Confirmed: George Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Trayvon Shooting

Autopsy results after the shooting revealed that Trayvon Martin had only two injuries on his body – a fatal gunshot wound and bloody knuckles.
Via The FOX Report:

On the other hand, George Zimmerman did have injuries, including a fractured nose, two black eyes and cuts on the back of his head.

Then there’s this…
George Zimmerman passed a lie detector test the day after the Trayvon Martin shooting. During the questioning Zimmerman told police that he was attacked by Trayvon Martin.
The Smoking Gun reported, via FOX Nation:

A day after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman passed a police lie detector test when asked if he confronted the teenager and whether he feared for his life “when you shot the guy,” according to documents released today by Florida prosecutors.

According to a “confidential report” prepared by the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman, 28, willingly submitted to a computer voice stress analyzer (CVSA) “truth verification” on February 27. Investigators concluded that he “has told substantially the complete truth in regards to this examination.”

Zimmerman, the report noted, “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).”

Along with questions about whether his first name was George and if it was Monday, Zimmerman was asked, “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was also asked, “Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy.” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.”

Now, why was this guy arrested again?

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  • Gary

    I heard this right after it happened.
    Not sure why its surfacing as news again.

  • Remco Kimber

    Now, why was this guy arrested again?

    Because the Sanford police are cowards and are bending to the will of the mob, the liberal mob.

    Remember, truth is a hate crime, and telling the truth may even be a worse crime,

  • Rachelle


  • squeaky

    tell that to the folks at strata-sphere. they’ve been running threads shredding Zimmerman. i
    haven’t been following the case or the strata-sphere blog [in eons]

  • Barry S

    Because the guy looked like Dear Leader’s son, if he had one, per Dear Leader.

  • olm

    He was arrested because of race. This looked like a winner for the race baiting left.
    And to some degree it was. There are still hoodie protests and Trayvon crap out here in the west.
    Too bad for the haters that Zimmerman was not squeaky white and a Democrat to boot.

  • BuddyG

    Why was he arrested?

    So leftists could indulge their evil white guy vs noble minority victim narrative.

    Similar episodes include the Tawana Brawley hoax and the Duke lacrosse rape hoax.

  • JenBee

    It’s unconscionable that the media would have access to this information, yet choose to keep it from the public while stoking race-baiting flames of discontent.

  • Dittogirl

    All to cause a race war, to pit Americans against Americans, to create a reason for Martial Law to control the people, suspend the elections, and insert the dictator into office for as long as he could hold on to it.

    Failed miserably, and having an American in prison is nothing to them as long as it acheives their goal, which it is not. Lots of people are going to pay for this travesty of justice.

  • Militant conservative

    Olm, Zimmerman is a democrat.

    He’ll not get convicted. But

    He’s a hunted man by the

    Ignorant tribal black mob.

    Powder is dry

  • Catblaster

    @ Remco, he was not arrest by SPD…he was charged per a flawed affidavit submitted by a pandering special prosecutor. This case needs to be dismissed immediately and ethics complaints filed against Angela Corey.

  • Finncrisp

    Open season on White Hispanics. George is really in the soup on this incident. When he is acquitted, I hope that messrs. Jackson and Sharpton have the common sense to accept the ruling of the court.

  • Pingback: Confirmed: George Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Trayvon Shooting|PolitifreakPolitifreak()

  • sandy

    The Sanford Chief of Police was also fired for not handling the case properly. Sounds like the Chief did everything by the book but that didn’t satisfy the powers that be. Therefore, he had to go. The story was written before the incident took place.

  • Gary

    Catblaster 11

    I mostly agree, but I’m not ready to Nifong this prosecutor just yet. Two theories out when it first happened were that 1) she was under immense pressure from above to arrest the guy and 2) she may have filed a charge that she knew would be thrown out.

    Supporting my thinking is the fact that, unlike Nifong, she hasn’t been showboating for the media about putting Zimmerman away. In fact, she’s been nearly invisible since the original arrest.

  • Pingback: Confirmed: George Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Trayvon Shooting | Born Conservative()

  • radioone

    If NBC could edit this lie detector test, they could forgo the trial and take him straight to the electric chair.

  • Gary

    On another note,
    Murder up 38% in Chicago this year:

    Not one of these murders has so much as a single afternoon blurb.

    Now why not?

  • Patty

    George Zimmerman’s trial is still a work in progress. However, evidence is continuing to mount that the arrest and charge of Mr. Zimmerman may have been the wrong call, after all. In the most recent piece of evidence, the Smoking Gun reports that Zimmerman passed a lie detector test about his behavior the night of the shooting:

    According to a “confidential report” prepared by the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman willingly submitted to a computer voice stress analyzer (CVSA) “truth verification” on February 27. Investigators concluded that he “has told substantially the complete truth in regards to this examination.”

    Zimmerman, the report noted, “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).”

    Along with questions about whether his first name was George and if it was Monday, Zimmerman was asked, “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was also asked, “Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy.” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.”

    Here’s a page of the report itself, straight from the Sanford Police Department:

    Now, it should be noted that lie detector tests can be fooled, so much so that entire guides exist on the internet for how to do so. However, given the path the case has been taking over the past few weeks, and also given that Sanford police interrogators are probably better at administering these tests than average, we suspect that at least some validity has to be applied to these results.

  • Hoser

    “Now, why was this guy arrested again?”

    To answer this on his second arrest, it was because he was an idiot.He and his wife lied to the judge and in fact have telephone recordings where it sounded like they conspired to pocket some of the online donations he received while at the same time telling the judge a different story on their finances.

    Seems to me that Zimmerman somehow does not see that the state wants him in jail even though the shooting was entirely justified.The guy doesn’t seem to be running on all cylinders.
    The state seems to be trying to pull off a reverse OJ/Anthony, instead of guilty people going free they want to lock up an innocent person and Zimmerman seems to be supplying them ammo.

  • Ragspierre

    The technology is not considered reliable by any court in the land, that I know of.

    They are no better than a coin-toss. Worthless.

  • Abe

    If this was a white 17 year old there would be not a word from Jackson and Sharpton, they wouldn’t give a rats ass…that is racist.

    And until this incident I’ve never heard the term white Hispanic. And if there is such thing then aren’t there also white Islamic, white Indian, and white African American citizens as well?

    Why can’t we all be “American”? Alot of citizens are of German and England decent but we’re not referred to as European Americans, it’s exact same thing.

  • retire05

    And now, throw this into the mix: Matt Guttman, reporter for ABC, admitted on his twitter account that SPD lead detective, Chris Serino, was actually Guttman’s “leaker” for information not yet released by the SPD in an ongoing investigation. ABC made the decision just hours after Guttman’s admission to ship Guttman off to their Tel Aviv office.

    Serino, according to the SPD, (and take this with a grain of salt) has requested to be relieved of his duties as a detective and is now being reduced to being a beat cop, in a patrol car most likely, working the grave yard shift. Seasoned lead detectives do not request duty that is usually done by low seniority cops. And where is the statement by the SPD that the illegal leaking of not yet released information is a violation of Florida statutues and is being investigated by IA? The SPD announced that it was Serino’s decision (to reduce himself to a low seniority status) and Serino will maintain rank and pay grade. (double face palm)

    If Serino was running his mouth to Matt Guttman, who else was he running his mouth to? Benjamine Crump? The guy who owns Julison PR that was making the rounds and admitted on his own website that he had spent the day with (tah-dah) Matt Guttman, and who is working for Benjamine Crump? Was Serino the source for Benjamin Crumps almost immediate statement about Skittles and “iced tea” when the drink was actually Arizona watermelon drink? And why has Serino, who clearly violated Florida law, not suspended pending the results of an IA investigation? Is it because his actions will have lasting damage to Angela Corey’s witch hunt?

  • Abe

    I agree that Zimmerman is giving them ammo. dummy. There looking for anything they can to make (a made up) example out of him, the white (hispanic) guy

  • George

    He was arrested because “white hispanic” people are not allowed to defend themselves against
    black teenage thugs. If Zimmerman did not have the gun, he would be dead. Tryvon would just be another black teenage thug arrested and sent to prison for murder, and the story would have been nothing more than a footnote in the local news media.

  • retire05

    #21, Rags, while you are correct that the voice stress test is not admissable evidence during a trial, the fact that the lead investigator, Chris Serino, was leaking priviledged information in an ongoing police investigation is. Anything that Serino might testify to now has been tainted and will be questionable. He will be discredited by the defense.

  • Patty

    Passed it Twice. Seems that is not good enough in a nation with some many differing opinions. Seems the law Stand Your Ground may only apply when others do it.

    Separating in a way Them and Us. This is a Witch Hunt.

    The Harvard professor said the prosecutor made “a deliberate, willful, unethical, unprofessional, and illegal decision to withhold that evidence…from the courts and from the affidavit that she filed in support of an overblown second-degree murder prosecution.”


    And now, the prosecutor in case is suing Professor.

  • Patty

    Dershowitz Doubles Down on Trayvon Martin Case

    Dershowitz said that the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, “was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.” As I argued in an earlier AIM Report, the media and certain politicians have played leading roles in fanning the flames, and this story has a long way to go.

  • Multitude

    I get so frustrated when good people get all worked up about how wrong something is, believing that realization, if just recognized by the left, would illuminate the utter hypocrisy. You know, the constant shock that the news media is unjust and biased, the shock that the prosecutor here ignored the facts, etc. It’s as annoying as the left’s own perpetual inane shock when economic news comes out and they regard it as “unprecedented! *gasp*” for the 66th week in a row.

    People, the left does not THINK like you do. That’s why you are unable to reason with them, convince them if they just looked at the facts, they’d come to the same conclusion. They do not think structurally. For instance, many in the tea party show awareness of the concept of limited government, which comes directly out of social contract theory. From Hobbes to Rousseau and Locke, we understand that in the state of nature, man is lawless and vicious. In order to live together without stealing each others stuff and clubbing each other to death, we enact a logical construct into social spaces via a “social contract.” This contract is constructed such that it only has the rights it is expressly, explicitly authorized. All other rights remain with the people.

    This closed-system approach (government only can do what it is authorized via contract) seems second nature to tea party conservatives. Progressives out of an entirely different model (and subsequently represent a radical takeover by an extremely virulent form over the Democratic party, as traditional liberalism is also contract-based). It is open-ended. Law is a matter of active intervention; law is made at the level of singularity, not a universal. Law has no limits; government does what is needed. There is no consent required of the people; the government is the people and its enlightened ones chosen to rule as sovereign are the deciders, those who tell the sheep what is necessary.

    Progressivism in name is a farce; it is a return to reactionary feudalism. Rule by power over the serfs. It was developed through the elites stealing the symbolism of Marxism in order to feign a promise to the people in order to avoid further French Revolutions, but was actually a ruse. In exchange for promising presents (free health insurance, minimum wages, early retirement, etc.) that were nothing more than a Ponzi scheme of funds stolen from one peasant and given in fraction to another, it was a method to ensure each gift would snare the peasantry. Progressivism is the dark mask of contemporary feudal control.

    There is no equivalence with these people. Being shocked that they do not recognize social contract theory, limited government, rationality, etc. is a waste of time. They recognize only two things: power and control. It’s understood this prosecutor was compelled to produce a case against Zimmerman because the Progressive State needs a target of hate to stir up the plantation slaves and redirect their anger at high unemployment and all toward a manufactured enemy. If she succeeds, she’ll be promoted (SCOTUS nomination? Future assistant Attorney General?). If she fails, she’s thrown under the bus and into the pit with the other spent souls.

  • political_proxy

    Yes, never let a crisis go to waste, we know.

    Lacking a crisis the next best thing is to generate one.

  • squeaky

    my knowledge of drugs is just so out dated. i’m sure i have plenty of company……..the conservative treehouse had a post up during the downtime and a street drug called lean.

  • Abe

    Hi Patty, sounds like it would take some time ie: internet research and practice to beat one of these lie detectors…Wasn’t Zimmerman given the lie test the same night?

  • donh

    and George Zimmerman’s father will now be arrested for driving 36 mph in a 35mph zone in ….5,4,3,2,….

  • Joanne

    Okay, Zimmerman who looks Mexican, but the media cried from the rooftops that he is ‘white’, shot a black teenager. How dare a Mexican looking man who the media determines is white shoot a black man – that’s what other black men are for. It fits the media’s agenda, the black movement agenda, the democrat agenda, and Obama’s agenda. I’m afraid it is a black world in America today.

  • Joanne

    #29 – so true. As the Russian defector KGB Agent said, paraphrasing, that until the boot is actually on these people’s rears, they won’t be able to acknowledge or face the facts. There is no middle class in socialism – there is only the poor and those who hold power and control of the poor, and they are the rich.

    Socialism is a mental illness. There are people who believe they are above, smarter, better, and deserving of having the power and control over those THEY deem pee-ons.


    George also said that when he shot Trayvon Martin, Trayvon sat up and said “You got me”.
    But, we know from the autopsy report that Mr. Martin was shot in the heart and died
    instantly! I am sure they did not ask him how a dead man can speak in the test. Mr.
    Zimmerman also indicated that his gun was in the back of his pants. If he was on his back
    with Martin on top of him how did he pull his gun. The truth is that it was Trayvon who was
    fighting for his life when Zimmerman pushed that gun into his chest and pulled the trigger.
    You can hear Trayvon screaming in terror on one of the 911 tapes right before the “pop” of
    the gunshot.

  • Ragspierre

    #26 retire05—DUDE! Focus! The point is NOT about admissible evidence or anything else. It about this test being FLUCKING WORTHLESS. In reality. Not just in court.

    # 28 Patty—Dershowitz is full of crap OR O’Mara and the entire Florida criminal defense bar are incompetent.

    O’Mara could file a writ of mandamus to MANDATE that the trial court conform with the law. Nobody is doing that. Ergo, the law is not offended by Corey’s charging instrument.

    Look up the Florida Code Of Criminal Procedure for the contents of a conforming charging instrument.

  • Patty

    New Forensic Evidence Is Consistent With George Zimmerman’s Self Defense Claim

    If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

    first for me, huffpo site.

  • Patty

    Again, past lie detector test NOT ONCE BUT TWICE.

  • Ragspierre

    #36 “But, we know from the autopsy report that Mr. Martin was shot in the heart and died

    No. We know no such thing. It is a stupid myth that someone shot in the heart “dies instantly”.

    You can destroy someone’s heart and lungs, and still have them kill you. Look it up. LOTS of variables go into how a living thing reacts to a fatal shot.

  • Ragspierre

    #39 Patty First, actual “lie detector technicians” HATE the Voice Stress Test, and give it NO credence.

    Second, even the manufacturer has had to admit in court documents it does not work to detect lies.

    Third, you could administer a worthless test a 100 times, and it would NEVER be valid.

  • retire05

    #37, Rags, FOCUS. I’m not claiming that the voice stress test will hold any sway during trial. It will not even be admissable unless the prosecution tries to bring it up. At that point, Lester should instruct the prosecution that voice stress tests are not admissable under Florida law.

    What I AM pointing out is the scandal behind lead detective, Chris Serino, which is not gaining as much notice today as the voice stress test. Serino not only violated Florida statute by leaking information from an ongoing investigation, but there is the possibility that he tained any possible jury pool from Sanford due to his multiple media interviews. THAT, is the big news, and one that I am sure you really would like to ignore.

  • Ragspierre

    “THAT, is the big news, and one that I am sure you really would like to ignore.”

    Well, that is a lie, and you are a liar. I don’t “like” ignoring anything, and I don’t.

  • Tim in Cali

    Yahoo/ABC/Pravda.. has been running an anti Zimmerman story about how he bullied a co worker…now I know why–abc-news-topstories.html

    Nice try Yahoo,go cash that George Soros check

  • Ragsdale

    Oh my…I have such a bad case of AAFS (African American Fatigue Syndrome).

  • AuntieMadder

    “Mr. Zimmerman also indicated that his gun was in the back of his pants. If he was on his back with Martin on top of him how did he pull his gun. The truth is that it was Trayvon who was fighting for his life when Zimmerman pushed that gun into his chest and pulled the trigger.”

    Hey, if the account of the eyewitness who said Martin was on top of Zimmerman and that Zimmerman was crying out for help doesn’t work for you, then, by all means, blow off the parts you don’t like and twist the parts you find useful to suit you.

  • Patty

    #41 June 27, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    Ragspierre commented:

    #39 Patty First, actual “lie detector technicians” HATE the Voice Stress Test, and give it NO credence.

    Second, even the manufacturer has had to admit in court documents it does not work to detect lies.

    Third, you could administer a worthless test a 100 times, and it would NEVER be valid.


    The lie detector test was requested by Chris Serino, a homicide investigator with the Sanford Police Department.

    Sorry, your theory is debunked.

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Godspeed & God Bless the Zimmermans & Martins

    OT.. ht Patty

    June 27, 2012

    San Francisco gay rights icon, arrested on child porn charges


  • Gary

    Hoser, Abe

    Don’t forget Zimmerman is a Democrat.

    Ragspierre, are you one and the same from

  • Ragspierre

    “Sorry, your theory is debunked.”

    What “theory”?

    I related facts. You can verify everything I stated. Or you can show I’m wrong.

    I didn’t state a theory.

    Cops LIKE the Voice Stress Test for a number of reasons…

    1. they pressure people to confess (regardless of their worthlessness as a lie detector)

    2. they are very easy to train to use, so LEOs can use them without a technician

    3. LEOs can recite they administered a (totally bogus) “lie test”

  • Patty

    First, Lead Detective Chris Serino – From the outset Detective Serino has held somewhat of a valid chip on his shoulder toward George Zimmerman. Somewhat valid. Did he cross the line? Yes. Was it out of some grand design to see George Zimmerman incarcerated for Second Degree murder? No, not likely.

    Serino was non sympathetic toward Zimmerman’s position for a variety of reasons. Zimmerman had thrown his department and some of his pals under the bus regarding the Sherman Ware case against Justin Collison. Maybe he even thought of Zimmerman as a rogue do-gooder blended with somewhat of a grandiose vigilante complex.

    So from the start he just didn’t care for him. Besides, from his perspective, if Zimmerman had just sat his butt in his car and waited for the police to arrive none of this would have happened. Especially not all the grief brought upon his department once again by the same loud mouth that created the prior problems with the former Police Chief. So Zimmerman, from Serino’s perspective was getting a dose of Karma.[…]

    So when all of the racist accusations were being bantered around, and all the media people were speculating wildly about the recording, Chris Serino could have put it to rest. He certainly could have put a stop to it during the March 16th interview with Chief Lee and the Orlando Sentinel. He didn’t.

    He didn’t for the same reason that Ryan Julison didn’t, it made Zimmerman appear worse and brought a measure of public moral outrage upon him. Serino felt such outrage was deserved, and while not guilty of a crime, perhaps such public admonishment would be punishment for being a first class jackass.

    It was that same motivation that led to Chris Serino leaking to the media many details surrounding the case including the infamous Zimmerman video arriving at the police station, and other leaked information about witness testimony.

  • how dumbed down are we bg
  • Patty

    The lie detector test was requested by Chris Serino, a homicide investigator with the Sanford Police Department.

    Serino was the detective who could have ended this whole thing but had a big chip on his shoulder.

    Serino requested test.

    CNN Walks It Back: Oops, Zimmerman Didn’t Say ‘Coon,’ He Said It Was ‘Cold’!

    Read more:

    Apparently, the cop on the investigation was looking for blood and leak to the media and the Civil Rights Groups started.

    Chief Lee – This poor guy was stuck between a rock and a million hoodie wearing hard places. His department was under attack from every angle, including from within. His bosses and the bosses bosses were out for blood, and the streets were filled with skittle clad trademarked T-Shirts. Chief Lee was carrying a lit powder keg, looking for a safe way to defuse it while at any given moment it could blow up in his face.

    After the case is tried there are going to be lawsuits or legal actions against some within the Police Department, especially, when Zimmerman is found not guilty. The Riots may begin but the truth is out there, chip on Serino’s shoulder or not.

  • Patty

    #52 June 27, 2012 at 1:17 pm
    how dumbed down are we bg commented:

    You cannot imagine what I won’t to say here. And it is not profanity. Just won’t comprise my personal opinions on a blog.

    I believe that Zimmerman was no doubt in the wrong place at the right time. Questions are did Zimmerman say anything to Trayvon who he was. By that, a neighbor watchmen.

    Would that mean anything, in my mind, not really. But would Trayvon stop and turn around.

  • Patty

    I believe the guilt lies squarely on Serino. He was the leak and then it lit up a Powder Keg.

  • Patty

    #50 June 27, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Ragspierre commented:

    Okay, Zimmerman past the stress test, not once but twice. And it was ordered by Serino.
    A cop or investigator if you will.

  • retire05

    #49, Gary, I would assume it is the one and the same Rags. The same one that seems to spend his day posting on blogs like Legal Insurrection, RiehlWorldView and a number of others, although he has made the claim that he is a lawyer from Texas. His m.o. is to insult, and name call, anyone who doesn’t march lock step with his opinions.

    Perhaps that one client doesn’t keep him all that busy.

  • “why was the guy arrested” because a white prosecutor was willing to sacrifice a white male to get the black vote.

  • Ragspierre

    Some here are confused about what I’ve been pointing out.

    I am not saying ANYTHING respecting Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence.

    What I am saying is that the blogs crowing about Zimmerman passing a “lie test” are wrong.

    The test given proves NOTHING…at ALL…about ANYTHING. It CANNOT. It does not work.

  • Patty


    Horrible, Awful News for Romney

    The pundits may as well declare this election over: Nearly two-thirds of Americans think Barack Obama would do better at handling an alien invasion than Mitt Romney, according to a poll commissioned by National Geographic.

    Say what?

  • Carlos

    #29-Multitude: Nicely done.

  • Patty

    #59 June 27, 2012 at 1:27 pm
    Ragspierre commented:


    First the title here is: George Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Trayvon Shooting, I digress:

    A voice stress test is like a polygraph, but instead of measuring heart rate and blood pressure, it looks for changes in an individual’s voice patterns that are thought to suggest psychological stress. With the help of software, investigators record a suspect answering baseline questions and then compare them to answers about the case.

    This technology is not unique to Sanford. The National Institute for Truth Verification, a manufacturer of the technology, claims that over 1,800 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies use their product. They also claim to have trained U.S. Military personnel.

    George Zimmerman’s voice stress test came out clean, according to attorney Hal Uhrig. If the Sanford Police Department is willing to spend more than $10,000 on the product, then it probably trusts its results. And those results probably corroborated what officers initially saw at the scene.

    This may not be admissible in the trial but it will be mentioned whether overruled by O’Mara. A lot of money spent and Police use this as a great tool.

  • Patty

    #32 June 27, 2012 at 11:40 am
    Abe commented:

    Hi Patty, sounds like it would take some time ie: internet research and practice to beat one of these lie detectors…Wasn’t Zimmerman given the lie test the same night?

    Sorry, Abe, you are probably long gone but Yes, they did.

  • Ragspierre

    The company’s Web site is replete with testimonials and success stories. One Alabama police department is said to have solved a murder case 14 years cold by re-interviewing the main suspect with the CVSA. The suspect had previously taken four polygraphs given by three different examiners, all inconclusive. Confronted with three failed voice stress tests, he broke down and confessed.

    Researchers counter that nothing in 30 years of studies proves that voice stress analysis works, either generally or in the specific case of the CVSA.

    “Voice stress analysis is a fraud. It has zero validity,” said David T. Lykken, a psychology professor emeritus at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and author of the book “A Tremor in the Blood: Uses and Abuses of the Lie Detector.”

    A 1996 Department of Defense Polygraph Institute study of the CVSA found that the device performs no better than chance in detecting deception. In other words, guessing or flipping a coin would be as accurate as the test. Based on this study, the Department of Defense, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation do not use voice stress tests.


    Polygraphs already use at least three different measures of stress. “If voice worked, we could just add that measure into the mix,” said Frank Horvath, past president of the American Polygraph Association and a professor in the School of Criminal Justice at Michigan State University, who has researched voice stress analysis for three decades.

    Instead, “detectives are using (voice stress tests) in policing as a ploy to get people to confess,” Horvath said.

    Lykken agreed, pointing out that police for years have coaxed confessions from suspects with fake lie detectors, even pressing photocopying machines and police radios into service in the ploy. The CVSA is just one more ruse, he said.


    NITV says the CVSA works by detecting and charting an inaudible “microtremor” in the voice. Truthful statements produce a peaked pattern,while stress, or lies, produce a flattened top. A 1981 study published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, however, could not detect voice microtremors, much less correlate them with stress or lying.

    “What people are looking for is an easy solution,” said Darren Haddad, an electronics engineer who studies voice stress analysis for the Air Force Research Lab Information Directorate in Rome, N.Y., which researches and acquires technology for the Air Force.

    Haddad, in a 2000 study, found that two commercial analyzers were accurate in detecting stress, but couldn’t differentiate between stress caused by anger, fear, lying or just needing a bathroom break.

    According to the lab, NITV declined to join that test, which was conducted with the National Institute of Justice, the research and development branch of the U.S. Department of Justice. NITV also blocked the lab’s efforts to obtain the CVSA through a local police department, Haddad said.

    Like I said. The “test” is worthless. It proves NOTHING.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #64 Rags

    I’ve read your comments at other sites. Like me, you don’t use any other nic, no matter where you comment — that is commendable. Welcome to GP.

    I seldom agree with your comments, no matter where I find them, but I do enjoy the rebuttals to them from the others.

    Keep civil, and you will be welcome here by most who enjoy a good debate. You usually lose these debates handily, IMHO, mind you, but at least you provide excellent fuel, which is more than can be said for most contrarians who comment here.

    Folks, GPers — debate is good. These threads get 30 comments total when there is no disagreement. Good debates get these threads up to 300 or more comments.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    For example, Rags: so far I’ve not seen you use the words “Rethuglican”, “Reich-wing”, “Faux News”, “Repug”, “hillbilly”, “redneck”, or “mouth-breather”.

    That kind of restraint is admirable, and very rarely seen among those who usually disagree with the majority (and Jim Hoft) at this blog.

  • Ragspierre

    #66 & 67

    If, as did a poster here, someone lies about me, I will call them a liar. That is not name-calling, in my book.

    I am MORE conservative than are many here. If you really have read my posts, you should know that. But, like all my statements, you do not need to take my word. Investigate yourself.

    I am not a herd thinker. I will often take a contrary position, but not just to stir the pot.

    Here, for instance, I think it is downright dangerous to accept on face value an assertion like “Zimmerman passes lie detector test” without looking under the hood.

    GroupThink is a danger to any group, including conservatives.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Rags re: all that

    I know: that’s why I commended you.


  • Taqiyyotomist

    And also why I admonish my peeps at GP that not all contrarians are necessarily “trolls”.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Again: when nobody is in disagreement here, the threads are either dead, or boring.

  • Ragspierre

    We cooo….

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Ragspierre, I’ve been reading your comments at MANY sites for quite a few years now.

    Don’t know where I first encountered your nic, but it was probably at Michelle Malkin’s site, which I used to read frequently, and now do so every so often. You’re often, if not most times, the contrarian in the discussion, but, as I’ve said, you never resort to stereotypical insult, broad-brushing, and deflection in your arguments.

    I suppose I was insinuating “moonbat” in my #66 (rethug, all that), but no. Moonbats use those words in their trolling. Contrarians and honest debaters don’t.

  • Ragspierre

    As far as I know, I coined “Deemocrat”, “Pres. Dog Breath”, “Pres. Composite”, etc.

    I LOVE word-play, and I’m an unabashed Conservative. When I use “Collectivist” I am using the Nockian term, which brings in all BIG GOVERNMENT systems (fascism, socialism, communism, progressivism, etc.). They are all inbred cousins.

  • Cactus

    @Ragspierre: all drama aside, I love the name. Very clever.

  • Ragspierre

    Thanks! I really, REALLY fits.

  • rangerrebew

    Why was he “arrested” again? Because this a political witch hunt, not a criminal investigation. Florida and the Sanford didn’t want J$ss$ J$cks$n, the black panthers, and $l Sh$rpt$n raising hell. Zimmerman will be found guilty because the judge who will handle the trial will make sure Zimmerman doesn’t have a chance. A not guilty verdict would probably touch of a riot(s) and politicians don’t want that to happen, even at the expense of criminal activity on their part and the innocence of Zimmerman. Better one man be sacrificed than take a chance on riots, correct you politicians?

  • Manoftruth

    Don’t put too much weight on this lie detector test folks, Zimmerman has already perjured himself 2 times on this case, and their are mulitple inconsistencies in his original story and what he is telling today. This is not one of those things controlled by the Obama administration. This is a case where a man killed an un-armed teen and has lied about it and thus is not worthy of our benefit of the doubt.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    #73 Rags

    When I use “Collectivist” I am using the Nockian term, which brings in all BIG GOVERNMENT systems (fascism, socialism, communism, progressivism, etc.). They are all inbred cousins.

    Amazing. Someone who thinks as I do on these terms. The “educated”, those with these things they call “degrees”, tend to say those are all quite different, and any time you mention any single atrocity committed by any single one of these supposedly disparate philosophies, they invariably tell you that you have the definition wrong: “That’s not real Communism. That’s not real socialism. Communism and fascism are opposites!”

    They are all facets of the same s&&t gem.

  • Pingback: Confirmed: George Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Trayvon Shooting | Liberal Whoppers()

  • AC

    And where is the statement by the SPD that the illegal leaking of not yet released information is a violation of Florida statutues and is being investigated by IA?

    Retire05, you’ve just accused Serino of violating Florida legal statutes.

    Please cite the specific section(s) of the law you allege he violated.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    And isn’t it interesting, to say the least, that these tactics are part and parcel of Islamic Taqiyya?

    “You have the definition wrong! You lose!”

    These tactics come from their (Islam, Progressive) father. Who is Satan.

  • squeaky
  • Ragspierre

    @81 One of my all-time favorite Collectivist quotes was by BIG COMMIE Ed Ansner.

    Smiling in his best fashion when asked if he was a Communist…”What’s a Communist?” (I mean…really, how COULD you ask such a silly question.)

  • retire05

    #80, AC,

    Title X, Chapter 119 of the Florida State Statutes.

    Even Florida’s lax open records law does not apply to an ongoing police investigation. If that were the case, then every criminal in Florida could make a public request to get the documents from law enforcement agencies telling them what the police knew in an ongoing investigation.

    And yes, I am accusing Serino of leaking information from an ongoing police investigation as was admitted by Matt Guttman of ABC.

  • Blue Hen

    Manoftruth commented:
    This is a case where a man killed an un-armed teen and has lied about it and thus is not worthy of our benefit of the doubt.

    Actually, all people get the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that. This is also a case where seating a jury, staggering through a trial and not having rounds of appeals will be next to impossible since idiots of all degrees, yourself included, have adopted this mentality. You want to see this guy get convicted and not lynched? Tell the dear leader to call off the new and improved black panthers. Or the continued gag of calling him a “white hispanic”. Unless the MFM is willing to call the dear leader a white african american. Think that that will happen? or perhaps NBC doctoring the tape making it sound like Zmmerman was making a racial slur when in fact he was answering a direct question from the police dispatcher.

    This is why the lynch mob is fixating on jail house tapes and the Great Bail Conspiracy of 2012. The guy is the target of a bounty and you want to focus on what got said to the judge during the bail hearing? Is that because he killed sombody, or because you have a better chance of getting him, or his wife, or his parents, or some poor bastard whose address was broadcast by another useful idiot?

    If he’s guilty of 2nd degree murder, then you should be able to prove it. But what I’m hearing is bail funds and conversations with his wife.

  • Ragspierre


    Which sub-section are you saying applies?

  • AC


    Title X, Chapter 119

    Nothing more specific than that?

    You’re accusing Serino of a crime.

    Yet, you cannot cite the specific section of Florida law that you allege him to have violated?


    And yes, I am accusing Serino of leaking information from an ongoing police investigation as was admitted by Matt Guttman of ABC.

    So far, I haven’t seen you state what information you are accusing Serino of leaking.

    Please be very, very specific with the details of your accusation.

  • retire05

    #86, Rags, I thought you are a lawyer. Are you saying you can’t figure out which section applied to police officers?

  • On the subject of Zimmerman.

    1- He’s innocent. He killed in self defense as Trayvon sought him out to teach Zimmerman not to disrespect Martin. It happens all the time. This time the victim was armed. Good lesson.

    2. Zimmerman, as I have blogged extensively, is a political arrest. The first I’ve seen in my state since I can remember. Rick Scott owns this one. Corey is out of control. I’ve dealt with the SAO for a generation. They are not like her, she has an agenda and no sense of self control. Honestly, who in their right mind would call Harvard and complain about Dershowitz. Shows just how nuts and self important she is.

    3. Detectives have opinions and biases AND allegiances to other police officers. Serino is a bad guy here. He wanted to get Zimmerman from the outset, and when the facts didn’t line up he used race card by spinning up the media and “leaking” to the Martin family attorney. Why? Because Zimmerman dared challenge the police department’s handling of a beating given to a black homeless man by the son of one of the Lt’s in the department. Trust me, I’ve personally seen this type of “getting even” in my career. It happens. I don’t think Serino grasp the gravity of his petty act, but it doesn’t excuse him.

    4. To Gmauel- Getting shot through the heart is not instantly fatal. That is in the movies. As long as blood is in the brain, you are very much conscious and able to function. There was a shoot out years ago where the bad guy took a 9mm through his heart and managed to continue to shoot, and kill, an officer as he remained conscious over 15 seconds. Further, not all heart shots are fatal. Depends on the damage and location. The heart is a muscle that pumps blood, it doesn’t control the voice.

    5. I’ve seen both the polygraph and the CVSA used. Both work on people with a sense of guilt and conscience. I’ve seen them not work on sociopaths. We had a case where a man kidnapped and raped a little boy. He was a full blown nutjob. He passed the poly when ask if he killed the boy or if he didn’t kill the boy. His readings never budged. Why? Didn’t care. Don’t care, you don’t react.

    Zimmerman, by all accounts from his family to his friends to his associates is a man who cared.

    6. Can you get a gun out while on the ground being pummeled? Absolutely. I had a sheriff deputy friend of mine do exactly that, and that was from a secure holster while on his back being beaten by a crazy man. One round stopped that attack to.

    Zimmerman would be a free man if the NBC, race baiters and the coward in Tallahassee hadn’t done what they did. Martin was thuggin’ and got shot for it.

    Everything after that was politics, revenge and cowardice. Even the lying about the money for bond. Bond is NOT a way to keep people in jail, it is a way to make sure people show up for trial. That was Corey using her power to punish him because he made bond.

    Again, I’ve seen THAT in my career to. In the real world, if Zimmerman were white and the victim white, he’d could have been out for a lot less than what was given for bond in the first place or would have never faced charges.

    It shows just how badly Obama’s presence in the White House has encouraged a backward movement in race relations.

    Post racial my as*.

  • AC


    Rags is not the one accusing Serino of a crime. That would be you.

    Kindly cite the specific sections of the law that you allege Serino to have violated.

  • Ragspierre

    I am a lawyer. In Texas. A civil litigator. I do not do criminal law.

    I also am not saying anybody committed a crime.

    Step up. Or shut up.

  • retire05

    #90 AC, perhaps you can get Rags to explain the Florida statute to you, since he claims to be a Texas attorney (I really thought our crop of attorneys were better, but I guess not). Surely he can do that. It really is not all that hard. It’s in pretty clear English.

    Or you can read it yourself, that is if you are not just too lazy to do so.

  • retire05

    #91, Rags, so what are you saying? That a lawyer who practices litigation law, and not criminal law, is incapable of reading, and understanding, a state statute?

  • AC


    I am beginning to think that you’re being less than candid about what the statute supposedly says.

    Seems to me that if it were indeed so clearly cut and dried as you claim it to be you would be eager to quote it in order to support your accusations against Serino.

    Why so hesitant to stand and deliver all of a sudden?

  • Manoftruth

    Blue Helen I would hope that someone with something intelligent to say wouldn’t stoop to so much name calling. But be that as it may if you must name call, how about you call Out George Zimmerman. Vocal lie detector test or not, he has told some whoppers with this case. Lest we forget his original story changed.

    In his original story to the police he said that he was following Martin then Martin got out of sight so he returned to his car, where Martin confronted him and attacked him. Then when the obvious question came as to why the spot of the shooting is over 200 feet away from the car he changed his story. This shows deception, and a change in story for convience is a lie by any other name.

    He says on the police calls that he believed Martin to be a teen, but under oath says to the Martin family that he didn’t think that Martin was a minor but thought that he was just a couple years younger than himself (Zimmerman is 28). There is another lie

    He says that he his gun is in his back pocket and that Martin was on top of him and beating him up, yet he was able to reach in his back pocket (that he was laying on???) and pull out the gun and shoot him. There is another lie. He says that after shooting Martin, Martin declared “you got me” or quote something like that. (that is the stuff of fairy tales. Yet another lie.

    He tells the judge under oath that they have no money while sitting on approximately $200,000 in defence funds from people foolish enogh to give him money. Which makes yet another lie, 3 of which came under oath.

    You can put your eggs in that basket if you want(I would think you are smarter than that) thats your choice but with that much deception Zimmerman’s credibility is shot.

  • Ragspierre

    Title X Chapter 119 Public Records

    That chapter appears to be hundreds of pages long. Surely scores.

    I certainly CAN read and comprehend them. Why would I?

    I just understood you to say you knew your ass from a cypress stump WRT your reckless claims.

    My bad.

  • retire05

    Manoftruth, actually, it is you that has the story pretty well wrong. Zimmerman did say that he was following Martin but actually lost Martin (as substantiated by Dee Dee’s deposition). He never said he “returned” to his vehicle. He said he was “returning” to his vehicle. A major difference.

    Also, Zimmeram never discussed with Judge Lester his financial status. That was done by his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, who was questioned by both Mark O’Mara and Bernie de la Rionda. Zimmerman’s only statement on the day of the bond hearing, April 20th, was to tell the family of Martin he was sorry.

    If you are going to spin this case, at least try to make your spin somewhat factual.

  • retire05

    Rags, I’m not the one claiming to be an attorney. You are. I would think you would jump on the chance to show your moxie. Guess not.

  • mcc

    Manoftruth ought to watch the video of GZ answering questions put to him by a police officer the day following the shooting. He explained/reenacted how it happened.

    Even a lawyer from the CNN/MSNBC crowd said it’s very credible and strong for the defense.

    Manoftruth has claimed things I’ve never heard before – like Z saying the gun was in his back pocket. Instead from the video:

    GZ shows the spot on the sidewalk where his head was being rammed onto the cement and how he was trying to get his head at the very least repositioned onto the grass. In the process, he demonstrated how his shirt/jacket must have come up, revealing the gun – at his SIDE – and showed how his arm stopped Trayvon’s hand sliding/reaching to that side as Trayvon seemed to see the gun and stated, “You’re gonna die tonight.”

    He later pointed toward a door opening in an apartment behind him – someone calling to him – and his begging them to help him restrain Trayvon, not realizing he’d mortally wounded him at that point. Finally, he explained how he holstered his gun, put his hands in the air and told the arriving officer that he’d shot TM.

  • Ragspierre

    Yeah, retire. I ALWAYS hate it SOOOOoooooo bad when people who lie about me are disappointed when I won’t work for free to pull their chestnuts out of the fire.


    Really… Awful…

  • Zimmerman’s gun was in a holster. The holster was shown on the web along with the gun. He holstered his weapon when the police approached. He had CCW and was legal.

    Manoftruth needs to look at one of the many overhead maps, including the two on my site, where the travel/location of the people and the shooting are laid out. Zimmerman’s movements were east/west. Martin’s were south to north. Martin ran south towards his house then somehow managed to “confront” Zimmerman back at the north end of the complex. Zimmerman did not shoot Martin near his front porch as first reported. He was returning to his vehicle to meet the police officer. That was east/west travel. Martin ran, circled back around (after probably dumping his stash) and then jumped Zimmerman.

    What people don’t want to accept here is that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Martin could have walked up and asked what the problem was and explained himself like a NORMAL CITIZEN, but he wanted to thug up and did. It was his nature, his culture and I’ll bet money if forced the girlfriend would admit she knew what he was doing all along. I’ve heard these types of conversations before between teenagers puffing up. But once he’s dead and the Martin lawyers get involved she is claiming Martin is some kind of saint.

    No money in it otherwise.

    Zimmerman did what was asked of him by the police as a neighborhood watch member. I taught the citizens academy for my department I know what we asked of them.

    Why people want to make this anything else than what it is, even after all of the evidence support George is beyond me, but does explain why Obama still has 47% approval after all that he’s done.

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Patty #60 June 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    of course he would..

    keep telling you, they’re getting ready
    to test run our own UFO via area 51..

    oh, and btw, the inhabitants have already been
    programmed to ask US take them to Obama.. /s/


  • how dumbed down are we bg



    you have proffered zippo proof to back up you’re anti-GZ opinions
    vs nothing but proof proffered by the pro-GZ posters have to back
    up theirs..

    me thinks you just like to talk, else, business must be slow.. /s/

    oh and btw, this is spot on correct, and God knows
    we’ve disagreed more than your average posters..

    proof to back it up..


  • how dumbed down are we bg



    and bit more of much more here..


  • retire05

    #100, Rags……..

    I lied about you? How so? I said you “claim” to be an Texas attorney. How is that a lie since you do?

    I know you, Rags. You have the nasty habit of slinging accusations at people who disagree with you, touting your legal expertise. You even challenged Professor William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection who happens to be a law professor at Cornell. Anyone who wants can read what you say over at LI. It’s all there.

    And now you are saying that explaining a Florida statute would be giving your legal services for free? Odd you didn’t feel that way at LI when you quote Florida statutes with regularity.

    Since you think that offering an explaining for a statute is working for free, I suggest you refrain from poffering any “legal” opinion from now on. People here are ususally free market supporters and would not want you to work for free. Or maybe come up with a better excuse that is not so blatantly p!ss poor.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    :nods knowingly:

    :leans back:

    :munches popcorn:

  • Ragspierre

    #105 See. You are doing that lying thing again.

    “You even challenged Professor William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection who happens to be a law professor at Cornell.”

    I asked Prof. Bill a legal question: to wit…

    Ragspierre | June 24, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    90.801 Hearsay; definitions; exceptions.

    (1) The following definitions apply under this chapter:

    (a) A “statement” is:

    1. An oral or written assertion; or

    2. Nonverbal conduct of a person if it is intended by the person as an assertion.

    (b) A “declarant” is a person who makes a statement.

    (c) “Hearsay” is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

    (2) A statement is not hearsay if the declarant testifies at the trial or hearing and is subject to cross-examination concerning the statement and the statement is:

    (a) Inconsistent with the declarant’s testimony and was given under oath subject to the penalty of perjury at a trial, hearing, or other proceeding or in a deposition;

    (b) Consistent with the declarant’s testimony and is offered to rebut an express or implied charge against the declarant of improper influence, motive, or recent fabrication; or

    (c) One of identification of a person made after perceiving the person.


    90.802 Hearsay rule.
    Except as provided by statute, hearsay evidence is inadmissible.

    The Florida rule is more restrictive than is our Texas rule…

    90.803 Hearsay exceptions; availability of declarant immaterial.
    The provision of s. 90.802 to the contrary notwithstanding, the following are not inadmissible as evidence, even though the declarant is available as a witness:

    (1) SPONTANEOUS STATEMENT.–A spontaneous statement describing or explaining an event or condition made while the declarant was perceiving the event or condition, or immediately thereafter, except when such statement is made under circumstances that indicate its lack of trustworthiness.

    Of course, the cutting edge for case law being what “immediately thereafter” means in Florida jurisprudence.

    That’s the question I was asking the Prof.

    If the State does not choose to use the video, and Zimmerman does not testify, I see no means of O’Mara introducing it UNLESS there is case law that would permit it under the facts of the video’s production.

    You can take your advice about how I use my time, and cram it sideways. I like research, and I like learning things.

    I don’t care to do it at the behest of liars.

    Now, if you can back your reckless crap up, I’d be delighted to see it. There was a French Enlightenment philosopher whose name I don’t recall who said something like, “No man is a fool, in that I may learn from him”. The truth of that in your case remains unseen…but I am hopeful always.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    Interesting, isn’t it? that Crump is also not a criminal attorney, but a litigation ($$$$$) attorney.

    Who wants money. From the Twin Lakes Homeowners association. Lots of money.

  • Taqiyyotomist

    :starts another batch of popcorn:

  • Patty

    Look, Zimmerman make not be the most intelligent man but he has stuck to his story. There were two who witnessed the fight and they both say that, the one in the hoodie Witness Told Cops He Saw Trayvon Martin Straddling George Zimmerman And Punching Him “MMA Style”

    Now, this witness will be called to testify. The only thing that may hurt Zimmerman would be, did he stop his pursuit of Trayvon. I do believe he was looking for an address though to give the cops.

    Then, on something separate was the contributions to Zimmerman and lying about the money. I go back to my first sentence. Zimmerman is the sharpest.

    They have dissected everything Zimmerman has said in his life and everyone he has met and what he said to them. This is irrelevant in this case.


    Detective faulted George Zimmerman for not avoiding confrontation with Trayvon Martin, this maybe an issue but I really don’t think that was what Zimmerman did, looking for a confrontation, that is.

  • how dumbed down are we bg
  • Patty

    Anyone of us who sees something out of the ordinary will call the cops. Zimmerman did, and at that point, I seriously doubt that Zimmerman would just kill a guy, knowing cops were called. He was screaming for his life.

    And then when I heard this, I couldn’t be it. But someone said that the one with advantage in a fight would be Zimmerman. Look at Bruce Lee, small and not bulky.

    If you took Zimmerman and Trayvon and put them side by side, my bet in a fight would be on Trayvon.

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Taqiyyotomist #108 June 27, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    gee, i dunno.. /s/


  • Ragspierre

    #113 Can’t recall for sure, but either Glenn Reynolds or Neal Boortz said they would do exactly what momma Martin has done along those lines.

  • how dumbed down are we bg
  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Ragspierre #114 June 27, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    what your computer doesn’t have a search engine??


  • Patty
  • retire05

    #107, Rags, I thought you considered providing Florida statutes, and commenting on them, working for free. Obviously that is a new attitude on your part since you quote a Florida statute both at LI and now here. Or are you now going to deny that you have commented on Florida statutes over at LI?

    You see, Rags, everyone has your number. But obviously, as I told you before at LI, the clients seem to have lost it. You spend waaaaay too much time on blogs to be a really active attorney.

    Now, STUFF IT.

  • Patty

    Had George Zimmerman been intent on killing the young man, as many people have claimed, he could have taken his gun out and shot him several times from a safe distance. There is no evidence of that murderous intent. To the contrary, there is evidence that Zimmerman deeply regrets the shooting and is suffering from post-traumatic stress. He believes that his life has been ruined. Because of the massive number of threats on his life, including threats from the Black Panthers, he and some of his family members have been hiding and living in fear.

    {..}Think of that fact. An alleged assailant, a minority member who claimed he is innocent, has been hiding and living in fear of black mobs. In America. In the year 2012. Now, George Zimmerman has been charged by the special prosecutor, Angel Corey, with second degree murder and is in jail awaiting further proceedings.

    WHILE THE FACTS OF THE CASE have been reviewed time and time again in the media, here and around the world, I have just gone back and looked at a few key pieces of objective fact that seem to have been forgotten in the racial hysteria.{..}

  • Ragspierre

    Ah…I love the sound of feet beating for the tall grass in the evening, retire. Is that how you got that name?

    “Retiring” from the field in defeat?

  • Ragspierre

    “what your computer doesn’t have a search engine??”

    Obviously it does.


  • AC

    Hey Retire05… you hear that? That’s the sound of your credibility circling the drain.

    Seems that if you were being honest about what you claim Title X, Chapter 119 contains you would have produced evidence to support your claim by now. Of course, since you have failed to produce anything, it’s becoming more and more clear that you’re not telling the truth.

    Everyone’s watching you. Everyone sees what you’re doing.

    How is it that you put it? “Everyone has your number.”

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    re: #115 June 27, 2012 at 8:03 pm bg

    Howls on 911 Tapes Belong to Zimmerman, Not Martin

    more here & here & here & there’s still tons more, go fig..


  • how dumbed down are we bg
  • Ragspierre

    Oh, better…

    How do you think I knew how big that Chapter is?

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Ragspierre #121 June 27, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    obvious to all but you..

    lest, i’d expect, you’d (happily/ begrudgingly/ or
    else-wise) post proof to back your opinions up..


  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Ragspierre #125 June 27, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    uh, same way i (and millions of other people) did..


  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Ragspierre #125 June 27, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    oh yeah, almost forgot..

    this is not about you..

    but please, do carry on, and feel good about the fact that
    at the very least, you’re filling lots of empty spaces.. / s /


  • how dumbed down are we bg



    Second Degree Murder in Florida

    Angela Corey: No grand jury in Trayvon Martin case

    [the decision on whether to indict someone in
    capital cases must be made by a grand jury.]


  • Ragspierre

    [the decision on whether to indict someone in capital cases must be made by a grand jury.]

    That is obviously not true.

  • Patty

    The first responders of racism are ever present just waiting to bounce.

    This is really sad that those who are flipping out the race card get so much media attention before a man is tried in the court of law.

    This has dirty a fair trial in the Zimmerman case. Lies in the Media and all aboard the racism train. I hope if proven no guilty the Zimmerman’s will sue or write a book to get some form of restitution.

  • retire05

    #122 AC, I gave you the title and section number. If you are too lazy to use your search engine to find it, since it is on line, and too stupid to understand it, that is your problem, especially after the link to it has now been provided to you.

  • dallasdan

    Oh my, Al and Jesse got a s*** facial with this report. What will the race-baiting cartoon characters do now?

  • how dumbed down are we bg


    retire05 #132 June 27, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    this is something we’ve always disagreed on, when one states
    something as being a fact, they need to back it up or shut up..


  • how dumbed down are we bg


    Ragspierre #130 June 27, 2012 at 8:50 pm

    oh really??

    okay then..

    not only prove them wrong..

    but prove your right..

    i’ll wait..


  • how dumbed down are we bg


    re: #135 June 27, 2012 at 11:35 pm bg

    your = you’re


  • Ragspierre

    I was perhaps too abbreviated.

    Your logic is disjointed.

    Premise (false): second degree murder is a capital crime in Florida (it isn’t)

    Premise (true): capital crimes in Florida require a grand jury indictment

    Conclusion (false): the decision on whether to indict someone for second-degree murder must be made by a grand jury.

    Capital crimes are those which carry a capital punishment. The max. for 2nd degree murder in Florida is life.

  • Ragspierre

    “If you are too lazy to use your search engine to find it, since it is on line, and too stupid to understand it, that is your problem, especially after the link to it has now been provided to you.”

    His MO seems to be calling people names and generally get nasty…after being handed his ass.

  • Gary

    Taq 106

    You have a wicked sense of humor.

    Things are gonna get lively with Ragspierre around.

  • Ragspierre

    See? You are taking me for granted already.


  • Manoftruth

    Retire 05, if your comment was actually factual Zimmerman would not be sitting in a jail cell today. Zimmerman and his wife were both charged with providing False info in reguards to their financial situation as it relates to setting bail, which is why his original bail hearing was thrown out and he was re-arrested. The very fact that he and his wife were speaking in code on the jail lines about their money lets you know that he was well aware of his deception.

    Also all court proceedures and paper work included are done under oath and as such when Zimmerman confirmed that the info that he gave the court was true then tried to defraud the court while comspriring with his wife, lets us know again that this man is not trust worthy. In short Zimmerman is a Liar.

  • Manoftruth

    Ancher 52, first I have watched the video of Zimmerman explains the attack on the night of and found many of Zimmerman’s comments as contribed and not very believable hence why I say Zimmerman is a liar. This is pointed out in how Zimmerman’s story changes from its original version where he says he was attacked at the car to the statement once his father had trained him on what statemeant to give that he was attacked while returning to the car. That slight change of statemeant gives him a whole lot of leeway as to his location, and he and his father both knew that.

    Secondly when the truth is told you don’t have to have wiggle room statemeants for that which doesn’t make since. For instance in your statemeant you said “Zimmerman’s movements were east/west. Martin’s were south to north. Martin ran south towards his house then somehow managed to “confront” Zimmerman back at the north end of the complex.”

    That somehow denotes a break from reality, which is a clear sign of a lie. Just as Zimmerman claiming that he had to walk clear across the complex to get a address to give the police instead of just giving the police the address for the building where he was at. Or instead of giving his home address. It doesn’t make much since and you have to explain it away. A tatic that normally liberals use because they too are not great companions with the truth.

  • how dumbed down are we bg



    so, all you have is your opinion..

    gee, surprise surprise..

    i mean, i’m shocked..



  • how dumbed down are we bg



    at least you try a tad harder than Manoftruth
    not to come off looking the total fools ye be..


  • Ragspierre

    so, Dumbed Down, all you got is ad hominum…???

    Read your own links. They say exactly what I told you.

    And write a complete, evolved, and coherent sentence to help others try to answer you.

  • friendofstfrank

    Hope my comment went thru

  • friendofstfrank

    Well my comment based on neuroscience neurolinguistics, biology and photographic documentation didntvgo thru-odd how everytime i try to break thru to the real problem-it wont take them-most any site-i offer alternativr number 3. But i guess neither side wants that out-dangerous truth must be hidden-unfortunately in plain view-dont listen to words and interpret listen to every word by zimmerman and repeat it-look at the unaltered evidence and then that that was altered and look at crime scene photos and it will be clear if you realize what your looking at. Question-butyon button whose got the button. Question-when do you see martin obtain that red 7-11 lighter in the 7-11 video? Did he pay for it? What was everyone asking fir that could be found on the wall behind the cashier? He didnt get it to anyone-so? Why do the crime scene photos show a 1/2 smoked blunt? Did anyone send that off to be analyzed. Lets see martin loses the button in between the time george zimmerman spots him or he spots george zimmerman but he did not lose the watermelon juice, skittles, lighter or the 1/2 smoked blunt. Look at the picture of the interesting prescription bottle gz had in his upper pocket. . . Lets see-lean is made of watermellon juice + skittles +++++ and what to tm’s wandering eyes should appear in george zimmermans shirt pocket. A no-brain teen (frontal cortex isnt grown until age 25-literally-all folks who are teens are brainless because the frontal cortex isnt grown until your 25) and while you check out your neuroscience, neurolinguistics and photos/videos regarding this remember people go to extreme lengths to avoid the fact or deny the fact we are animals and respond as such-blame it on race, not biological factors. As the psychoterrorist researchers who cant reseach their way out of the bathroom and vote each year on mental illnesses they have discovered, the neuroscientists are laughing their assess off when they talk about psychologists-dont have a clue that we are animals and their crao doesnt work. All major scientists do-look at the reseach and studies. One more death because of man-made legal drugs-look at the liver toxology. And r. King, the convict (current) who viloted parole a week after out of the slammer by getting rip roaring drunk and weaving all over the road at night and leading the cops on a high speed chase because if they stopped him and his parole officer found out he violated parole, he would be back in prison. Finally stopped and the TWO BLACK MEN THAT WERE WITH HIM GOT OUT AND COOPERATEd but king drunk started kicking and fighting, then pulled out and beat. Why did not the racist cops beat up the other black men with king after all they had them out of the car first. But pissed off cops are color-blind and a high doeed chase by a drunk convict with an assult and battery conviction may have had more to do with the beating. King doesnt make a sound when hevwas being beaten-too drunk to feel it. But oh no it is race and everyone who cant see that is wrong-so 55 people die and king asks the BLACKS, horrified by this, why cant we just get along. He wasnt talking to or about the whites kids, he was talking about the murderers-and if you dont think that bothered him as much as the beating-you dont see the man under the adduction. So, the cause of it all-alciholism is ignored and no one helps King withdraw from the enemy that has caused all his problems. And so 56 are claimed as king gets so drunk he falls into his swimming pool and dies. And Trayvon Martin dies also in his search for a highly addictive but “legal” so you cant get in trouble high. 95%of violent crimes occur when folks are messed up. People dont kill as a rule but people on drugs do, the drugs cause the deaths. Sad, but no one wants to admit we are animals, oh no. How many others must die looking for a legal high? Young old white black. Look and see-listen and hear-1 little bottle in the pocket of a man on the way to a store who makes the mistake of stopping as he sees a teen with a sweater who has a huge white button in the middle of his hoodie-button button whose got the button? Take your gun if you want but leave anything that looks like cough syrup at home. Or for goodness sakes dont leave it in your pocket where a teen buying the ingredientd for a legal high can see it.

  • friendofstfrank

    Oh and the police screwed up the investigation intentionally by not taking zimmerman to the hospital and obtaining a contrast/non-contrast MRI that looking at his injuries, when and how they appear, would show a hairline fracture in the base of the skull and bleeding in and thru the brain-documentation of injuries. Now an EMSE ambulance and the fed guidelines require that once they are called YOU GO TO THE HOSPITAL-NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS. But a fire-department ambulance-usually answering to a police dept. Well lets pass on state/fed requirements. And lets see “help help ive been raped!” police-“must takr you to the hospitak fir a rape exam.” oh no, ill pass just bring charges without it.” “help, help, im being assulted” police-we must document your injuries by taking you to the hospital”oh no ill pass you dont realky need that for an investigatiin. But with zimmerman no and the first piece of recreated evidence is doctored to justify why they didnt do that crucial part of evudence gathering. Nah, serino, expert lead investigator, who didnt file a report UNTIL AFTER THE CHANGE.ORG PETITION WAS FILED-didnt do this crucial and NORMAL REQUIRED PART OF THE INVESTIGATION. Hmmmmmm. take you to the hospital to dicument your injuries

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