holds true today more than ever..

    ==

  • Puggg

    335: I get the feeling that he went after Giffords and Judge Roll because they were close to where he was in Tucson, and easily accessible in that public forum. If this suspect lived in a city with a Republican Congress(wo)man, and s/he appeared at a meet-the-voters town hall at at grocery store, he would have probably shot him or her. Or, to put it another way, if Jesse Kelly had beaten Giffords in November, and he was the one at that Safeway, this suspect would have tried to kill him.

  • Chisum

    Oh boy, “THE BELL OF STUPIDITY” is getting a workout today.

    Ding Dong. It rings for you Blue Sun.

    Sweeping generalization much?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    “The lunatic right-wing fundamentalist Christians at Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church…”

    Done reading your idiot, longwinded comment at that.

    Phelps and his “Christian” church are anything but, and are LEFTIES THROUGH AND THROUGH.

    They are real-life MOBYS. They do what they do, to get folks like you to say things like that, and to believe that they are representative of Christ and rightwingers.

    PHELPS RAN FOR OFFICE, AS A DEMOCRAT, YOU TOOL.

  • Joe

    It’s difficult for me to understand how any of you leftists can just ignore the postings by someone who knew him that stated he was a liberal. Must be nice to only absorb speculation that fits your agenda while simultaneously plugging your ears to any evidence of the contrary.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Pugg said: “I get the feeling that he went after Giffords and Judge Roll because they were close to where he was in Tucson, and easily accessible in that public forum. If this suspect lived in a city with a Republican Congress(wo)man, and s/he appeared at a meet-the-voters town hall at at grocery store, he would have probably shot him or her. Or, to put it another way, if Jesse Kelly had beaten Giffords in November, and he was the one at that Safeway, this suspect would have tried to kill him.”

    THIS, TIMES TEN.

  • Darkness
  • Taqiyyotomist

    GP servers are getting a workout, as well, I’m guessing.

    340+ comments? Yikes, I wonder what’s the record on GP?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    OOOH. Good find, #344. Someone get this to Jim Hoft.

  • Puggg

    343: That said, I often wonder why any of these politicians even bother with these sorts of public forums, except to create the impression that they actually care about what we think. Most politicians, and that includes ones we like and ones we don’t, already have their minds made up. Only a lobbyist with a bag of money or the fear of some ballot box retribution makes them act differently. Gabrielle Giffords is a fairly standard Congressional liberal Democrat, only slightly to the right of her party in her legislative body, and will always be that way and vote that way. (Really, she will, knock on wood she’s going to make it.) No matter how many supermarket shoppers she pretends to listen to or care about.

  • bg

    ++

    Blue Sun #335

    hmmm, what’s up with all these Blue names tonight..

    anyways..

    [When you look at an incoherent schizophrenic whose acknowledged reading list is drawn for the entire range of political theories, as well as childrens’ fantasies, ancient philosophy, and numerous other books, and, in order to paint him as a leftist by citing only one book and ignoring his readings of Ayn Rand, Plato, and Orwell (who warned about left-wing tyrannies), then you are being intellectually dishonest on a grand scale, preferring to discredit your political opponents instead of seeking the facts and the truth.

    This is so common in today’s right-wing that virtually all of the posters
    not only agree with this, but in their (proof of) pleasure, positively revel
    in it. Please, please, please, for the sake of the country, start examining
    evidence impartially and thinking for yourselves, instead of blindly following
    an ideological fanaticism you have been conditioned to adhere to.]

    you are virtually & otherwise wrong..

    albeit there are others.. show me where i even
    hinted at, never mind mentioned what he read??

    ==

  • Rachelle

    PLUGG said:

    “312: Hate to burst your bubble, but “Fascism” originates from “fasces,” the famous Roman bundle of rods.”

    Plugg is half right. The Roman fasces were carried by the lictors before Roman magistrates to display their authority. They were bound rods. That led to the use of the term fasces for Italian unions–united/bound–get it? The word comes from Rome, but Fascism as a political philosophy comes from modern Italy and Progressive/leftist theory. Fascism is leftist and progressive politics. Look at the Progressives in our own government, totalitarian dirigiste political philosophy–Fascists in spirit and thought if not yet in name.

  • Laury

    Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik says he is “not convinced” that the gunman in today’s shooting spree acted alone.

    According to Sheriff Dupnik, at about 10:10am Saturday, the gunman approached and opened fire. Congresswoman Giffords was the first person shot.

    “All I can tell you is that this individual may have a mental issue, and that people who are unbalanced are especially susceptible to vitriol,” said Dupnik.

    Dupnik described the tragic event as a day of “personal sadness for all of us in the room.” He went on to say he “hoped all Americans are as saddened and as shocked as we are. I hope that most of them are as angry as I am. I think it’s time as a country that we do a little soul searching. Because the vitriolic rhetoric that we hear from people in the radio business and from some of those in the TV business…this is not the nice United States that we grew up with.”

    Dupnik went on to say that “pretty soon we are not going to be able to find willing decent people to subject themselves, to serve in public office.”

    http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.nr.police.az.shooting.presser.cnn

  • wanumba

    #169 January 8, 2011 at 4:56 pm
    Blue Texan commented:
    “He burns a U.S. flag. A common righty thingy.”

    Right-wing militia nuts have been known to burn flags.

    The point is to start running around screaming HES A LEFTY KOSSACK!!11!1 is absurd
    ………..

    Applying the same measure, less unfair as Rep Lopez’s lightening-fast, uber-partisan national network accusations that he’s a Conservative. She got out of the gate first, to prejudice the public, because it wasn’t based on facts – she acted so fast she didn’t have any reliable info. But Lopez deliberately employed her authority as an elected official and her access to network news, which no one at any blog comments section has any access to, for any comparable effect.

    Democrat Lopez applied a corollary of the divisive, “Obama Doctrine”: “I don’t know the facts, but it a conservative was involved.”

    Alinsky: “Let no crisis go to waste.”

  • Puggg

    335: Orwell didn’t warn against “left-wing” tyrannies, only tyrannies in general. It might be tempting to think that Orwell was only concerned about leftist regimes if Animal Farm is the only Orwell book you’ve ever read. But 1984 was far more neutral and less allegorical.

    312: I’m only “half right” in your mind because you look at things through the glasses of the American-defined political spectrum. Not like it’s a crime or anything, it’s more of a neutral observation.

  • Henry Hawkins

    An alien from another galaxy could come down and murder every child in America and a frighteningly large portion of the people would immediately divide into two camps and argue over whether the alien was a liberal or a conservative.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Dupnik went on to say that “pretty soon we are not going to be able to find willing decent people to subject themselves, to serve in public office.”

    I think politicians should carry concealed, and get training.

    That would help.

    It would help if it were a legal requirement that we all carry, and that we fine anyone who does not, since we all have to protect their lives for them, since they are not willing to do so themselves.

    EVERYONE should be armed,

  • Puggg

    350: Then how did that goofball ever get elected Sheriff? Pima County is a fairly blue section of a fairly red state. Mainly because of the Hispanic voter base. This is why that Sheriff doesn’t want to enforce SB 1070.

    Truthfully, he’s re-enacting the disastrous Wellstone Memorial.

  • Puggg

    354: The cold hard truth is that virtually every politician of every political party in American history has received credible death threats. It’s the heat that comes with being in the kitchen. I wish it weren’t so, but it is. And sometimes, the threats come real violence, today being proof. Yet, it hasn’t precluded “willing decent people” to run for office before now, and today won’t hurt it very much.

    If anything precludes it, it’s that once you declare for public office, you’re subject to a proctological exam — The higher you want to climb in the latter, the deeper that probe goes up your business.

  • Puggg

    344: I read that the Kos people (some of them) were mad at Giffords not voting Pelosi for Minority Leader after November’s red wave. Yet, if they love Democrats and hate Republicans that much, they would have wanted Pelosi out of leadership. Her remaining Minority Leader only serves to remind the average voter that a vote for any Democrat House candidate is a vote to give Pelosi and all her idiocy back the gavel.

  • Laury

    354: Congresswoman Giffords would (ironically) probably agree with you. She is well known for her support of individual gun ownership rights. 343: That fact alone would probably disqualify her from being a “fairly standard Congressional liberal Democrat”. Gun Control not Gun Ownership is part of the Liberal Democratic platform.

  • bg

    ++

    Darkness #344

    oh my, that Daily Kos put a bullseye on Gifford is something new, and
    it cannot be compared to either Palin or Dem maps, as it stands alone..

    wow, just wow..

    i heart Hillbuzz.. 🙂

    ==

  • Puggg

    358: Note I said “slightly to the right of the House Dem” lamestream. Good thing about America, you don’t have to be shoehorned into a specific rigid ideology, you can pick and choose your own paradigm. But on most things most of the time, Giffords is a liberal Democrat.

  • Rachelle

    Plugg said:

    “312: I’m only “half right” in your mind because you look at things through the glasses of the American-defined political spectrum. Not like it’s a crime or anything, it’s more of a neutral observation.”

    Now you are completely wrong…and making no sense. I am not relying on an ‘American-defined political spectrum’ for my view that Fascism is fundamentally a leftist dogma. In fact, some years ago I read the Diary of Count Ciano who served as Mussolini’s foreign affairs minister and who became his son-in-law and, ultimately, his political victim. Ciano was an insider. Fascism is leftist/progressive political philosophy…or so it defined itself and so it acted. Like so many American leftists, you think and speak like too lengthy bumper stickers. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is rather limiting, don’t you think?

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Hillbuzz rocks. True, that.

  • Puggg

    361: I’m a leftist? Have you read my previous posts to this thread? Maybe in a “broken clock is right twice a day” sort of fashion, I agree with a few left-wing line items, but that’s it.

    I’m not slapping your wrist for thinking of European fascist regimes as leftist, I’m just explaining why you think that. But it is a minority viewpoint on the world stage. Mussolini, Hitler and Franco were very much right-wing in European parlance, because of their nationalism.

  • Puggg

    362: But…they can’t seem to grasp that their big hero is part of what they specifically cite is the problem. HRC is Obama times 99.9% — Only difference is style and outward consumption. Personally, I don’t buy the nonsense that Bill Clinton ever “moderated” in reality — Yeah, he “signed” welfare reform, but SSI was the fastest growing Federal budget line item from the signing of WR to 9/11 — What happened is that many people time limited off of AFDC’s successor program made the lateral move to SSI. That’s why Clinton signed WR, b/c of the propaganda reasons, and he knew SSI would be there to “save the day.” Yes, he signed DADT (ironically, I wanted it repealed this year), and DOMA, but ONLY because he thought his own judicial appointments would knock them back.

    A certain book says, “by their fruits, ye shall know them.” I say, by their judicial appointments and executive orders, ye shall know them. Clinton was always a lib while pretending otherwise.

  • bg
  • Mr Graudadler

    Wow, he must definatly be a leftist, as the left are either trying to paint him as a Tea Party member, or simply saying that it doesn’t matter what his leanings are…he is mentally ill. They would never say it didn’t matter if his leanings really were to the right.

  • Medialiars

    Fox News first broadcast that Loughner was an Afghanistan vet, then he became a white male. Hmmm! What about what Loughner writes on his face book page, “That if you call a terrorist, that’s an Ad Hominem, so calling him a terrorist would be an ad hominem attack”. Friends of his also report that he had listed Obama, Chevez…as his favorite people on his face book page which was taken down ASAP.
    Please comment

  • Jean

    The left only know how to point the finger, which connects them to the shooter because he was blaming others for his shortcomings too.
    Still this is tragic so my thoughts and prayers go to the victims of this event.

  • Mr Graudadler

    Reports are now that he tried to enlist in the military, but was refused entry.

  • Rachelle

    PLUGG said:

    “Mussolini, Hitler and Franco were very much right-wing in European parlance, because of their nationalism.”

    Part of that is revised history. Mussolini was hailed by self-identified liberals and progressives in Europe and in the United States as one of their own. Surely you are not simple enough to think that being ‘nationalistic’ makes an ideology one of the right rather than the left. Stalin was openly nationalistic–especially during WWII–and blatantly imperialistic all of the time. Mao, too, was clearly nationalistic mixed with a policy of imperialism. Hugo Chavez and the Castro Brothers are nationalistic in their policies. Aren’t Stalin, Mao, Chavez and Castro men of the left? You need to tune up your own political thinking; it is sadly muddled.

    The terms ‘right’ and ‘left’ are remnants of the French Revolution. It is easier to class modern political thinking as statist/authoritarian on one hand and pro-individual liberty on the other. There is no question that Fascism, Nazism, Communism, and Progressivism are all essentially authoritarian and big-government, anti-liberty philosophies.

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  • Puggg

    370: You nailed the key words: Stalin and WWII. Stalin was not Lenin or Trotsky, and WWII was obviously a war where the USSR was defending itself against an invader, then crushing the invader in its own territory. That’s the great paradox about communism as practiced in the USSR after Lenin and China under Mao and his successors — They are really dictatorial ultra-nationalist regimes that plaster on the veneer, and partially the reality, of an extreme left-wing ideology. But that’s stuff for a Ph.D. dissertation.

    You are correct in your last sentence. And of course it’s easy for you and me to create a libertarian-authoritarian political spectrum, because we’re Americans. But realize that it’s a uniquely American thing to do.

  • bg

    ++

    via Hillbuzz in response list via 1. starkexpo Says:

    Jared Laughner

    misspelled, so who knows if it’s authentic or not..

    heard someone say he didn’t have a FB
    page, who knows if that’s true either..

    the only truth is.. we know we cannot trust the media.. irony
    is, they’re the ones who’ve proved it to US time & time again..

    ==

  • Puggg

    374: The suspect was obsessed with grammar, yet his was so awful. I am in regular e-mail correspondence with someone who works at Pima Junior College, where the suspect was enrolled, and he told me that he gets the feeling that if not for Giffords and Roll appearing in the meet-and-greet today, the suspect would have targeted his school.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #366

    That does offer a clue or two, doesn’t it? Like the time-honored tradition of playing “name that party”, when a Dem or a Rep is involved in a crime. When the MSM makes no mention of party, you immediately KNOW that it was a Dem. If he was a Republican, it would have been in the headline twice, in the lede three times, and once in each paragraph until the end of the article, with a sidebar full of “factoids” about other Republicans who did a similar thing in the past 15-20 years.

    MSM – WE SEE YOU.

    That they are now trying to spin that he was Palin’s or Beck’s Protege, or, what they consider to be “conversely”, that it doesn’t matter whether he was right or left, is a BIG FAT CLUE.

  • Puggg

    374: I think that FB page is an after-the-fact forgery. I don’t think he even had a real FB page.

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  • bg

    ++

    Mr Graudadler #369

    thanks..

    makes sense to me..

    i was wondering about that due to the what he posted here..

    ==

  • Michael

    lol, mein kampf is what the right-wingers read and doubtful a obama support since one would think a white supremacist (who tend to be the ones reading it)would not vote for Obama or be a liberals. Plus the simple fact is if he was a ultra left-winger as some are trying to spin of course targeting a right-wing republican would have been ideal for the guy. As for marx in his video he against the government which is counter to what marx was presenting.

    But hey the spin is fun to watch on both sides and it happen pretty quick, It’s sad a little girl had to die because of this

    Of course we’ll see what the truth really is in the coming weeks, by than most people prob would have forgotten by than and be fighting over something else.

  • Puggg

    Troll 379: Guess you forgot about Communist Manifesto, or you just let your eyes skip that part.

  • Joe

    “mein kampf is what the right-wingers read”

    Is that a serious statement? What a joke. Get it through your thick head that conservatives stand for limited government, basically at the other end of the political spectrum. Only an imbecile would believe that fascism and communism, both statist and collectivist, are political opposites. The tenets of fascism are much more closely aligned with your socialistic ones than conservatism. Just because you and your ilk say it does not make it so. Perhaps you should learn the fundamental principles of what you think you believe in and what you’re led to think you should oppose, before actually holding those beliefs.

  • bg

    ++

    Puggg #377

    thanks, but i don’t have enough info to seal the deal either way yet..

    besides, he very well could have belonged to FaceBook.. perhaps no one
    befriended him, or he found more action, as sadly desperate as it was, at
    tweets..

    ==

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  • Fred

    To Michael #379

    mein kampf was written by the leader of the “National Socialist German Workers Party”. Only an idiot doesn’t know that socialism is a LEFT WING ideal.

  • FedUpWithHate

    I love it… The tea party is one minute saying how inclusive it is and how it’s not just Republicans, and then this happens and he couldn’t have sided with the tea party because what he reads. The tea party has represented itself as anti-government, as did this guy. Maybe you wouldn’t agree with him… Because he’s crazy! But the negative anti-gov’t, pro gun agenda of the tea party clearly has an impact on people like this regardless of who he aligns himself with.

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  • NC Cop

    “The tea party has represented itself as anti-government, as did this guy.”

    Or dems/liberals for 8 years Bush was president, right? Or does your memory only go back to 2009?????

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  • Chisum

    Since when has the Tea Party position been anti-government? They are for smaller, more effective, less intrusive government. Everyone recognizes that government is necessary.

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  • Jean

    #386 FedUpWithHate commented

    The Daily Kos targeted Rep. Gabrielle Gifford with a bulls eye. You need to change your title to “filled up with hate”.

  • Jonathan Swift

    Right-Wing EXTREMIST violence: Attack on Move-on.org worker at Rand Paul rally, Shooting at Holocaust museum, Murder of Dr. George Tiller, Jim Adkisson shootings in a Unitarian Church (liberal/gay hater), James Earl Ray, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph…

    Left-Wing EXTREMIST violence: Clay Duke school board shooting, Minnesota National Convention 2008 bomb threats (isn’t it nice i can be proud of my homestate), 2010 Santa Fe pro-immigration riots, SEIU beating in Saint Louis town hall meeting…

    Point is… That the biggest factor in all these incidents are that they were commited by EXTREMISTS, not right-wingers and not left-wingers, just plain extremists. What everyone should be talking about is how this shows that the extremist rhetoric from these elections, from BOTH sides (come on my fellow “liberals”, don’t act like you didn’t enjoy viewing all right-wingers as demented hotheads that “dont retreat, RELOAD”). It is precisely because of the Rush Limbaughs (sir murder) and Kieth Olbermans (sir murder if i owned a gun, meh, i’ll use a knife)

    And don’t be zombies and say crap like “Obama and his anti-Israeli Muslim Posse” and “all right-wingers read Mein Kampf”… thats retarded…

  • Rock

    After seeing the commentary on TV, and reading numerous comments floating about the internet, it would seem everybody see’s the opposing side as the blame. I would suggest that the true cause of such tragedies rest squarely within the White House inner circle. In the beginning of this administration the boastful bragging of the Chicago Way, talk of knifes or gun fights and encouraging the unions to get in their face, set a tone that those on the Right saw as threats or intimation. This is not a tone the President of the nation should allow his advisers to project. Many saw the inner circle as nothing more than mob enforcers rather than leaders of a free nation. Both Left and Right followed the lead of the man in the Oval office and acted accordingly. Since his inauguration he has been at war with one element or another of America, and yet finds it impossible to identify the killers of 3000 Americans as the enemy.

    We are all guilty but our President has failed us miserably with his cavalier projection of The Chicago Way.

  • Jonathan Swift

    @ NC COP
    ““The tea party has represented itself as anti-government, as did this guy.”

    Or dems/liberals for 8 years Bush was president, right? Or does your memory only go back to 2009?????”

    HEY! Give him some credit! Liberals started liking the government back in 2007, when we could just blame everything on George bush… not that it needed any convincing that most of it was his fault anyway… its all good now cuz Obama is totally the BEST PRESIDENT EVER…

  • Jonathan Swift

    @ Fred
    “mein kampf was written by the leader of the “National Socialist German Workers Party”. Only an idiot doesn’t know that socialism is a LEFT WING ideal.”

    Read your history, don’t be retarded, think before you speak, and then sound smart and we will worship your golden words.
    “Nazism is an extremist conservative form of politics. (encyclopedia Britannica)”
    pwned, plus, socialist starts with an S and there is no “s” in NAZI… duh. gotcha there didn’t I XD XP.

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  • Rachelle

    PLUGG said:

    “WWII was obviously a war where the USSR was defending itself against an invader, then crushing the invader in its own territory.”

    I suppose Plugg was trying to make some point, but I can’t guess what it is.

    The Soviet Union [progressive-leftist paradise that it was] began WW II as an ally of Nazi Germany. When Germany invaded Poland from the west, the Soviets invaded it from the east. It was the leftist/progressive Soviet Union that murdered Polish intellectuals in the Katyn forest. A nationalist and imperialist Soviet Union also helped itself to the Baltic states at about the same time. In the run up to this, the Soviets attacked Finland. Painting the Soviets as only victims in WW II is a gross distortion of the truth.

    Anyone who tries to differentiate Communism and Fascism and Nazism by thinking that being ‘nationalistic’ will sort them between the left and right is deluding himself. They are the same, evil, totalitarian system passing under different names. None of them cared a whit for individuals or individualism or freedom.

    The people styling themselves as progressives [or of the left] today draw strength from the same poisoned well that watered Fascism and Communism.

    Violence comes naturally to them. Just look at Obama’s pals, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn and their Weathermen terrorist organization for recent examples.

    That is why when this horrible shooting in Tucson happened, I thought first of the left. I am not sure, yet, that I was wrong.

  • AZ resident

    Shame on all of you. Shame. The discourse here is finger pointed hatred to one up someone else.
    Despite all the rhetoric, facts, opinions, speculations, notions, paranoid inflections six people are dead, media going spastic, and an almost feeding frenzy with political spew…. shame on you! Where are your manners?Where is your decency….find a place to build your fears, your undisputed hatred….somewhere else. This Monday quarterbacking is non-sense. It proves no one correct….shame on you….who cares when families are hurting and those injured, those killed and even the parents of the shooter….are trying to take it all in. Shame on your vulture tactics….give it a rest ….walk in their shoes, and leave the venting outside…no more darkness and hatred.

  • Rock

    @ #399 January 8, 2011 at 10:49 pm
    AZ resident commented:

    So did you post this at Huff Puff Blow, or is the Right your only target tonight.

    This is the end result of the Chicago Way no matter who pulled the trigger. It should not have happen, but it has and innocent people are hurting. Show me your post a a Lib site or your nothing more than what you have accused posters here of.

  • derrick grady

    From his myspace page: Jarod enjoys reading Rush Limbaugh is a big fat liar and disagrees with Al Frankin saying “Rush is not FAT!” He enjoys singing the AVA MARIA with his favorite alter boy, Sean Hannity. I love long walks on the beach with “My Main Squeeze, Sarah Palin.” He was lead into custody saying, Sarah had her in the crosshairs, I did it for Sarah! In his quiet times, Jarrod enjoys making youtube videos, and collect naked photos of Ann Coulter.

  • wanumba

    #399 January 8, 2011 at 10:49 pm
    AZ resident commented
    ………..

    I’m an AZ resident and was focused like everyone else on the tragedy until Lopez (D) rushed to accuse the innocent across national TV.
    Where’s the call for shame for that truly despicable, politically-motivated smear in a time of grief and horror?

  • AZ resident

    neither, right or left…Arizonian….tout your spew to someone who cares what side of the toast you butter…I have better things to do than to argue or point out the amount of fear and hatred you evidently want to bestow on a citizen who has not made up their mind about insanity.., and by your earlier comments I gather you are a person who would cut someone down for being human. Shame on you. Don’t need to know your side…or politics…just that you need to show compassion and pause for the incident, rather than explain the WHY you think…it is tragic, show some humanity.

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  • derrick grady

    Speaking of conservative garbage and teabaggers, ever notice how they love to point fingers. So basically what I’m saying is, you people (Teabaggers and conservative white trash) brainwashed Jarod, and now that he done your dirty work, you wash your hands of him! HE WAS JUST A PAWN.

  • Radegunda

    Jonathan Swift #396, Encyclopedia Britannica is not the Holy Gospel of political analysis. It was Marxists who defined Nazis as “right-wing” in an effort to dissociate themselves.

    Hitler called his ideology “Marxism without the Talmudic fringe” (ie. a judenrein Marxism). Serious scholars have detailed the many similarities and historical connections between Nazism and communism. As long as encyclopedias are edited by leftists, all that won’t get into Britannica.

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  • Taqiyyotomist

    AZ I’ll repeat the question, since you didn’t answer it:

    “So did you post this at Huff Puff Blow, or is the Right your only target tonight?”

    How about DailyKos? Firedoglake? Are you going there and telling them they should be ashamed? OR is it just the right?

    Don’t be a typical leftist. If you respond to a post, respond to the question therein. Otherwise you’re just a troll.

  • AZ resident

    All smear is shameful. Agreed. But adding to the fire of anger is not helping anyone. We need to stay calm and concentrate on reason and rational action. We- all humans are quick to jump and blame. We need to keep our faculties and not jump to conclusions all the way around.

    And for Rock or anyone else…I am not a troll (sic) and I am not a bagger…. to call anyone so is belittling to any intelligence. Name calling went out with jr. high. During this type of incident, which affects many in our state despite party lines, we should and need to find a way to acknowledge and explain after we take care of our own. If you pray, pray. If you need a place to resolve- resolve. If I sound Huff Puff – so be it…..we(state) are suffering a shock and loss.

  • derrick grady

    Bogdan, i didn’t know pope john paul the second was assasinated….dumb ass

  • Radegunda

    Derrick Grady, did it bother you when leftists hanged GW Bush in effigy (if you even know that means) or made a movie fantasizing that he was assassinated, or called him Hitler, or said they hoped Cheney would die?

    I didn’t think so.

    “Finger-pointing” is what happens when leftists immediately exploit a tragedy perpetrated by a psychotic nut in an effort to silence anybody who criticizes their agenda. “Finger-pointing” is leftists, with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, jumping up to blame Hannity, Limbaugh, Boehner, the GOP, the Tea Parties for what one homicidal lunatic did.

    Leftists don’t think people have a right to criticize their agenda. They are disgustingly shameless in exploiting other people’s suffering in an effort to silence their critics.

  • Sonny Clips

    He also seemed to enjoy Ayn Rand, I’m thinking he might be a right winger since he was killing Democrats.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    So, AZ. Is that a “no”? You didn’t go to any lefty sites, where they are all, right now, blaming the rightwingers and Rush and Hannity and Beck and Limbaugh and Palin, to tell them they should be ashamed of this?

    How about we do a Jr. High thing. Maybe that’ll work.

    Did you go to Leftwing Sites tonight to tell them they should be ashamed for their hatefulness and bile?

    CHECK ONE:
    (_) Yes.

    (_) No.

  • sd

    i hope people understand that socialists and fascists hate each other, hitler and the nazis were anything but socialist, and they are on the opposite sides of the political spectrum

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Sonny the Judge was a Republican appointee.

    There is no evidence whatsoever, even circumstantial, that he was targetting ANY PARTY WHATSOEVER. He made no mention of Party, either party, in either his ramblings or his videos. He was wanting to kill PEOPLE. That’s it, from the available evidence so far.

    The left “targeted” Giffords during the election, as well, since she was too far to the right for their policies.

    If you find any evidence that this guy was “killing Democrats”, post it, please.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    One after another. People with sub-high-school educations, every other damn comment.

    NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY.

    What don’t you understand, sd? Nevermind. The list would be too big for a page.

    I feel so ashamed of my government for doing this to your mind, while calling it “education”.

  • derrick grady

    Radegunda, or should I say REDegunda? Hmmmm,me wonders if you are a closet Ruskie! Did it bother me when they hanged Bushy in effigy? Not at all Comrade! Now may I ask you if you minded that Jeb Bush lied to America so his brother could be elected President, hanging chad my ass! Get your head out of your ass you vodka drinking, red square loving, anti american, teabagger wanna-be!

  • AZ resident

    Rock -answered the question- don’t call me a troll….you don’t know me and haven’t the right…so blow it off with your offense. That is your defense to insult others with your political view and hatred…I live with many party affiliations in this state, they are my neighbors and though we may or not see eye to eye….I cannot condone bending to neandarthal tactics and name calling when others do not agree with me. You and others, both right and left are searching for a reason to take up arms yourself to blame the other side for all the wrongs. In many other countries and cultures it is labeled extremist rhetoric. My statement was neither sided…but because I object…I must be a troll- give me a break—-the only comment is that it is shameful to not be thinking of healing a wrong…instead needing to be right.

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  • AZ resident

    How sophomoric…..get a real life.

  • Socratic

    You forgot to mention Ayn Rand on his list of books. And Orwell…

    The shooter isn’t a left-winger on his best day. After reading his rantings he comes across more as a right-winger than left, since you brought it up.

    I suggest that you look up the word fascism. You will find that it isn’t described as a “liberal” or left leaning philosophy.

    1. any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
    2. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
    3. prejudice in relation to the subject specified: body fascism

  • Rachelle

    I have to agree with the comment above to the effect that the lefty comments on this thread help reveal just how pathetically poor the American educational system has become in the hands of ‘teachers’ unions and radical schools of education.

    SD Said:

    “i hope people understand that socialists and fascists hate each other, hitler and the nazis were anything but socialist, and they are on the opposite sides of the political spectrum”

    Evidently SD is not educated enough to know that fascists and nazis were socialists/leftists. The dispute between the Soviet Union and Germany was not that different in character from the dispute between the Soviet Union and Communist China. Are you prepared, SD, to claim that the Soviets or the Red Chinese were not socialist in philosophy? The fact that two leftist countries don’t get along–or even shoot at each other from time to time [most recently Communist Vietnam vs. Communist China] does not mean that they do not share the same odius politics.

    Good grief! Go read some history and stop sounding like a freshman fool.

  • sd

    @Taqiyyotomist

    you obviously went to a sub-par college (if that) since you clearly don’t know anything about fascism, socialism, the Nazis, and so on. And yes, the Nazis were the National Socialists, but only in name and theory since they combined elements of far-right and far-left ideologies. In practice, the Nazis were far-right fascists. The Nazis had a dictatorial ruler who was responsible and made decisions for literally everything in the state. Also, fascism is an ideology whereas socialism is an economic and political theory which advocates common ownership and social standing among everyone. Pretty sure Hitler and the “NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY” didn’t really believe in all that stuff.

  • Rachelle

    Socratic said:

    “The shooter isn’t a left-winger on his best day. After reading his rantings he comes across more as a right-winger than left, since you brought it up.”

    You claim to know a lot about a person you never met.

    Those who do know him from school are describing him as a radical leftist. A screwy one, to be sure, but a leftist all the same. In an earlier time he would have joined William Ayers in the Weathermen terrorist organization. They always had use for a few willing nuts and idiots, some of whom blew themselves up in ‘work accidents’.

  • Socratic

    #415

    Palin and the Tea party targeted Giffords. (The image is still available on Facebook.) Giffords spoke at length about the rhetoric coming from the Tea Party and Sarah Palin.

    Since the shooter is a live and well, he will be able to tell his own story. And from the looks of things, it looks like the people on the right have more to fear for they have spent the better part of two years espousing the rhetoric to “reload” and to use “second Amendment remedies.”

    The actions are disturbing and we have not heard the last of this this shooter about his motivations and his intended victim(s).

  • sd

    and again, if you knew anything about the true definition of socialism and its buddy communism, you’d know that all these communist and socialist regimes (Hitler, Stalin, Jong-il, etc.) are NOT truly socialist or communist.

  • Rachelle

    SD said:

    “Also, fascism is an ideology whereas socialism is an economic and political theory which advocates common ownership and social standing among everyone. ”

    Gosh, SD, you sound like a public school teacher…which is to say you sound like an ignoramus.

    Go read some of the original Fascist and Nazi tracts. They were very much concerned about economics and ‘common ownership’ which, among socialists under any name always seems to mean that nobody owns anything except the bureaucrats who run the state.

    After all the failures of ‘socialism’ and all the untimely deaths it has caused, it is incredible to me that there are still people who sign on to this insanity and are prepared to act violently to achieve their perverted goals.

  • Klaus

    So the Karl Marx book he lists proves he’s a left-winger but the Ayn Rand book he lists proves nothing? And what to make of the two Plato books? And the juxtaposition of liking “Animal Farm” with “Mein Kampf?” Seems a tad contradictory… like something you would expect from a crazy person who had no coherent ideological viewpoint.

    This sorry attempt by the left and right to pin some coherent ideological leaning on this guy is just pathetic. We’re obviously dealing with a seriously disturbed individual who was more concerned about mind control and the government’s control of currency than stimulus bills and the nuances of American health care policy. At best, he might be called an anarchist, but like any paranoid schizophrenic, his issues were likely personal and not the least bit political.

  • Socratic

    Rachelle commented:
    “You claim to know a lot about a person you never met.

    Wait for it…her comes the moment of hypocrisy:

    “In an earlier time he would have joined William Ayers in the Weathermen terrorist organization.”

    As I previously stated: After reading his rantings he comes across more as a right-winger than left, since you brought it up.

    SO, to be clear, because I have watched the news, including Fox which I never watch, I have yet to see or hear anyone you describe as his friends “as a radical leftist.”

    I read his words, read his ranting and mostly incoherent manifesto and his complaints don’t follow the “radical leftist” mantra.

    But then again, I saw your definition of fascism.

  • Socratic

    sd commented:

    Save your breath. Because they will never hear you because it doesn’t fit with their cognitive dissonance.

  • Rachelle

    SD said:

    “all these communist and socialist regimes (Hitler, Stalin, Jong-il, etc.) are NOT truly socialist or communist.”

    Tell me where there is a truly socialist or communist success story, SD.

    Somehow that excuse is always trotted out….”well, we haven’t gotten to true communism/socialism yet….if we just kill a few million more people then we will have the worker’s paradise.”

    The only part of their schemes that works as described is the business of killing people. Communism/socialism has always been successful at killing people. As for running an economy, not so much.

    By the way, SD, even Cuba is beginning to give up on socialism. They are laying of tens of thousands of government workers and telling them to go do something in the private sector. Socialism doesn’t work.

    Chicago Hay Market bombing/murders — socialist
    Cripple Creek, CO bombing/murder of miners – socialist/communist
    Ex. Gov. Steunenberg of Idaho murder — socialist/communist
    Lee Harvey Oswald, murderer of JFK — Communist
    Sirhan Sirhan, murderer of Robert Kennedy — Palestinian
    William Ayers — terrorist Weathermen (friend of Obama)
    Bernadine Dorhn — terrorist Weathermen (friend of Obama)

    They will do anything to anyone to achieve their corrupt ideals.

  • Definitely not Tea Party. In fact, it seems that this guy is really unstable. I can’t make head or tails out of these rantings, not that it really matters I guess whether I understand what he’s saying, but it’s odd that he’s so much like that guy who flew his plane into that building last year. The same kind of disconnected, ill-formed ideas and random observations that make sense only to them.

  • sd

    Rachelle, i know all about fascism and the Nazis. Like i said, the Nazi party originally started off as a party that believed in the commonality among men. But Hitler used it as platform to gain power and turned it into a Fascist ruling party. Fascism, while believing in common social standing among people at first, goes on to advocate that the state needed to be ruled by an elite who “knew what was best for the country” and that the country would be eventually subject to social darwinism. those are two things that socialism hates.

  • Rachelle

    Socratic said:

    “SO, to be clear, because I have watched the news, including Fox which I never watch, I have yet to see or hear anyone you describe as his friends “as a radical leftist.”

    Socratic, why don’t you look at some of the Twitter comments from his acquaintances that are posted at the top of this page. I have noticed that a couple of AZ papers have picked up this thread of the story as well.

    FOX News, and certainly not the leftist media, are not personally acquainted with him, so I doubt you would get much insight there. His former classmates, on the other hand, well that’s a different matter. Several now have said they remember him as a leftist. Swallow it: he looks like one of yours after all. No big surprise to me.

    By the way, remember that crazy scientist, some lady, who murdered several of her co-workers. That was a big deal in the news until it turned out she, too, was one of yours–another leftist, Obama fan.

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  • Socratic

    We don’t have to speculate as he didn’t commit suicide by cop and in due time his motivations and his influences will be laid bare.

  • sd

    haha, I’m not advocating any right or left wing agenda. I’m simply trying to explain what socialism and fascism are defined as. And of course I can use the “we havn’t seen true socialism or communism yet” line because we havn’t. In each socialist or communist state, there has always been a ruling party and/or leader that hijacks it for their own purposes and twists it into something else. While in theory, the idea of an equal society is great, it’ll never happen due to human nature.

  • Rachelle

    SD said:

    “Fascism, while believing in common social standing among people at first, goes on to advocate that the state needed to be ruled by an elite who “knew what was best for the country” and that the country would be eventually subject to social darwinism. those are two things that socialism hates.”

    You think that socialist/communist countries aren’t ruled by a soi disant ‘elite’? You really are in the wilderness.

    As for ‘social darwinism’ being a character of Fascism but alien to ‘true’ socialism, you are again mistaken. Mussolini’s Fascists were basically politically enpowered union thugs. Remember, in Mussolini’s time fascist and union were essentially interchangeable terms, and they did not dabble in social darwinism. Hitler did seem to buy into it, but, on the other hand, Stalin tried to breed apes with humans to create super soldiers, and in China today experiments are underway to push human evolution. Isn’t that darwinism to a degree? Come to think of it, part of the mass murder underway in the Soviet Union was to try, finally, to create the true soviet man.

    You don’t get it, do you SD? Socialism is about having other people tell you what to eat, what to think, what to do, how to live and when to die. Those are the ugly things that Fascism, Nazism, Communism and Socialism have in common–the state will tell you what to do. You really want to live like that?

  • Pancho

    Well, well, it looks like the shooter was another LIBERAL, yes, I said LIBERAL nut-job. Take a read:
    Jared Lee Loughner reportedly met with Congresswoman Giffords before tragic Saturday, January 8th, 2011 By Joe Brooks
    (WIREUPDATE) — A person who knew gunman Jared Lee Loughner said he met with Congresswoman Giffords at least once in the past. Caitie Parker, a high school friend of the shooter, said Loughner told her about meeting the Congresswomen once in 2007.
    “He was a political radical. He met Giffords once before in 2007. He asked her a question and he told me she was ‘stupid and unintelligent.’ Parker wrote on her Twitter account.
    “He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven’t seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical,” she wrote.
    According to BNO News, Loughner was placed into custody after shooting at least 18 people, six of whom have died.
    Link: http://wireupdate.com/wires/13960/jared-lee-loughner-reportedly-met-with-congresswoman-giffords-before-tragic-shooting/

  • Socratic

    Rachelle commented:
    “why don’t you look at some of the Twitter comments…”

    Really? I have to look at twitter, cause everything posted on Twitter is verified truth and beyond question or reproach. Sorry, I’ll stick with what is verifiable, even by Fox before I start citing Twitter feeds as a viable news source.

    Of course this is your problem, or I should say your expressed fear, that this guy thinks himself a conservative/tea bagger/right wing nut job extraordinaire. I don’t have a dog in the hunt. See, the shooter is still alive and he will be able to tell everyone what his motivations and his influences are/were.

    So while you point your fingers at other you label as a leftist or an Obama fan (because lets face it, in the lone wolf terrorist acts I can point to right-wingers all day) I will wait it out, because the shooter will have his 15 minutes of fame. And whoever he credits as motivating or influencing him the other side will wait to point fingers and lay responsibility or accountability.

    I can only hope that this shooting helps bring reduce the rhetoric of violence in political discourse as it is harmful to the nation as a whole.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    That’s always how it is in these atrocities, with leftists.

    The perp, to a lefty, is always either a Righty, or “well, who knows, it doesn’t really matter, right left, schmight schmeft.”, even when the perp states his hatred for the U.S. constitution, likes to burn the U.S. flag.

    Same with the Kentucky census worker who killed himself last summer, scrawling “FED” on his own chest so as to implicate the Rightwingers. As the info trickled out on this, and eventually it was determined that he killed himself, the same leftists came on the forums, and followed the same exact pattern. HE WAS A RIGHTY! LIMBAUGH’S AND BECK’S FAULT! Then the facts came out, and their refrain became “Well, it doesn’t matter, right, left, who cares really, this was just a Nutcase of no particular ideological leaning, right? Nobody really to blame but himself….”

    So damn predictable, all of you.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Also, the predictable:

    Give them a source of information.

    “No, that’s no source!”

    Always. Every time. No matter the source.

    And of course, naturally, every time, providing no sources at all of their own. Just knowledge that sprung fully formed out of their heads, apparantly.

  • Pancho

    And to those who think that Orwell’s book, 1984, is a pro-commie book, well, you’re just plain ignorant. 1984 is a fervently anti-communist, anti-socialist book. In fact, it is THE MOST IMPORTANT anti-socialist AND pro-freedom book ever written. Only an imbecile, or a nut-job, would think 1984 was a pro-socialist book.

  • Socratic

    So Pancho, the source states pretty clearly that she isn’t really a friend and that she is speculating on his motivations and influences.

    “I haven’t seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class.”

    Well that is one source that is a might iffy. Now I know why she hasn’t appeared in any major news outlets.

  • Rachelle

    Socratic said:

    “I can only hope that this shooting helps bring reduce the rhetoric of violence in political discourse as it is harmful to the nation as a whole.”

    Go tell it to the President. He’s the one who described his fellow citizens as ‘enemies’ [something he won’t do when speaking of Iran or terrorists] and it is he who infamously told his followers: they bring a knife, we bring a gun (paraphrase). Well, now one of them has.

    As for your ‘can’t we all get along’ and speak civilly to one another–go tell the president…and the Kos idiots, and Olbermann.

    The very fact that you are whinning this refrain suggests to me that you are coming to believe this nut is a leftist.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Please. Socratic. You’re this predictable, and all of your ilk on these forums:

    When he confesses that he hates Republicans and the constitution and wanted to kill a politician because she wasn’t lefty enough for him, and that he was fond of communist revolution by violent means, redistribution of wealth, and again repeats that he likes to burn the flag, and post at Kos?

    What will you say? Pretend it’s tomorrow, and that’s what he said. What do you say?

    You say: “He was coached to say that!” I know. That’s how predictable you are, and how well I know your type.

    There is NOTHING that will get you to believe that he was a lefty. He was, to you, Rightwing Wacko, or “it doesn’t matter, right, left” when the evidence comes out.

    As always.

    15 recounts all go to Bush in FL in 2000, and nope, Bush stole the election, and somehow the Jew media and all the judges and all the recounters are all lying. No amount of evidence is good enough.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Democrats had a similar map with bullseye targets on it entitled “BEHIND ENEMY LINES”

    But that wasn’t violent and hateful, right?

    Obama says “They bring a knife, we bring a gun.” and “Punch back twice as hard” and “Itching for a fight” and “…there’ll be hand to hand combat.” and “GET IN THEIR FACES”

    But the hundred or so instances of violence by lefty against righty in the last year have absolutely NOTHING to do with all that, right? Not to mention Olbermann and his unhinged hatefest. Not to mention Kanye West and his “George Bush Hates Black People” idiocy, and the similar idiocy and racist hatred and violence-mongering by the entire rap music field.

    Different standards for different parties. As always.

  • Socratic

    Pancho commented:

    And to those who think that Orwell’s book, 1984, is a pro-commie book, well, you’re just plain ignorant. 1984 is a fervently anti-communist, anti-socialist book. In fact, it is THE MOST IMPORTANT anti-socialist AND pro-freedom book ever written. Only an imbecile, or a nut-job, would think 1984 was a pro-socialist book.

    Hey Pancho, the only Orwell book listed on shooter’s fave list is Animal Farm, not 1984. And I haven’t read any comments on 1984.

  • Pancho

    Socratic, what a hypocrisy that such a deluded and clouded mind would have the gall to choose to associated himself with Socrates. The obvious eludes you, and the vapors consume you.

  • sd

    Rachelle,

    Like I said, socialist and communist states DO in fact get hijacked or taken over by elites, who end up ruling for long periods of time and using the state and its power for their own ends. you are twisting practice (USSR, NK, China) and theory (the definition and theory of socialism and communism). So do not bring up Stalin when trying to compare true socialism to fascism, because Stalin was by no stretch a true socialist/communist. And Mussolini did believe and “dabbled” into social darwinism. He stripped Italian Jews of their citizenship and wanted to create a modern Roman Empire through the best Italy had to offer

  • Socratic

    Rachelle commented:

    “As for your ‘can’t we all get along’ and speak civilly to one another–go tell the president…and the Kos idiots, and Olbermann.”

    Ah yes, the childish, “well they do it too!” response.

    So now you are predicating your actions because of what Kos idiots and Olbermann do? Wow. talk about your motivations and influences! So much for you acting of your own volition and rising above the fray.

    If you keep waiting around for someone else to act then you are just another follower.

  • POT did this

    Never underestimate the dark side of the pot.

  • Socratic

    Well it is clear that Poncho has reached the end of his skill set as he has opted for the Ad hominem. And all it took was pointing out the obvious.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    451 I think that she was not really saying that “they do it too, so we can too.”

    I think she was pointing out your hypocrisy, and that of your ideological brethren.

    Where is your criticism directed? One direction only.

  • Pancho

    Animal Farm was Orwells forerunner to 1984. He employed the ancient Greek fable form to teach a modern lesson, but thought the form proved to be too sterile. 1984 was a more visceral and striking work derived from Animal Farm. Both books harbor the same tenets. Any criticism made of Animal Farm, or 1984, as being indicative of a pro-commie; pro-socialist; or pro-lefty viewpoint, demonstrates a profound stupidity.

  • Pancho

    Ad hominem is appropriate when one addresses a fool, thus, I reiterate.

    Socratic, what a hypocrisy that such a deluded and clouded mind would have the gall to choose to associated himself with Socrates. The obvious eludes you, and the vapors consume you.

  • Rachelle

    Taqiyyotomist said:

    “451 I think that she was not really saying that “they do it too, so we can too.”

    I think she was pointing out your hypocrisy, and that of your ideological brethren.

    Where is your criticism directed? One direction only.”

    Thank you! That was exactly my point. It was so simple that the only reason he didn’t get it was because he didn’t want to get it…sort of a forced ignorance.

  • Rachelle

    Socratic said:

    “If you keep waiting around for someone else to act then you are just another follower.”

    That sounds disturbingly like the attitude of the shooter. What are you going to do when you ‘act’ Socratic?

    By the way, ‘not acting’ does not equal ‘follower’.

  • Jim H

    Can I make a suggestion? A. The mass murderer is clearly mentally unbalanced, my guess would be paranoid schizophrenic, which often first appears at about 20. The desire among the right and left to prove concretely that he was/was not acting on a more or less rational political basis will be, I predict, useless. B. But even the weirdoes soak up the times they live in. In the era when labor was violent, one president was assassinated by a demented “revolutionary,” though not one officially part of any party. The ’60s, I admit, were full of people on the left yelling “Off the pigs!” and other provocations. Well, it led to a lot of violence. But these days, the great lead in violent rhetoric goes to the right. Go ahead, get angry with the left. Argue vociferously that they’re wrong. But enough with the confusion of violence and political victory. After all, as you say, we’re a Republic.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I don’t think he wants to get it either. Hasn’t responded to a single of my posts.

    Here, Socratic:

    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/01/krugman-and-kos-idiocy-continues.html

    The Dailykos page which may be the murderer’s, and also some “targetting” graphics SPECIFICALLY TARGETTING GIFFORDS. Unlike Palin’s graphic, which targets the district.

    Of course, Kos and the Democrat party using the same graphics, and using phrases like “Behind Enemy Lines” is OKAY to you, is it not?

  • Socratic

    Taqiyyotomist commented:

    “Please. Socratic. You’re this predictable, and all of your ilk on these forums:”

    “When he confesses that he hates Republicans and the constitution and wanted to kill a politician because she wasn’t lefty enough for him, and that he was fond of communist revolution by violent means, redistribution of wealth, and again repeats that he likes to burn the flag, and post at Kos?

    “What will you say? Pretend it’s tomorrow, and that’s what he said. What do you say?

    ‘You say: “He was coached to say that!” I know. That’s how predictable you are, and how well I know your type.

    “There is NOTHING that will get you to believe that he was a lefty. He was, to you, Rightwing Wacko, or “it doesn’t matter, right, left” when the evidence comes out.

    “As always.

    “15 recounts all go to Bush in FL in 2000, and nope, Bush stole the election, and somehow the Jew media and all the judges and all the recounters are all lying. No amount of evidence is good enough.

    Predictable, is your response on several levels.

    Your telling me what I will say is where it begins.

    Please, stop, you are horrible at omniscience. Actually, I am interested on seeing what he says. If he is a rabid communist (and shoots a congresswoman who voted for “socialized health care) I want to know what was his motivations and influences are and what triggered him. Once I hear the answer to these questions I can respond accordingly. Whereas you have made it clear that you have a vested interest in his actions being motivated and influenced by the radical left as measured by your response. Of course, in he is accountable for his actions.

    In the end, whether he is motivated by left or right, his actions can potentially serve as a catalyst for a change in the tone and tenor of political rhetoric. This is why I am waiting for his the shooter to speak. Then as I stated earlier; And whoever he credits as motivating or influencing him the other side will wait to point fingers and lay responsibility or accountability. And you appears waiting to point your finger.

    Bush v Gore? WOW! Now there is a fine non sequitur!

  • Taqiyyotomist

    “But these days, the great lead in violent rhetoric goes to the right.”

    Name some. Come on, you can do it.

    I got all night.

    You are wrong. Righties hardly even put bumper stickers on their cars anymore, because it’s COMMON KNOWLEDGE that lefties will do something violent either to the driver or to the car.

    SEIU and other thugs routinely beat up dissenters and intimidate them.

    The Rap music industry has nothing BUT violence, all of it directed at the whites, the businesses, the Right.

    You are living in a fantasy world if you believe that the majority of the hatred and violence either comes from the right or is perpetrated by the right.

    So come on, give me some examples, if you would be so kind.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    # 459 JIM H: see my last

    I can’t wait to see your response, Socratic. I’m sure I’ll be not too surprised.

    And that no matter what happens, you will never admit that he was a leftist, motivated by leftist ideology. No matter what, you’ll need more info, or better sources.

  • Rachelle

    SD said:

    “Mussolini did believe and “dabbled” into social darwinism. He stripped Italian Jews of their citizenship and wanted to create a modern Roman Empire”

    Stripping a group of its citizenship is not social darwinism.

    By the way, despite being the ally of Hitler that he was, Mussolini was less harsh to his Jewish population than Vichy France was. Unlike the Vichy government, he didn’t put them on trains and ship them to Nazi death camps if there were any way to avoid it.

    You are pushing the ‘social darwinism’ wet noodle too hard in an attempt to make the real world fit your limited image of it. Give up. It won’t go in.

    By the way, it was the social progressives/socialists in America who most enthusiastically embraced social darwinism and forced sterilization in the early 20th Century. In some respects, Europe acquired their enthusiasm for it from our progressives. They feared a ‘sterilization gap’ between European countries and the US.

    Who is it now who is telling Americans to have fewer children, to abort more often, that humans are an infestation of the planet, etc., etc.? Who is it who is telling us what to eat and what to feed our children? Who is it who is taking our health care decisions from us? Who tries to restrict and regulate speech on the university campus? The answer, of course, to all of these is progressives…socialists. As I asked before, do you really want to live that way? Is your personal imagination so pathetically impoverished that you can’t go through life with out an army of nanny bureaucrats guiding your every step?

  • Socratic

    #458 January 9, 2011 at 1:19 am
    Rachelle commented:

    “That sounds disturbingly like the attitude of the shooter. What are you going to do when you ‘act’ Socratic?

    “By the way, ‘not acting’ does not equal ‘follower’.

    So you are admitting that you think like the shooter? My actions are measured in my words. It is measured by not blaming the conservative equivalents on Kos and Olbermann.

    In this case, your “they do it too” attitude is evidence of one who follows.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Bush v Gore, not at all a nonsequiteur.

    An event for which evidence was offered in order to make a decision. An event which, when proven 14 times to have gone to Bush, was still not believed by the majority of the left, and to this day is repeated by the self-deluded who won’t see what is in front of them.

    A lot like the evidence of this murderer being ignored, such as his hatred for the constitution, his burning of flags, and whatever the hell gets tossed onto the “ignore” pile tomorrow.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Wow. Dude is starting to form his sentences like those of the shooter, in his video.

    Yikes, man.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    “By the way, it was the social progressives/socialists in America who most enthusiastically embraced social darwinism and forced sterilization in the early 20th Century. In some respects, Europe acquired their enthusiasm for it from our progressives. ”

    THIS.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #464 Rachelle

    GREAT COMMENT!

  • Socratic

    #460 January 9, 2011 at 1:23 am
    Taqiyyotomist commented:

    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/01/krugman-and-kos-idiocy-continues.html

    Yeah, I know all about it. Just as I know about Palin’s map with bulls eyes. I also know all about Boy Blue who posts at Kos (if I remember correctly) who posted that they would no longer support Giffords. That post was pulled.

    I know both sides, whereas you have a single point of view. You have proven that you don’t believe that there are anyone with a right-wing political agenda that has perpetuated any actions that would compare with that of the Arizona shooter.

    You aren’t interested in what the shooter’s motivations and influences unless you think they suit your political myopia.

    My preference is to see the nation move away from the extreme rhetoric, regardless.

  • Socratic

    Taqiyyotomist commented:

    “Bush v Gore, not at all a nonsequiteur.”

    A non sequitur. It does not follow.

  • Rachelle

    Taqiyyotomist commented:

    Wow. Dude is starting to form his sentences like those of the shooter, in his video.

    Yikes, man.”

    By the dude I assume you mean the person writing as Socratic. If so, I agree. He is beginning to sound a bit pathological. I notice that after boasting of the importance of ‘acting’ he quickly retreated to the claim that his ‘acts’ were only words. Too bad for him, because his words don’t amount to much either. SD, on the other hand, is at least attempting to make an argument; he is working on the issues, although he hasn’t yet let go of his delusion that ‘true’ socialism is good. I wonder where he got that idea? Probably high school teachers. It hasn’t hit him yet that ‘true’ socialism is the socialism that you get on earth in contrast to something in a Platonic, ideal world. Though, to tell the truth, Plato’s ideal society didn’t sound very desirable either. If I remember correctly, when he actually tired to impose his ideal on the citizens of Syracuse they gave it a try and then kicked his butt out. That’s how socialism works–an ideal system for suckering people into living miserably.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    I’m about done with him, anyway. He’s rewording what I’m saying to him and repeating it back to me with more flowery language.

    Like he’s playing a game.

    I feel like I’m conversing with “ELIZA” from the 80’s.

    Yes, I misspelled non sequitur. I know what the fk it means, jagoff.

    And I pretty much explained to you, as clearly as I know, THAT IT DOES FOLLOW.

    But you didn’t adress that, because you’re a pedantic prick. Goodnight.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    “You have proven that you don’t believe that there are anyone with a right-wing political agenda that has perpetuated any actions that would compare with that of the Arizona shooter.”

    Despite that this isn’t one of them, becuase there is NO GODDAMN EVIDENCE that today’s shooting is one of them. None whatsoever. Oooh, an Orwell book and a Rand book. That cinches it, he’s a righty. Who burns the flag and hates the constitution.

    I’ve done none of what you say I’ve “proven”, since we were never even discussing any “comparable” event to that of today’s shooting. If so, your standards of ‘proof’ are pretty much arbitrary, apparantly.

  • sd

    Rachelle,

    1. Mussolini stripped Italian Jews of their citizenship. Hitler did the same with German Jews. They both removed the “weak” from the “strong” in each country. If they have no citizenship, they cannot be considered German or Italian. Pretty sure that is what is defined as social darwinism, where only the “strong” survive. However Hitler went to the extreme and killed off the “weak” ensuring his new country would only be populated by true “strong” Germans. And yes, for once you are right in that Mussolini did not want to kill them. However Vichy France was set up by and acted as a front for the Nazis who were very active in France and had a physical presence there, at least more so than in Italy during the early 1940’s. Vichy France really had no choice as to whether or not they sent Jews to the camps since German officers and Hitler were responsible for what went on there as they set the policies. Italy was an ally of Nazi Germany so it was hard for the Germans to exert the same kind of control that they had over France, a conquered nation. It wasn’t until 1943 when the Germans moved into Italy to counter the Allied advances in northern Africa did the Italians begin to send off Jews to the camps. And I am not pushing this “noodle”. You are forgetting to state the facts so I am trying to help you out.

    2. Here’s a quote from Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of America and who also helped write the Constitution: “I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”
    Sounds like Jefferson believed in progressivism to some degree. And no I don’t want to live that way. I hate a lot of the laws that are in place already. But to believe that big government is out to get us is absurd. I mean trying to provide healthier options to a population whose obesity rates are skyrocketing is absolutely terrible. We shouldn’t let the government have control over that…they should be allowed to stuff their faces with friend and artificial foods if they want. Shame on them for trying to prevent early death and protecting our country. JK!

  • sd

    fatty*, not friend

  • Simply Saline

    A very sad day for the Country. I reckon promoting statist propaganda has its collateral costs. On this day such a cost was realized by a nation so clearly in decline. Today yet another disillusioned and very confused young person that read excessive ideological literature acted out . He shall die for it I think, or worse.

    I do find it interesting that so many posters refer to the Progressive National Socialist Idea as being “Right Wing” in its tenants. All statist Ideologies are leftist in orientation, yes, even Neo-Conservatism with its soft tyranny, stealthy collectivism and young to elderly redistribution is left of center. Both branches of the Tree clearly love big Government and are quite happy in their innumerate nirvana.

    Libertarians, Capitalists, and Anarchist occupy the right alone in their puny but honest glory. In any event, attempting to assign this young man with his confused childish mind to a group is impossible and at best speculation. I doubt he knew what he was. I certainly did not at Twenty-two years of age. Let the revisionist sanitizers and propagandizing shills have him.

    But I do hope we can all agree to hope this is an isolated event and not the beginning of what we all fear may some day happen to OUR country. God Bless.

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  • Rachelle

    SD,

    Stripping a group of its citizenship, or some rights of citizenship, is not social darwinism. Many legal residents in the US are not citizens yet they are not tossed into an arena ‘where only the strong survive.’ In short, you push your social darwinism argument too far.

    In any event, your original point was that fascists were social darwinists and progressives were not. It makes no difference whether Mussolini’s Italy met even your rather loose description of a state based on social darwinism. My point was that American progressives of the same era actually did push social darwinism and moved from ideas to acts by sterilizing the unfit as they saw them. It is instructive to remember that the beloved progressive, Margaret Sanger, saw population control as a means of reducing the number of black people whom she described as ‘human weeds.’ The beloved progressive, Karl Marx, was virulently racist in his remarks about black people, but you seldom see that quoted these days. Frankly, I think that Mussolini’s wrong of taking away citizenship was less outrageous than the wrongs of American progressives who pushed involuntary sterilization. Which would you rather lose, your citizenship or your testicles?

    As for Vichy France and the Nazis, it is useful to remember that until very late in the war Vichy France was not occupied by the Germans. That’s why the capital was Vichy rather than Paris [which was occupied]. You should also know that unoccupied Vichy France proved all too willing to ship Jewish citizens to Nazi death camps.

    As for Jefferson, don’t confuse his love of progress with an affection for nanny-state, socialist progressive philosophy. They are entirely different. The similarity in words has thrown you into the error of thinking they mean the same thing. Also, don’t try to use an appeal to authority [even when the authority agrees with you] as proof of a position. Technically, it is a logical fallacy.

    Your view of ‘trying to provide healthier OPTIONS to a population whose obesity rate is skyrocketing….etc, etc.” has you unwittingly stepping right up to my point. The government isn’t trying to provide OPTIONS. It is trying to control us by taking our OPTIONS away. You think some lard butt like Michelle Obama is a better judge of what you should eat than you are, yourself? If you want these people to decide what you eat, do you also want them to decide what you read? What you say? Where you go? What you can see? What you can think? Well, probably not much lost on the last item because you are not thinking this through very clearly. I will give you this, however, unlike the Socrates poster, you are intellectually honest in attempting to present a fair argument based on your assumptions and facts. When your assumptions actually catch up with your facts, you will probably understand what I have been saying. Better call the government first though, and see if it is ‘good for you’ to wonder about such things.

  • jim

    This guy was massively schizo. None of it really makes any sense. For you people to demonize one side or another because some idiot schizo who’s been holed up for 3 years went on a shooting spree proves that you’re too freakin brainwashed to view the world without some half educated, biased, talking pundit head haze blurring your vision.

    As far as I can tell this guy shot all these people because of grammar. Yes, grammar. He said “only 8% of district 8’s population are literate” which is obviously some number he came up with. He’s obsessed with grammar and thinks anyone who doesn’t understand his schizo rants are illiterate. He thinks the government is controlling grammar and people should be able to add letters to the alphabet at their personal choosing. He also goes on about how people should have their own currency and only following the original constitution, how police officers are unconstitutional, and how college is unconstitutional.

    Does this seem like a Tea party member or Move on. org follower? NO Jarod Loughner is a freakin idiot schizo a-hole.

  • CharlyGuerra

    The Miami Herald has reported that the murderer had among his books favorties one entitled ‘The Entity’ of Eric Frattini, on the Catholic Church. Anyone know?

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  • XEOAFEA EOI

    Listen to you all, making sure you say 40,000,000 times that the shooter was not a right wing nut job. You’re pathetic.

  • Brandon Delaney

    SD: Where has socialism not been “hijacked or taken over by elites, who end up ruling for long periods of time and using the state and its power for their own ends.” Like most Western liberal elites, you seem to think that the only problem with socialism is that it hasn’t been tried out in the right place yet.

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  • The Dark Knight

    Weird that this girl wants all this attention… didn’t this guy not have hardly any friends. She’s probably a right wing nut that wants to make sure the right wing didn’t have nothing to do with this. Because you’re in class with someone doesn’t mean you know them … If you were such a good friend, how come you didn’t see this coming? In regards to the crosshairs from Sarah Palin, I don’t think it’s her fault.. it is purely that young man’s fault, however, political figures like Palin need to take this as a lesson learned that what you say can influence others.

  • cherry shiva

    calling hitler left-wing is hilarious and awfully misleading. the word socialist is so misused it doesn’t mean anything anymore. a murderous fascist dictator by any identity is hell on earth; a murderous gun toting nut-job by any identity is a tragic failure. what made this kid snap? mk-ultra? left right illusions? brain chemistry? the human condition? let’s get real here, it’s not simplistic politics, it’s biology and psychology. terrible and stupid.

  • Henry Hawkins

    At the end of a press conference President Obama ill-advisedly took a question about the Skip Gates affair, famously stating words to the effect, “I don’t have all the facts, but the police clearly acted stupidly.” For opining without the facts in hand, Obama was properly excoriated by conservatives everywhere and more than a couple lefties acknowledged the gaffe in his premature and biased judgment.

    Clearly, neither libs nor conservatives learned a thing from this and the hypocrisy is knee deep on both sides.

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  • GrayRider

    Have you seen the shooter’s favorite video on his YouTube account titled: “America: Your Last Memory in a Terrorist Country”? It looks to be self produced. It’s hardly the work of a Tea Partier or Conservative. Here it is if you can stomach it:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw

  • FedUpWithHate

    You know what, it was wrong of me to single out any group. The political discourse in general is the problem. If we treat the left and the right as mortal enemies, then we are doomed to tear down this country. When a tragedy like this, the fort hood shooting, 9/11, ok city bombing happen, we have these battles of who’s to blame. When do we decide to rise above it and work together to prevent it?

    This guy needed someone to be there for him and probably with medical care, but somehow that got overlooked. We could all benefit from listening to those around us, not just hearing and ignoring them or calling them crazy.

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  • mark

    he also loves Mein Kampf. you’re clutching at straws. . he’s a terrorist, an extremist, but mostly he’s a LUNATIC. thanks for only adding obfuscation to the argument.

  • Jeffery

    What do you expect We, the People, to do when the democrats and their socialist, fascist, brown-shirt, leader Nobama rams the debacle Obamacare down real American’s throats against the will of We, the People? Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin have made it clear to us that Obama is an illegitimate president interested only in taking over America and real Americans and turning it over to those who don’t deserve it. He and the dhimmicrats want to redistribute the wealth of We, the People, to those too lazy to work, who want to accept democrat handouts in exchange for their votes so they can rule America.

    Obamacare is a debacle that will kill us all by Death Panels!! Death Panels!!

    Second Amendment Solutions!!

    powder is dry….

  • FedUpWithHate

    Second amendment solutions? @Jeffrey, are you condoning this event???

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  • Rachelle

    Jeffrey sounds like a phony. In fact, he sounds like a poorly disguised Kos poster.

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  • Rachelle

    Final comment–

    Enough information has come in about the shooter to make it reasonably certain that he was a nut and, in particular, a left wing, progressive nut.

    The media’s stampede to pin this on Gov. Palin or the Tea Party was a professional embarrassment after their reluctance to associate the Fort Hood jihadist with Islam.

    Does anyone believe after this that the legacy media is anything but a propaganda machine for leftist politics?

    Even the Democrats and Progressives (Commies) prefer to watch Fox News when they want to find out what is really happening.

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  • Phil

    Mein Kampf one of his favorite books
    Guns down a Jewish democratically elected politician.
    Allegedly tried to beat up Jews at high school.

    Sounds more like a Nazi than anything else

  • FedUpWithHate

    @rachelle

    You just don’t get it. Like there are two poles to a magnet, there are two poles to politics, and the extremes from both ends are tearing at the fabric of our society, setting off time bombs like this guy. Polarizing statements only lead to more of this nonsense.

    Anyone who gets all of their information from a single source is going to be misled at some point.

  • Cutitout

    Let’s see….
    1.White Male
    2.22 years old
    3.Loved Mein Kampf (book KKK and skinheads love as well-both groups are NOT liberal)
    4.Publically hated people who don’t speak english. (Doesn’t align with liberalism)
    5.Posted on Youtube that he hated our current government administration (Which would be Obama’s)
    6.Posted on Youtube that currency without gold is useless (Same thing Glenn Beck preaches EVERY NIGHT)
    7.Had a picture on his Myspace page with a gun on top of the constitution (Hmmm… Doesn’t sound like liberal symbolism. GUNS? Hmmm who loves guns?)
    8.Doesn’t trust the government (Sounds like anti-government rhetoric, very un-liberal)
    9.Murdered a woman who recently beat out a tea party candidate (No comment)
    10. Was quoted in saying that he wanted to start a revolution by killing anyone associated with the ACLU and the Tide foundation (both liberal foundations)
    11.Tagged “Sarah Palin” on his Youtube page
    12.Another favorite book was Farrenheit 451, a book that discusses decreasing government’s role in terms of censorship (A Tea Party mantra)
    13.Quoted to say: “Don’t trust the current government, listener!”
    14. Giffords’ Republican opponent in the 2 November race for a seat in the House of Representatives was Jesse Kelly. He had held a campaign event in which he invited his supporters to “Get on Target for Victory in November”. He asked them to “Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office – shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly.”

    So I mean, if we want to discuss facts, let’s do more than quote a girl who “barely knew him” and hasn’t seen him in 5 years shall we? Also, I think we’d all do better to just agree for now that this man was CRAZY, and not attempt to pin him on any political movement until more facts come out. This is a sad day in America.

  • Militant Conservative

    #507 January 9, 2011 at 2:31 pm
    FedUpWithHate commented:

    Dunce, you don’t even know how the country was founded.
    1/3 was for the revolution, 1/3 against and 1/3 sat on the fence.

    This shooting was wrong and not a civil society action. Yet this is what the president and his advisors want. We the conservatives are the peacefull lot. the left is the hate filled pot of excrement. People are not polar opposites. It is easy to give to the “needy” when you redistribute other peoples money. Try giving on your own dime and see how that feels. This is the problem. Government IS the problem not the solution. Government likes chaos as it takes away freedom during these nasty random events. Watch the socialist in the WH call for some kind of restriction on guns. Guranteed to happen. Yet lawfull people would not have done this. Love,money and power are the three motivations of man. Obama does not even know me. So his motivations are money and POWER. He’s human, and it is our job to limit ALL POLITICIANS.
    The second amendment was for we the people to protect ourselves from those in government. Sorry, every now and again a nut/looney gets access to a gun. At that point I bet you’d wish you had a gun. But no, your leftards rely of government to save you.

    WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE COPS ARE MINUTES AWAY.
    firearms, the original point and click interface.
    I am the weapon, the gun is just a tool. powder is dry.

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  • FedUpWithHate

    @militant conservative,

    You must be joking. Do you understand leverage? Even with this event, Obama couldn’t win support to enact tougher gun control. To suggest that Obama wouldd want this is just another typical and proposterous suggestion by someone who doesn’t like the president. It’s similar to nonsense people said about Bush. If it’s not from the right, it’s from the left…

    You hang out with your fear of government and your musket. I’ll continue to help people live a full life and enjoy it while I’m blessed to have it. Oh, and giving that dime, or check rather, it feels good. And giving my time, that feels even better. If you haven’t, you should try.

    @cutitout,

    Sarah palin and Glenn beck did not do this, nor did hitler, Stalin, etc. This is society missing warning signs, and no one treating a mixed up guy.

  • Rachelle

    Fed up with hate said that just as there are two poles to a magnet, there are two poles in politics, etc., etc.

    Who taught you to think so simplisticly? Why two poles like a magnet? Why not like three legs on a stool? Why not like 100 legs as on a centipede?

    What about the part of the magnet that is midway between the poles?

    Where does Islam’s hatred of Western civilization fit in your scheme?

    Where would Japan’s militaristic society during WW II fit?

    Where would the ideas of the gangs of thugs infesting Haiti and Mexico fit in with your notion?

    You really make me despair of our public education system. How long have we been churning out such ignoramuses?

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  • FedUpWithHate

    @rachelle,

    Sure, there are two access models with 4 quadrants… You can nitpick about metaphores all you want…

    The problem is coming from polar opposites bickering back and forth about who is the problem. Meanwhile, some misguided soul like this killer gets bad ideas from both sides slips by us and does damage.

    How about addressing the message instead of parsing words?

  • anon

    Frank Coniff from MST3K tweeted this: “Hey, Sarah Palin, hows that hatey, killy, reloady, chrosshairsy thing working out for ya?”
    You betcha!

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  • Rachelle

    Fed Up With Hate said:

    :You can nitpick about metaphores all you want…

    It isn’t a question of arguing about a metaphor. In this case perhaps metaphors should not be used at all. In any event using a metaphor that describes only two possible poles in a very complex situation simply limits your ability to understand anything.

    Basically, you are reducing your mental resolution. You are using a two pixel brain to examine a multipixel image. You chose to destroy any chance you might have had of actually understanding what you are thinking about.

    You don’t get it and you will never get it until you up your resolution. Dump the metaphors.

  • “Only the elimination of all conservative Christians will allow all Americans to be free and the world to no longer have to live in fear of the U.S.A.’s imperialist, terrorist holy war. The conservative ideology has never helped mankind in any way, it has not only never helped mankind in anyway, it has oppressed, murdered, raped and killed all those in it’s way to gain power. History shows us this. Fact shows us this. James Madison, the “Father of the U.S. Constitution”, along with many founders of this country, regardless of their religious or non-religious affiliations, knew keeping politics and religion separate not only preserves each, but helps them flourish: “The number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church and the State.”

  • Steerpike

    There has been some commentary in a few of the more upscale papers, which, by the way, have also seized upon the opportunity to further politicize the reasons for the Tucson shootings, to the extent that copies of the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf found in Jared Lee Loughner’s belongings automatically classify him and/or his political views as left-wing–in the extreme. Did it occur to these people that he might have simply wanted to read these texts for the sake of knowing what they have to say? Well, if that is the type of reasoning that is being proffered as sound by the mighty media magnates, then the fact that he shot a congresswoman of the Democratic persuasion makes Loughner a card carrying, stark raving mad Republican. I would hope for a little more ability in organizing rational thought from members of the press.

  • Rachelle

    Steerpike assumes that the shooter must be right leaning because of his choice of books.

    Steerpike doesn’t understand the news reports that describe the shooter as a leftist.

    Simple, Steerpike, they are beginning to describe the shooter as a leftist because that is what he seemed to his associates in school who had a chance to interact with him and it is how they describe him. The don’t need to pick apart his library to guess what he might be.

    The killer is another lefty/progressive nut.

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  • Steve21

    Why would he attack a liberal if he WAS a liberal?

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  • Rachelle

    Steve 21 asked:

    “Why would he attack a liberal if he WAS a liberal?”

    Fair question. In fact, she was conservative on some issues, like illegal immigration, and she was one of the Dem holdouts who refused to vote for Nancy Pelosi as minority leader.

    That vote, in particular, ignited rage on Kos. If you were to look at some of those postings [if they haven’t all been scrubbed yet] you would see that that branch of Progressives absolutely despised her. One remark was, “she’s dead to me”. It wouldn’t surprise me if the shooter’s computer records showed he posted regularly on Kos. Have to wait and see for that.

    The other thing was that this nut ball had an apolitical grievance against her that was longstanding–predated the Tea Party, in fact. Just a guess on my part, but I suspect that when he met her in the past he spouted his nonsense and then became enraged when he didn’t get an adoring response from her. Who knows, but he hated her, specifically, for some while.

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  • Steve21

    I also saw that he was very anti-immigration, possibly involved with a white supremacy group. That doesn’t fit the liberal profile. A lot of attention has been drawn to his reading the Communist Manifesto (could be construed as radical), but he also read Mein Kamph (last I checked, liberals don’t read Hitler, white supremacists do.

    Clearly, he was mentally ill, I just don’t get the logic behind a liberal assassin taking out a liberal political figure. Seems like he would have picked a right-winger.

  • FedUpWithHate

    @Rachelle,

    Yes, you can look at the political spectrum as a four quadrant system and have an infinite number of points that fit in them… The point is the talking heads at the extreme edges are driving a polarizing discourse and you and your pal steerpike are carrying it on.

    We need to raise the discourse above this perpetual blame game. We need to say, we won’t let you tear us a part to these deranged people.

  • FedUpWithHate

    Steve, how do we no he isn’t an anarchist which in the politcal spectrum is neither left nor right, each of which has some boundaries… It’s all conjecture at this point. A few words on a blog or profile and a few people’s opinions of them are not exactly strong evidence…

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  • Steve21

    My primary concern, and point of contention, is that the right-wing blogosphere and pundits are quick, VERY quick, to label him as liberal, when it doesn’t make sense that he would attack a liberal. It seems to be quite a stretch, especially with the anti-immigration and anti-health care stance. Will be interesting to see what else comes out.

  • WinRec

    Mein Kampf is right wing. Hitler was a right wing extremist.

  • Rachelle

    Steve 21 said:

    “Clearly, he was mentally ill, I just don’t get the logic behind a liberal assassin taking out a liberal political figure. Seems like he would have picked a right-winger.”

    You really need to read your own sentence: You ‘just don’t get the logic [of someone who clearly] was mentally ill.’

    Why should you…unless you were mentally ill yourself? In that event I suppose he would make sense to you.

    His associates say he was a leftist and, apparently, a 9/11 truther. What his associates say is likely to be a more reliable guide to his temperament than any guess you make on his reading list. The idea that he was associated with a white supremacist group was leaked from the 0 administration and hasn’t been demonstrated yet. They have their own ax to grind in this and haven’t been noted for honesty in the past.

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  • sd

    Rachelle,

    I don’t get what legal residents of the United States have to do with it. Mussolini was stripping the citizenship of current Italian citizens, not legal residents. Furthermore, he was doing it so he could say that Italy was filled with true ethnic Italians who would help return Rome to its former glory when ‘Germany and Italy won the War’. Sounds like he was trying to remove undesirables from the population so stronger generations would be produced.

    But you are right to say that Vichy France was only under direct occupation in the north. But it is also important to realize that all of France was under the direct jurisdiction of the Nazis. The rest of France that was not occupied by the Germans directly was left in charge to Petain who was placed there by the Nazis. So obviously un-occupied areas of Vichy France would send Jews to death camps because the were collaborators in a sense.

    However, I do not understand where you are getting this idea that Obama and his so called “socialist Nazis” want to control everything you do. And they are providing options. Kids can still eat whatever crap they want. I really don’t understand what is so bad about trying to encourage, not force, healthy eating habits. And this isn’t a left wing plot to destroy the American mind. America’s top generals are worried that with the eating habits of today’s youth, there will be a population of unfit men to fill our ranks, putting our national security at risk. And if they were trying to control what we said, political blogs across the entire political spectrum would not exist like in China. What evidence is there that proves that they want to control what we think?

  • FedUpWithHate

    Wow… Sd and Rachelle… If opposites attract, you two are a perfect match… You are displaying the rush to judgement and conspiracy theory nonsense that is the problem today. Obama is not trying to kill old people. Bush was trying to do the correct thing. I’d love to see how you all would handle running the country… That would be a show….

    Suggesting our administration wants innocent people to die shows a complete lack of respect for our democracy and the victims. Sarah palin did not pull the trigger. Maybe she’ll reexamine her use of crosshairs in campaigns because she is human and capable of fixing her mistakes… Get over yourself Americans and work together.

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  • Chris

    Yeah Hitler and the nazis were liberal. Intense patriotism, extreme faith of leadership if their own political party said it, inciting violence towards others, dislike if political oppositions’ policies, affinity for war, militarism, use of Christianity to win votes, always looking for an enemy to blame, denouncing political opposition as un patriotic, torture is accepted, etc… Wait a minute this explains why I met some A.B. at the last tea party I was at. A.B. are neo-nazis by the way. When are people who can’t stand African Americans and race mixing are going to support Mr. Obama.

  • Steve21

    There are levels, degrees of mental illness; not everyone who is mentally ill is psychotic, or has lost complete touch with reality.

    Speaking of losing touch with reality, if ANYONE thinks that the Obama administration rushed to “leak” some information about his ties to a white supremacy group, they’re really reaching.

    And here’s some of the language used in our current political climate; I removed the speaker’s names to let the words stand on their own (but I can post them later if needs be). The point is, what are the consequences of this sort of rhetoric? And I don’t think anyone can/should go so far as to say that this sort of language CAUSED the shooting.

    “I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people — we the people — are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”

    “I hope that’s not where we’re going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I’ll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.”

    ”Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don’t think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms.”

    ”I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. … No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.”

    PHOENIX — About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday — the latest incident in which protesters have openly displayed firearms near the president.

    ”My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”

    ”We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals.”

    ”I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country.”

    ”He has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity.”
    —_________ on _____’s decision to fund international family planning organizations that support legal abortion, Sept. 26, 2009

    ‎ ”The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

    ”The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel.”’

  • Steve21

    FoxNews reported the link between the shooter and the White Supremacist Organization.

    http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/01/09/dhs-memo-suggests-shooter-may-be-linked-racist-organization#ixzz1AZIlbPAu

  • Rachelle

    Steve 21 said:

    “Speaking of losing touch with reality, if ANYONE thinks that the Obama administration rushed to “leak” some information about his ties to a white supremacy group, they’re really reaching.”

    Fox news did report the shooter ‘MAY BE linked’ story based on information provided by the 0 administration. However, the racist organization in question says they never heard of the shooter and he is not on their lists. The investigators admitted they have found no actual link to the racist group, but they are looking into it. Sounds like they are hunting for propaganda pieces rather than investigating the crime.

    What the shooter does have links to is the the Democratic party. He volunteered to help Gifford’s previous campaign for Congress. Now it appears that Che Guevara is one of his favorite people. Remember that one of the offices supporting 0’s presidential bid had posters of Che Guevara on the wall.

    Part of the responsibility for this horror rests with the progressive approach to severe mental illness, beginning with Thomas Szasz’ ‘Myth of Mental Illness’ and the movement to ‘mainstream’ the seriously mentally ill by turning them out of institutions. That is one of the big progressive ideas that led to so many mentally ill living under the freeway overpass in some communities and to some of them committing occasional atrocities. Almost everyone who came in contact with the shooter realized he was unbalanced and many thought it was just a matter of time before he hurt someone, but nothing was done. In that respect the case is similar to the Virginia Tech killer–nobody who knew him was surprised. Try to get treatment for a dangerous person like that, however, and the ACLU will be in your face.

  • Rachelle

    Not to gloat too much, but I speculated very early on [see above] that the shooter’s antipathy to Cong. Giffords may well have arisen when she didn’t respond the way he expected when he met her on previous occasions. Suddenly his attraction for her [he worked for her re-election] switched to obsessive hatred.

    Now it turns out that what I guessed at really did occur.

    He was an unstable and dangerous person and it was a shame something wasn’t done earlier. There were plenty of warning signs. The loud-mouth sheriff of Pima County seems anxious to blame everything but his own incompetence.

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  • Steve21

    So he may be an obsesssed fan, and political motivation is of no consequence; which is why it is even more troubling that the right wing was so quick paint him as a leftist. The left wing doing the same, I can almost understand (he DID shoot at a liberal congresswoman).

    And the so-called “progressive approach” to mental illness revolved around de-institutionalization, which required halfway houses and outpatient services for former mental patients upon their release. Of course, there was no funding for these programs (someone else’s agenda), or funding was cut, and the mentally ill had nowhere to go (except for under the overpasses).

  • stann

    There is no reason to believe that this guy was an atheist whatsoever. Along with the Communist Manifesto, his favorites included Mein Kampf (which is laden with pro-Christian statements) and one of Tea Party favorite Ayn Rand’s books, which brings me to the next point.

    Laughner did not say the reason he would not “trust in god” was because he was an atheist. He said he would not trust money not based on the Gold Standard. I’ve met many a Conservative Christian who feels the same, including Ron Paul.

    He may have not been thrilled to have been handed a Gideon Bible while waiting to enlist, but I assure, it’s not just atheist recruits who feel that way. Who knows how many of them wind up in the garbage once the recruits leave.

    Even if Laughner turns out to be one of the increasing number of nonbelievers in the U.S., there is no evidence that such lead to what he did. Way too many people are forgeting religiously inspired terrorist attacks as of late. Also, there still are no apologies forthcoming for calling James Von Brunn an atheist who, even though he was vehemently anti-Christian, turned out to prefer the war-like gods of Germany’s past.

    I have every expectation that even though there are non-believing tea partiers (Ayn Rand was an atheist) and conservatives (George Will, David Horowitz, Andrew Breitbart, S.E. Cupp), FOX will still beat this little drum, evidence be damned (kind of like with God).

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  • bg

    ++

    Steve21 #547

    no, we were/are countering/defending ourselves against the immediate
    prog-dem-libs insinuations/accusations that he was a “victim” of right
    wing rhetoric, when the opposite is much closer to the truth.. not to
    mention his “mental” condition did not manifest itslef happen over-night,
    it has to be based on some political theology, as he wrote he was going
    to go into the political information business, whatever that means, albeit
    in the abstract, politics was definitely entrenched in his demented mind..

    ==

  • bg

    ++

    stann #548

    heh, “beat” this..

    Frances Fox Piven Rings in The New
    Year By Calling for Violent Revolution

    [She’s considered by many as the grandmother of using the American welfare state to implement revolution. Make people dependent on the government, overload the government rolls, and once government services become unsustainable, the people will rise up, overthrow the oppressive capitalist system, and finally create income equality. Collapse the system and create a new one. [.]

    In a chilling and almost unbelievable editorial again in The Nation (”Mobilizing the Jobless,” January 10/17, 2011 edition), she calls on the jobless to rise up in a violent show of solidarity and force. As before, those calls are dripping with language of class struggle. Language she and her late husband Richard Cloward made popular in the 60s.

    “So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations,
    sit-ins and unruly mobs?” she writes.[.]

    “[T]he out-of-work have to stop blaming themselves for their hard times
    and turn their anger on the bosses, the bureaucrats or the politicians who
    are in fact responsible.”

    Only then, once their rage has been properly stoked, can the angry take
    action. And when they do, sh[e] says, the “protesters need targets.”

    For Piven, the best “targets” are the people or organizations “capable of
    making some kind of response to angry demands.” Regular demands, notice,
    just won’t do. No, people must be fired up and not easily deterred. Angry
    and not quickly placated.[.]

    seems to me that Jared and Frances have a lot in “creative”
    common, they also repeat their “creative” selves quite often..

    the only reason i can think of as to why the idiots can’t see
    the writing on the wall is, they are the ones writing on it..

    which, in turn, is why they see us as being the idiots, and so far i have to
    agree, also wouldn’t say we (the American people) have the advantage at
    the moment, and imho, it’s only going to worsen.. 🙁

    ==

  • bg
  • bg

    ++

    ps: check this out..

    ==

  • Rachelle

    The Washington Post is reporting now that a DHS official admits that they have found NO link between the shooter and a right wing group that was previously named.

    So why did they suggest there was a link?

    Have they ever said immediately after a jihadi attack [or attempt] that they were looking for links to a specific mosque or to Islam?

    Actually, they bend over backwards to avoid mentioning Islam or anything connected with it.

    This sleezy administration just had investigators searching for propaganda pieces, not evidence when they hinted at links to right wing nut groups.

    One thing for sure, if they find that this depraved killer was also fond of Islam and thinking of converting we will never hear of it. And if we do, they will be telling us ‘not to jump to conclusions’ and that Islam is a religion of peace.

  • bg

    ++

    WinRec #532

    oh yes, i meant to ask, exactly what does that mean,
    that Hitler was a Capitalist or what?? /extreme sarc/

    ==

  • bg

    ++

    Rachelle #554

    who knows, they weren’t even finished counting the bodies & it was
    PALIN’S fault.. they are venomous & hypocritical beyond the pale..

    ==

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  • Rachel

    This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. He’s a twenty-two year old guy! His politics, whatever they may be, are barely formed and at that age, many guys do things just to be cool or just to shock people. We know he enjoyed shocking or upsetting people and all of these books (which would blow the mind of any twenty-two year old if he actually read them) look really good in a list of books you like if you’re trying to shock people. Burning the flag usually gets people riled up too. So does shouting random things out in class or in public.

    If anything, this proves that he was or wanted to be radical. So it just depends on who you view as radical and most of the right seems to think the left is radical. I, however, have been a liberal for twenty years — since I’ve been voting age — and I’ve never read the Communist Manifesto, I don’t know anyone who’s read it and I have no interest in communism. Drawing that connection is as saying he liked to eat fried chicken so he must be African-American.

    This is a lame attempt by the right to avoid being associated with the vitriol and violence coming out of Fox News, Sarah Palin, and members of the Tea Party, among others. No one’s buying it. His Facebook page said Sarah Palin was one of the people he admired most and he had a history of harassing people, including Giffords. The FBI has proof that it was premeditated and that Giffords was the target. And since they are building the case against him, this crap on the Internet from an anonymous Tweeter who claims to know him is irrelevant.

  • Brian

    So he’s not a tea bagger, but based on his favorite books he’s definitely not a liberal/progressive. I mean Ayn Rand, Hitler, and Plato were hardly communists (in fact they were basically some of the most staunch anti-communist voices around, except Plato, who predates communism by about 2 millenia). Hitler killed communists, and neo-nazis HATE commies, so claiming that Mein Kampf is somehow evidence of incipient communism is crazy.

    And I’m sorry, Brave New World AND Animal Farm were written as criticisms of authoritarian communism, so if anything there were 4 or 5 anti-communist books on his list for 1 communist book. Though it seems that the stories in Huxley’s/Orwell’s books can be applied to many capitalist democracies as well in terms of describing systems where accumulation of power enables rampant abuse and systemic decay.

    So you cherry pick titles from a list of favorite books and red-bait like McCarthy’s reincarnation. I mean if he had 5 Chomsky books listed and the George Bush book listed, would that mean he’s a conservative? It’s just bad logic, plain and simple. On top of it all it’s just the same old ‘red team/blue team’ politics that we hear on the ‘lamestream’, reductionist and infantile.

    I mean you could also look at his comments about the gold currency standard, and point out that every conservative talk show host/television host has those ridiculous ads telling everyone to buy gold! What liberal/progressive advocates for the gold standard?

  • Rachelle

    Rachel said:

    “His Facebook page said Sarah Palin was one of the people he admired most ”

    Like many liberals, you are unable to keep your facts straight or keep up to date. You stop when you find what you want. ‘His’ Facebook page went up shortly after the shooting and has been unmasked as a fraud. Doubtless put up by more leftists trying to twist the story away from the truth.

    The killer was a pot-head lefty who admired Che Guevara and who volunteered to work for Democrats on political campaigns.

    You folks own him. He is one of yours and always has been.

    By the way, if 22 is too young for someone to form sound political views [as you seem to suggest] maybe we should raise the voting age to about 35.

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  • Rachelle

    Brian attempts in 559 to judge the shooter’s politics by his library.

    Brian, that is simply stupid. Probably you read only books that agree with your present biases, but many people read a wide variety of books. I have a lot of books on religion, and yet I am not religious. Who taught you that you should only read books that agree with your pre-existing views?

    Whatever books he had, for whatever reason he had them, the uniform impression of those who actually knew him was that he was a pot head, liberal.

    You can’t beat personal knowledge with guesswork from a library list.

    By the way, if you look at the photos of the little shrine in his backyard, there is no Gadsden flag there. He burned American flags. That, too, points to his being one of your lot.

  • Rachelle

    Brian said: “So he’s not a tea bagger”

    Since you seem familiar with the term ‘tea bagging’, Brian, is it safe to say that that is a part of your personal lifestyle, something you like to do? Never mind, I won’t ask if you won’t tell.

  • Bob

    Communist manifesto- yes. But mein kamp? Don’t be silly, that’s far right stuff.

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  • Steve21

    In his own words, he repeatedly talks about not trusting the government, or money not backed by the gold standard; if we HAD to assign him a side, left or right, where would he fall? I just think it’s odd that the right rushed so quickly to put him on the left, when he was anti-government (the same one that liberals blindly trust in, see Obama’s approval rating among liberals for evidence), AND he targeted a democrat.

    He probably has some form of schizophrenia, judging from the incoherent ramblings he posted.

  • NMN

    It’s nice to see we have all learned from this… I bet if you any two of you who seem to hate one another on this page, met on the street, you would discuss the weather and how you are looking forward to the weekend, and you would find one another perfectly pleasant and agreable. in truth, there is not that much difference between republicans and democrats. we are all just people. there is no evil agenda. all the rhetoric is there to accentuate the differences and demonize the opposition so that you will pick one side or another. Its dividing our country and giving people who would normally find one another perfectly pleasant a reason to hate one another. but in the end, life is not that affected by who is in power. its just perception. if you allow the truth of your existance to be dictated by someone else, you can be convinced that you are miserable even if you are warm, well fed, loved, and live a gratifying life. Why would you give that power to someone else?

  • William R. Catton, Jr.

    He also lists “Among the Living” by Ayn Rand as one of his favorite books which is the most ANTI-communist manifesto every written. Quit grasping at straws, people.

  • vastthoughty

    Whatever Jared L.Laoughner wrote is not real logics. Language is an abstraction :perception
    analysis, interpretation , ideas, concepts and belief integration in a personal mental frame.
    One acts and reacts to whatever one has come to think is the reality and truth. God, angels,
    demons, heaven, hell, right, wrong, good, bad, just, unjust, laws, religion, etc.
    Sentences, statements are mental elaborations. It may be possible Mr.Loughner intentionally fabricated this incoherent phrases in order to fool others with his ” insanity appearance “…and get away with murdering his political targets !

  • FedUpWithHate

    Enjoy dancing on people’s graves to score political points. You are all calous, bickering children. Just keep on doing what has destroyed respect in America. I’ll be off trying to do something useful.

  • Steve21

    FedUpWithHate: exactly my point, neither side should rush to make connections, but it seems ESPECIALLY insensitive for the right wing to try to pin it on the left, when it was a democrat who was targeted (and the people around her killed).

  • tdoggy

    “Mein Kampf” and “Among the Living” both ultra conservative books.

    Lets not forget he is for “Federalist Law” which is conservative/libertarian thinking.

    Now the FBI found a link to American Renaissance (White Supremacist Group) that supports the tea party.

    Poor right wingers, truth is starting to sting

  • tdoggy

    Jim Hoft nice hack job on the title to this. funny how you didnt put Favorite Book Gulliver’s Travels.

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  • deborah conner

    whatever his motivation, he was allowed to buy a gun and carry it into a crowd. I don’t want to be around people who carry guns unless they are professional bona fide police, but my rights are ignored. what happened to the “well regulated” part of the 2nd amendment?

  • deborah conner

    These books are readings from your average high school or freshman reading list, glimpses of history and society painted large. Mein Kampf is the ultra right of the ultra right. Listing it and the Manifesto as favorites mark someone who wants to draw attention, be “important.” The theme of hatred of government is attractive to those who can’t find a way to contribute socially or belong. Not someone looking for solutions.

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  • randall stafford

    most of the individuals posting anything on this blog are mostly godless left wing nut jobs who think keith olberdouche is the greatest! general electric is owned by the government and general electric owns the network nbc , bet most of you stupid people didn’t know that. that is why they are the mouth piece for our celebrity in chief.

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  • Dean

    At least the last person who left a post understands the difference between a left wing lunatic and a right wing fanatic. For those of you who are confused, the average atheist/agnostic leans toward the left. You will not find any God fearing Bible thumping folks kneeling before their skull shrines in the back yard. Moreover, do you really think Adolph Hitler was a God fearing Christian or Jew? This cockroach of a human doesn’t have the intellect to comprehend any of the political rhetoric that the average statist would have you believe is the root of all of societies woes. This punks delusional attack on society is no different than any other Columbine type attack. Save the political discussion for the Timothy McVeigh’s of the world. We have not seen the last of his kind.

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