Obama in 2007: Don’t Stay in Iraq Over Genocide… Obama in 2011: We Must Protect Innocent Libyan Civilians
Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, March 21, 2011, 6:50 AM
Iraqi children wave to US troops.
In July 2007 Barack Obama made a stunning admission during a campaign stop. The democratic hopeful suggested that genocide of innocent civilians was a better option than continuing our military campaign in Iraq.
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn’t a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.
But, that was back when Bush was in charge.
Suddenly Obama has decided that innocent civilians need to be protected.
Obama, and the UN, approved US military intervention in Libya to aid defenseless civilians.
Libyans must be worth more to Obama than Iraqis.
Related… Hillary on ethnic cleansing and civil war, 2007: “We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves.”
ADVERTISEMENT
-
Featured Story:
YouTube Pulls Video of Trayvon Martin at Fight Club… But They Can’t Hide It Forever – Here It Is Again
Published May 22, 2012 at 5:04 am - 81 Comments
NC Cop commented:
Very simple: Before, Obama was very popular.
Now: Not so popular, people need a distraction.
Wagging the dog.
Bill Fabrizio commented:
Obama in 2012. “It was all Bush’s fault!”
a former democrat commented:
no… its either Bush’s fault or its Hillary’s fault.
or maybe Palin’s fault?
bg commented:
++
Obama, Still Derelict After All These Years
[Today, Geoffrey P. Hunt writes in American Thinker:
Obama is in full retreat. Disengaged and decoupled. A pathetic creature, soon to be deserving of mercy rather than scorn, if only his hubris were in lockstep full retreat. Is he guilty of desertion or mere dereliction? Desertion would be a harsh claim, but dereliction not so far fetched.
A president who voluntary withdraws — or at least sidesteps — from the duties of the office, is derelict, period. Even his own party faithful anxiously look for any sign of leadership coming from Obama, only to be turned away empty handed, yet again. Bereft of personal responsibility towards his fellow Americans, Obama has neither resigned nor renounced his citizenship. Yet through his apology tours has made us wonder whether renouncing his affinity for America and the leadership imperatives due the office would only be a public formality.
A president whose complete disregard for substantive political discourse in addressing the nation’s fiscal woes is derelict. Whether he is lazy, irresponsible or just overwhelmed, the signs point to a man bringing disrepute to the office for which self-imposed exile is his only way out. A president with enough time and energy to fill out a NCAA Final Four basketball tourney bracket but can’t find the time to attend to border security or assemble a meaningful budget incorporating the recommendations of his own deficit commission, is derelict.
A president who refuses to address the nation on the crisis in Libya and the humanitarian catastrophe in Japan, instead giving fourteen rogue Democrat state senators from Wisconsin directions to Morton’s Steak House in Chicago, is derelict.
Today’s state of affairs was clearly predictable years and years ago.]
much more @ link..
==
A_Nonny_Mouse commented:
“We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves.”
=================
Actually, we can’t save ANYTHING Islamic from the evil results that Islam produces. The cause leads ineluctably to the effect.
{That old “By its fruit shall you know the tree” thing…. }
Anti-Theist commented:
War on so many fronts / illegal immigration / privatized education and health care are bipartisan tools for bankrupting the country. Once our monetary system is destroyed; be assured that our democratic republic will be altered to save the country. Meanwhile conservatives consistently vote against their own best interests. My countrymen seem too stupid to handle or hold freedom. The government will use the noose of religion to you all.
american patriot commented:
Feel free to use this text. Can be sent by email; they all have email contacts at their web pages,
Congressman/Senator _______,
As congressman/senator you’ve taken the Article VI oath to support “this Constitution” – meaning, by virtue of the Framers’ deliberate use of the word “this” the written constitution – on more than one occasion. As recently as this past January you took and subscribed to this oath once again. In my view, when a man takes an oath his purpose is to live by the words of that oath.
The Constitution clearly gives the Congress, that is, you Congressman/Senator _______, the sole federal authority to declare war and to commit the country to hostilities. Not the executive branch, but rather only the Congress, the branch closest to the people. The president, a noun variation of the verb to preside over what the people’s representatives have directed, does not possess the authority to act on his own. Even the president’s commander-in-chief role can only be exercised in response to what Congress has directed.
As Lincoln observed in 1848, our Constitution was intended to deprive the chief executive of being and acting like a king.
In these last several days President Obama has either acted on this own in launching the country’s military forces or, perhaps even worse, at the behest of the UN, utterly cutting Congress out of the equation. Obama has no authority to do either. Qadaffi may be a bad guy, but that is no excuse for ignoring the Constitution or existing law.
If I may, I would, by recitation, remind you of Section 2 of the War Powers Revolution of 1973, Pub. L. 98-143, “It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgment of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.”
Congressman/Senator _______, PLEASE PROVIDE LEADERSHIP on this issue. Stop this usurpation of Congress’s power. Stop this president’s unlawful use of force against foreign countries.
Your name and address
phone
email
dunce commented:
One of the terms used to describe domestic policies used to deal with social problems that were not assigned by the constitution as as responsibilities to the federal govt. was “benign neglect” during Reagans time in the oval office. Obama sought this office for its inherent power without recognizing that neglecting a foreign relations problem could have life and death consequences much more serious than dealing with it in a timely manner. This is an area of his responsibility assigned to him by the constitution. His response appears to be a political cold calculation of which option would best enhance his odds for re-election. Many times his non-action could well be labelled “malign neglect” and too many of his actions simply “malign”.
Neo commented:
So does this make Obama, “Sarkozy’s poodle” ??
You know the world is upside down when a US president is led about by a “Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey”
Dave-O commented:
A phrase that once only libtards used to embrace is now perfectly fine with me: “Regime Change Begins at Home”
Pat the First commented:
“My countrymen seem too stupid to handle or hold freedom. The government will use the noose of religion to you all.”
“Religion” is one thing. “Christianity” is another. Unfortunately, Christianity is targetted now by just about every country right now. It is creeping all over the US.
For those who don’t believe or understand the Bible, this was all prophecied very correctly. We were commanded to know the signs. We are seeing it all unfolding before our very eyes.
Bigol commented:
If the world was consistent this would be the headlines today…
http://herbegerenews.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/monday-21-march-2011-war-protest/
MILLIONS MARCH ON CAPITOL
Obama pleads for “patience“
It is the protests sweeping throughout the United States during the past four days…
Over commented:
* Practicing the Sword of Global Governance (Government)
The UN told him it was a “GO!”
BO “swore an oath to “… preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.” He should have sworn to obey it.”
“This event is proof-positive evidence of two staggering realities: Obama refuses to accept the limitations on government, and particularly on his office, imposed by the Constitution, and Obama considers the United Nations to be a higher authority than Congress.”
“This event should be grounds for severe congressional censure, if not impeachment.”
“Obama’s action is not simply endorsement of global governance; it is submission to it.”
Where IS The Constitution?
http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2011/03/where-is-constitution.html
O:F commented:
#12:
Right on. It’s kind of ironic (or maybe just sad) how those churches and priests who now accept homosexuality, adultery and darwinism don’t realize that THEY are the false teachers mentioned in the new testament.
retire05 commented:
There are a few things, other than Obama’s previous comments on Iraq, that bother me about this whole Libyan thing.
We were told that Qdaffy was bombing the “rebels” in the city of Benghazi and that the U.N. voted to commit to a no-fly zone to protect the rebels. So it stands to reason that if Qdaffy is bombing them, there will be casualties.
Libya is loaded with international journalists who are trying to grab a scoop on the Libyian rebellion. So where are all the photos of the injured/dead rebels? And who exactly ARE the rebels? Who are we protecting? It has been known for a long time that Qdaffy had problems with the tribal leaders who are basically Islamists with a hatred for the U.S., as well as a deep hatred for al Qaeda (just as Mubark had a hatred for the radical Islamists and al Qaeda) Are we protecting these same Islamists that will come back to bite us in the rear?
Yesterday, Steve Harrigan of FoxNews, made a quick but interesting comment. He said that he had gone to the Benghazi hospitals thinking it would be full of those wounded by Qdaffy’s bombing raids. He said, as if in passing, there was no large number of wounded anymore than there would be on a normal weekend.
We are being lead to believe that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Libyians dying at the hands of Qdaffy. And we all know that these are Muslims, who parade their dead like trophies. So where are they, and who the hell are we really protecting?
Egypt is now falling to the Muslim Brotherhood. It seems that we are defending those nations that have a possibility of turning into mini-Irans with religious leadership that will not be friendly to the U.S. And if “humanitarian” causes are Obama’s reason for acting like Sarkozy’s poodle, what about Darfur, and other nations where not hundreds, but hundreds of thousands are dying at the hands of Islamic thugs?
Something is terribly wrong here.
bg commented:
++
Lamb: Where is the *Constitution?
[President Obama swore an oath to “...preserve, protect, and defend
the Constitution of the United States.” He should have sworn to obey
it.
Congress, alone, has the power to declare war, and to make all the laws necessary to engage in military conflict. The War Powers Act defines precisely what is required of the President before military action may commence.
President Obama launched 118 missiles and dropped 40 bombs
on Libya without a thought about Congress, or the Constitution.
He was quite concerned, however, about the United Nations. He hardly noticed the attacks on protesters until the United Nations Security Council approved a resolution authorizing the use of force against the Libyan government. Within hours after U.N. approval, the U.S. Military was engaged – without the knowledge or approval of Congress.
This event is proof-positive evidence of two staggering realities: Obama refuses to accept the limitations on government, and particularly on his office, imposed by the Constitution, and Obama considers the United Nations to be a higher authority than Congress.
This event should be grounds for severe
Congressional censure, if not impeachment.
When President Bush bombed Iraq, he had Congressional approval. Nevertheless, the left went berserk in protest, claiming that “Bush lied; people died.” In response to a question from a Boston Globe reporter, Obama said: “As President, I will not assert a constitutional authority to deploy troops in a manner contrary to an express limit imposed by Congress and adopted into law.” (Source: Boston Globe questionnaire on Executive Power Dec 20, 2007)
Obviously, Obama lied; people died. Where are the leftist protesters?
This issue is far more serious than simply pointing out again the duplicitous action (or inaction) of the progressive left. The fact that Obama disregarded the Constitution while submitting to the United Nations Security Council, and engaging the U.S. Military on the authority of a few leaders of other nations gathered in Paris, is behavior that cannot go unchallenged.
Obama's action is not simply endorsement
of global governance, it is submission to it.]
*albeit the Congressese read it, they obviously don’t get it, i however
believe it to have been a deliberate act of deception (aka: taqiyyah)..
[disclaimer: i agree with taking Qaddafi out, only i don't believe
that was the action taken, as they could not not try & protect
the people, but they could help Qaddaffi by pretending to..]
==
shibumi commented:
May I be the first to say…. STOP THIS ILLEGAL WAR!
And ask…. WHY DOES OBAMA HATE MUSLIMS?
NO MORE WAR FOR OIL!!
/wow, it is fun being a crazed libtard!
bg commented:
++
retire05 #16
Egypt is now falling to the Muslim Brotherhood.
you have confirmation of such a claim??
link please, thank you..
btw, the MB help 88 seats under Mubarack, until the people voted them out
in the last election, not to mention his clandestine (along with Syira & Libya)
aiding and abetting Saddam’s wmd programmes..
==
bg commented:
++
re: #20
help = held
==
retire05 commented:
bg, if we all remember, Bush not only personally went to the U.N. to speak on Iraq, he gained the Authorization For The Use Of Military Force In Iraq, a bill that even Harry (Real estate) Reid voted for. Bush also addressed Congress.
Where has Obama taken any of those actions? Simple answer; he hasn’t.
And it is clear, as outlined by Gates, that once we enter into hosilities with Libya, we own it, good, bad or indifferent. Again, who are we protecting in Libya? Radical Islamic tribal leaders and members of the Muslim Brotherhood? Where are all the photos of dead rebels? Why does the “humanitarian” actions not include food, water and medical supplies?
As I said before, something smells really fishy here.
George commented:
To # 16
You are right on the money. Something fishy is going on here.
bg commented:
++
gah, re: #20
(along with Syira & Libya) = (along with Syria & Libya)
Egypt via AJ-E
Libya Live Blog – March 21
==
retire05 commented:
bg, just exactly what did you think was going to happen in Egypt? True democracy?
From the Christian Science Monitor:
“The outcome (of the recent constititional amendments election) sets the stage for a quick transition to a new government, as advocated by the military council that’s been ruling Egypt since former President Hosni Mubarak was toppled by popular protests last month. But the truncated timeline means the new parties emerging in Egypt after decades of oppression could struggle to organize in time to find success in the elections. And opponents of the amendments say that the result gives unfair advantage to the two political groups that gained the deepest roots during Mr. Mubarak’s regime; THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD and the former ruling National Democratic Party.
The Muslim Brotherhood made a large effort to mobilize voters to cast ballots in support of the amendments.”
Accept it, bg, Obama seems hell bent on pumping up rebels that will create Islamic dominated governments that will come back to bite us in the ass. What we are witnessing is Iran, on a larger scale.
mcc commented:
I’m smelling it, too, retire05.
bg commented:
++
retire05 #22
you’re telling me something is fushy??
rotflmbo!! too funny..
that said & aside..
i specifically questioned about your MB claim to Egypt..
==
mmc commented:
The OIC is behind the regime change in Libya and called for the NFZ through the UN. OIC is calling for a Libyan Transitional Council to assist with regime change via rebels made up of Al Qaeda and the LIFG (Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) to take control with or without Gadhafi. The OIC’s goal is to further the caliphate. What will the future look like for America when the ME is dominated by anti -American body of countries united by the goals of the INTERNATIONAL propagation of Islam? Why are our military leaders going along with this???
retire05 commented:
bg, you seem to be an Obamaide drinker.
None of this mess in the ME is going to work out well for the U.S.
mercador commented:
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Don’t look to Govt. to fix this, better look to the Almighty God for this.
bg commented:
++
retire05 #25
may not be a “true democracy”??
hell, we don’t even have that!!
at any rate, the youth do not want to be tied down by
the MB.. nor any other religious Mullahcracy ala; Iran..
ME consensus is: the sooner Freedom & Democracy comes to the
ME the sooner AQ et al will be swept into the dustbin of history..
BUSH WAS RIGHT!!
let the domino’s fall..
alas, as i’ve been saying ad nauseum, and will
continue to say as many times as necessary:
WE HAVE MORE TO FEAR FROM ISLAMISM aka: POLITICAL ISLAM
aka: SAHRIA LAW OVER HERE THAN THEY EVER WILL OVER THERE
==
retire05 commented:
bg, I provided you with the money quote from the Christian Science Monitor.
Now, perhaps you can give me your source that the “youths” (of which nation, you did not say) do not want an Islamist government. Or are you gleening your information from Al Jeezera? Yeah, they are really reliable. No vested interest there.
I ususally don’t respond to you because you are a “useful idiot”. Thanks for reminding me why.
bg commented:
++
seriously, seems to me that certain powers that be want US to fear
Freedom & Democracy coming to the Middle East & African nations..
also seems to me that many of US were happier taking what they have for
granted while others suffer under extremely tyrannical to mildly repressive
dictators.. not only that, but many more crapping all over said freedoms vs
being grateful to the greatest country (albeit not the best it can be) on
planet Earth…. how convenient for our enemies from within, not to mention
the ones created by the aforementioned governments..
the main reason for all the turmoil in the Middle East & Africa is not poverty
etc, but the lack of Freedom & Democracy.. and imho, it’s about time they
had some of what we have, tas GWB siad, it’s going to be a long war, and if
Obama hasn’t already sold US out (along with every other NWO prog-dems),
then imho, it will be well worth it for my yet to be great great grandkids..
==
Big L commented:
This is another of the Left’s “meals-on-wheels” Army plan. They want the military to fail, to look foolish, to look incompeternt. Justifies budget cuts and isvery self-satisfying for the left and libs.
All kabuki. all theatre. More of Axel and Jarrett’s efforts to control the newsday and drive the Health care and budget disaster issues off the front page (or page10) and away from the dinner table. Don’t fall for it.
The GOP is doing a terrible job. No publicized plans thatare positive, no defunding, no budget cuts.Head under their wings the GOP is justtrying to getto the fall when the election season starts “and nothing can be done now” and “we will have to cut in the next congress session”.
“Defund?Not a good idea now” and “We will defund in 2013″, and “nothing is happening now”
>We need a whole new congress. Ones that will do what they say to get elected, and thus what we want them do do.”
Redwine commented:
By protecting Libyan civilians from the Libyan regime, the actions of the coalition, under the aegis of the UN – actually an excuse to “protect” Al-Qaeda-aligned “rebels” in Libya – might just be a dress rehearsal for the moves they might take on Israel if it goes after the Hezbos in Lebanon or Hamas in Gaza. The Hussein regime now defers to the UN and looks on Israel with intense disdain (read: hatred).
If Hezballah decides to provoke Israel by launching some rockets at Israeli towns and if Israel responds defensively against the Hezbos, who are now the dominant power in the Lebanese government, the UN might (read: probably) decide to invoke its R2P policy (“Responsibility to Protect”: http://tinyurl.com/4jv5f4u) against Israel. This policy is supposed to protect civilian populations under attack, but it doesn’t consider Israeli civilians as worthy of protection against Islamist missile terror attacks.
The situation becomes even more frightening if the “Palestinians” declare themselves a state and it is accepted as such into the UN. This terror state-in-the-making has already declared that it wants to be an apartheid, judenrein (“Jew-free”) entity. The UN might invoke R2P, not against the attacking “Palestinians”, but against Israel, if the IDF acts against the terrorists carrying out genocide. Hussein’s foreign policy adviser, Samantha Power (wife of the notorious “Regulatory Czar”, Cass Sunstein), admitted that she would support a confrontation with the IDF to “protect” the “Palestinians”.
Direct US involvement would cause a serious, bipartisan uprising in Congress. I believe, therefore, that the UN would have the perfect excuse to create a coalition to do this heinous deed.
A terrible prospect. Something to consider.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/the_rise_of_samantha_power_and.html
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/03/20/responsibility-to-protect-not-remotely-new/
bg commented:
++
retire05 #32
“money quote”, what’s that.. proof??
and where is the “money quote” link??
i (& Valerie) have been posting about the YOUTH movement since day
one, sorry you missed all the links, more here, not to mention the one i
posted here..
re: retire05 #16
[Egypt is now falling to the Muslim Brotherhood.
you have confirmation of such a claim??
link please, thank you..]
found my own link, thanks anyways…
[3) The Military & the MB & the Salafis & the NDP were pushing for a YES vote. The Military, as always, just wanted to get out of this mess as quickly as possible, and the YES vote meant just that for them without having to face any real headaches. The rest knew that a YES vote gives them the best chances to win the Parliament and thus re-write the new constitution, and they had the money and the organization and tools to push for it. You didn’t.]
more here as well..
==
bg commented:
++
don’t know what happened, here’s the link again..
==
bg commented:
++
re: #32
[I ususally don’t respond to you because you are
a “useful idiot”. Thanks for reminding me why.]
yeah right, another “money quote” no doubt..
==
Valerie commented:
#32 March 21, 2011 at 1:22 pm
retire05 commented:
*******************
You shouldn’t blame bg because BO is a useless idiot. Bg has been keeping up with the news from Egypt since about 2005, and she knows that the MB, which originated in its modern form in Egypt, lost big in the last election, mainly because its associates in Iran, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Yemen, Indonesia, Iraq, and Gaza, just to name a few, have made a mess of things.
The situation in Egypt is the most positive of all the restive countries in the Middle East, mainly because the diverse elements of the government, the protesters, and the army have all made a commitment to respect one another’s opinions and value one anothers’ lives.
At one time, BO could have had a very positive influence on the situation in Egypt, simply by saying a few kind words about an old man that had kept the peace for 30 years (an accomplishment that remains widely respected in Egypt) and also about the legitimate demands of a protest movement that sprang from all levels of society. Had he done so, he could have been a hero, the situation could have been cooled down a bit, and the elections would very likely have been in September instead of June, thereby allowing a smoother transition period.
This Egyptian movement is a demand for reforms that would bring back rights the Egyptian people enjoyed in living memory. It is, in fact, a conservative reform movement. For the past twenty years or so, and increasingly over the last decade, the government, and most particularly the police as opposed to the army, has been cracking down on bloggers and journalists, sometimes kidnapping, sometimes killing them, while pretending to keep the Muslim Brotherhood under control.
bg commented:
++
look, you can call me all the names you want, i was not attacking you, all
i did was ask you for a link, and albeit far from being written in stone, not
arguing with you bout the outcome..
that said..
what i am arguing with you about is: IT IS A FACT THAT THE FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY YOUTH MOVEMENT SUPPORT THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AS MUCH AS THEY DID MUBARACK’S GOVERNMENT, OF WHICH SO FAR SEEMS TO BE THEY GOT THE “STATUS QUO” IN RETURN FOR ALL THEIR TROUBLES
however, it’s far from over, and i for one will support their
quest for FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY until my dying breath..
==
retire05 commented:
Valerie, if you think that the Muslim Brotherhood is not a major player in Egypt, you are as clueless as bg. Youths? To do what? Turn Egypt into Iran on the Nile? Remember, it was the “youths” that rioted in Iran during Carter and gave us a radical Islamic nation that is now seeking nuclear weapons.
If Egypt is so close to being a nation where all its people can live freely, then why are the Copts so worried? Why is the Muslim Brotherhood now considered one of the two political parties that are being predicted to take over Egyptian politics?
Mubarak DID keep the MB under control. And while I am not denying that he was a dictator who also persecuted journalists, he at least kept the hounds from nipping at OUR ankles.
I really don’t care what bg’s opinion is. I get my information from those who are actively involved in the ME, not some anonymous poster on a blog site.
You seem to discount the fact that these people are, first and foremost, MUSLIMS, and their religion is not condusive to any form of democracy. Islam doesn’t allow for the freedom of thought, or actions, for that matter.
So if you think this will work out well for us, you are just as much of a “useful idiot” as bg.
bg commented:
++
correction re:: #40
OF WHICH SO FAR SEEMS TO BE WHAT THEY
GOT IN RETURN FOR ALL THEIR TROUBLES..
==
Valerie commented:
Oh, yeah – if you want to find out the best source of information about the Jan 25 youth group, bg has given it to you. It’s here. http://www.sandmonkey.org/
And if you want to know how they’re going to prevent the takeover of Egypt by the Muslim Brotherhood, here’s one plan.
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2011/03/20/playing-politics/#comments
You can also look to Al Jazeera for strict news stories. They are very good about reporting on who, what, where and when in their news stories. They are also very good about interviews in that they let a person talk a long time, and ask good questions. Their opinion pieces tend to spin off into the wild, blue yonder, though, so why and how are not so good.
retire05 commented:
bg, if you are going to “support their quest for FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY until your dying breath” I suggest you get the hell off this blog and catch the first plane to Cairo.
Put your money where you mouth is.
bg commented:
++
retire05 #41
you’ve admittedly missed 99% of my posts, of which a great percentage are
in reference to the MB et al, you did not comprehend what i wrote, yet you
call me a “useful idiot” and you continue to not only assail me, but someone
else even more educated re: the MB than even i could hope to be??
bottom line:
your twisting my or Valerie’s words to fit your agenda and calling us
names will not help help you prove we are the “useless idiots” here..
i repeat..
however, it’s far from over, and i for one will support their
quest for FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY until my dying breath..
if that makes me a “useful idiot”..
time for you to take a good look in a mirror..
==
bg commented:
++
re: #45
your = you’re
eh, just pardon all typo’s today, thanks..
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #44
if only i could, perhaps i would..
the fact is however, that it would do neither i nor Egypt
any good, but you know that so what’s your real point??
to prove trolls exist on both sides of the isle.. duh
==
Redwine commented:
Regarding my comment #35, where the UN-sponsored action over Libya sets an ominous prospect for Israel, Turkey has precisely honed in on this idea, with respect to the dangerous concept of R2P, championed by Samantha Power: Turkey’s Deputy Prime Minister calls for bombing of Israel – http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/turkeys_deputy_prime_minister.html
Also read Frank Gaffney’s column in Big Peace: http://bigpeace.com/fgaffney/2011/03/20/the-gaddafi-precedent/
BTW – Soros is behind the effort to push R2P. This is horrendous.
bg commented:
++
thanks for the links Redwine #35 & #48..
even though Turkey is supposedly out of the Qaddafi mix,
they seem to be right in the middle stirring it all the same..
like i keep saying, “Welcome to the NWO”, it may not
look like it right now, but it’s a done deal on paper..
and at the risk of virtual rotten tomatoes being thrown at me for the
following ad nauseum statement, Obama is the chosen “transitioner”,
and we ain’t seen nothin’ yet..
==
Redwine commented:
Exactly, bg. The NWO indeed and the global gulag for those who don’t fit the mold.
No rotten tomatoes from me. And we definitely ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
bg commented:
++
retire05 #29
another “useful idiot” i suppose..
==
Valerie commented:
#41 March 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm
retire05 commented:
**************
You are mistaken if you think you are proceeding good information.
Sure, you’re new to some of our news sources. We got stuck using them because the LSM is full of FOS. They weren’t even reporting on this story in Egypt when we picked it up. Then came the news that the White House was following this all on Al Jazeera. During the Bush administration, the White House had better sources of information than any news network. This development was not encouraging, to say the least.
However, the links bg has been posting are the ones where the Jan25 protesters have themselves been getting their news, be it pictures of police id taken of “civilian” “youth protesters” “rioting” in Tahrir square, or speeches by all the players in Egyptian politics, often in real time, translations of same, pictures of the old folks, and the women, among the protesters, police on camels, you name it. I’ve verified story after story that first appeared via twitter at one or the other of these sites:
http://twitter.com/Sandmonkey
http://twitter.com/ghonim#
Neither of these sites are anonymous. You would know this if you had read my comments, with the attached links. You’d also know that both of those individuals risked their lives in order to participate in these protests, and that both have been instrumental in their organization. And if you’d followed the links, you’d know their names. In particular, you would know The Sandmonkey’s name, and why bg and I feared for his life.
It takes a day for Al Jazeera to catch up (except for the speeches, those run in real time because they are broadcast), and 3 days for the US media. The US president apparently takes about a month. Meanwhile, news stories about Egypt in the US media hit the Jan25 network the day they are published.
Twitter is hard to read, and I don’t like it half so well as other media, but it so happens that, in the Middle East right now, it’s where the raw news originates. I don’t like Facebook, either, but if there is a decent government built in Egypt over the next 5 years, it will be a government that has its origins on Facebook. That wasn’t my choice. It is where the Jan 25 organizers are.
Jim Hoft, a good friend and huge supporter of the effort in Iraq, fell behind on the entire story in Egypt, mainly because he was focused on events here at home. I don’t blame him for that, because what he was doing was important, useful, and time-consuming. Still, he has been confusing the Jan 25 protesters with the Muslim Brotherhood, and the distinction is indeed important, which is why bg and I have been adding the followup information.
retire05 commented:
bg, sorry, but in my book, you don’t run you mouth about how you support some fraction with your “dying breath” while sitting safely in front of your monitor. It is empty talk. But that is something you seem to excel at.
You can “hope” all will turn out fine in the ME, but history has a way of showing us that things do not always turn out as we hoped. And I noticed that Sandmonkey did not mention the problems with the vote on the constitutional amendments, such as maintaining Sharia law in Egypt that will only serve to persecute the Copts even more, nor did he mention that the MB were out strongly trying to get people to vote “yes” on the ballot.
Now, you can live in LaLaLand, thinking that Egypt, Libya, and the rest of the ME will not turn out badly, but in order to do that, you have to discount Islam, and the fact that most of these protesters are no different than the protesters were in Iran when the Shah was ousted.
bg commented:
++
Redwine #35
here’s the thing, it’s more or less the same set up Saddam had, Qaddafi
forces are as bad as AQ, and the citizens are boxed in between AQ and
Qaddafi forces..
i’m all for quashing Qaddafi & freeing the
citizens, and let them take care of AQ..
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #53
and what do you support that your presence is so highly missed??
if you wish to pay for a disabled 66 year old to go to Egypt and sit in a room
at a computer (that’s if i survive the flight), let me know, but i’m telling you
now, even if you called me Teflon Granny, the docs won’t let me go..
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #53
re: Sandmonkey
uh, neither did you..
but at the risk of another stupid ala TW go round, got a link??
btw, i suppose he’s as much a “useful idiot” as are all the Jan#25
YOUTH in your OPINION, which btw, does not equate fact, go fig..
==
retire05 commented:
bg, so now the excuse is “the docs won’t let me go”? Got it? Although, I don’t see that your age has anything to do with it. My own mother, 87 years young, is one of the most active TEA Partiers I know and she doesn’t make excuses, like you seem to do.
But since the “docs” won’t let you go, then supporting anything with “your last dying breath” is just so much hyperbole.
Now, since you seem to be nothing more than an aged invalid, I will provide you with a few comments:
Reuters:
Mar. 20, 2011
Many Egyptians Chrisstians vote “no”, fearing Islamists
Cairo- Many Egyptian Christians say they voted on Saturday to reject proposed constitutional amendments in a referendum because they fear hasty electin to follow may open the door for Islamist groups to rise to power……………
It is widely assumed that quick elections would give an advantage to the well-established Muslim Brotherhood, a ground founded in the 1920s which has emerged as the best organised political force since Hosni Mubarak was toppled from power.
The New York Times
Mar. 21, 2011
Egyptian voters overwhelmingly approved a referendum on constitutional changes on Sunday that will usher in rapid elections, with the results UNDERSCORING THE STRENGTH OF ESTABLISHED POLITICAL ORGANIZATIONS, PARTICULARLY THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, and the weakness of emerging liberal groups.
Now, bg, for all your passion about giving them your dying breath support (which you really can’t do so it is just so much rhetoric) the Muslim Brotherhood is considered the most well organized political group in Egypt, and anyone with two grey cells bumping together know they are poised to take control of Egyptian politics.
Perhaps you are foolish enough to think that will not play out badly for the U.S., but I’m not.
retire05 commented:
Oh, and another thing, bgGranny, if you want to travel somewhere, do it on your own dime. I am not in the business of supporting useful idiots.
bg commented:
++
retire05
whatever troll..
==
retire05 commented:
I see, grannybg, anyone who disputes you is a troll. Well, if you had anything of value to say that disputed my claim that the MB is poised to take control in Egypt, you would have presented it. Instead, you call me a troll.
You are the troll, letting your mouth write checks your ass can’t cover.
bg commented:
++
#52
thank you Valerie..
alas i’m not wasting any more time on a poster who not only ignores facts,
but is only interested in their own opinion and personally attacking others..
==
retire05 commented:
bg, what a hypocrite you are. I ignore facts? You are ignoring the FACTS as not only outlined by the New York Times (who has no dog in the hunt) but Reuters, as well.
Dispute the FACT that the elections in Egypt last Sunday gave the MB even more strength that was originally thought.
Sandmonkey can deny the MB has any influence in the Egyptian riots all he wants, but it was not Sandmonkey Medea Benjamin of CodePink was meeting with.
You remain a useful idiot. I can only assume you are a product of public education.
Redwine commented:
Some interesting news: Gaddafi’s son, Khamis, might have been killed in a kamikaze attack.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368410/Libya-crisis-Gaddafi-uses-civilians-human-shields-prevent-military-targets.html
bg commented:
++
retire05 #59
so you don’t want to put your money where you put my mouth, got it..
like i said, whatever..
==
bg commented:
++
Redwine #64
oh my, haven’t heard anything about that as
yet, but then again i wasn’t listening either..
thanks..
via – Libya Live Blog – March 21
==
retire05 commented:
bg, I put my money where my mouth is. I quoted both the New York Times, and Reuters, which both said that the MB was poised to be in a strong place in Egyptian politics.
It is you, sadly, that has no argument. You have refused, through your silence, to even comment on the articles I quoted. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why.
As to putting my money where you put your mouth, why would I do that when you are ignoring the nose on your face. Besides, I don’t know where your mouth has been. (I dread to even think).
I won’t say that you are painfully uninformed, but maybe the next time you see the “docs” you should discuss getting an Rx for Aracept.
Andreas K. commented:
Political islam? What’s that? Islam is political. Islam is not a religion. It’s a socio-political system. Seriously. All this talk about “islamism” is pointless.
Show me just one single mohammedan country that is a democracy. A working democracy. Even just remotely. You won’t find one. Pakistan? Nope, definitely not. Malaysia? Uh… no way. Turkey? No, it worked in Turkey because Atatürk wanted islam out of politics. With islamo-nazi Führer Erdogan in charge it’s not working anymore.
Why?
Because of islam. Not political islam. Not islamists. Just islam. Yes, it’s that simple.
Some of you people just don’t get it. Get over here, seriously, and see how islam in itself is political, that you can’t make a difference between “islam” and “political islam”. Sharia law is an integral part of islam. It belongs to it. Without islam no sharia law, without sharia law no islam. Honestly, you yanks sit a few thousand miles away from Europe. It’s easy to comment when you don’t have this sh*t ideology on your doorstep and when you don’t have a history of centuries of mohammedan aggression.
As long as islam plays an active role, these countries won’t have freedom or democracy. Yes, it’s that simple. Now, if Egypt had an Atatürk, then maybe, but they don’t. They don’t have a guy who calls islam a “rotten corpse” which “poisons our lives”. Even their most liberal politician drops on his knees five times a day.
We should ban islam in all civilized countries. No, not “political islam”, not “islamism”. Neither of those exist. Those are just weasel words invented by the media and politicians who have, as usual, no idea. And no, that wouldn’t violate freedom of religion, since islam is not a religion, but rather a socio-political fascist system.
bg commented:
++
Andreas K. #68
your point??
your solution??
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #67
go back, read posts..
then get back to me as to why you’re arguing with yourself in my name??
==
retire05 commented:
Bg/granny, again, may I suggest a Rx for Aracept? You seem terribly confused. I said that the Muslim Brotherhood is poised to take over Egypt. You, and your butt buddy, gave me some crap about Sandmonkey, the Jan. 25th movement, yada, yada, yada and how you would support their goals of freedom and democracy to your dying breath (cheap talk when you don’t have to back it up).
But when I posted quotes from both the NYTs and Reuters that backed up my opinion, you go off on some tangent about “docs” and being old and more yada, yada, yada. You could not offer a debate to the articles, so you made some lame statement about not responding to me again. That held water as much as anything else you have ever said on this site. IOW, NONE.
You got bitch slapped, toots, but you cannot bring yourself to admit that as long as the Middle Eastern nations remain Islamic, there will be no form of democracy. All Egypt has done is trade one dictator for another, like Iran did.
Now your comments are a lesson in senility. I highly recommend you seek out one of the “docs” and get that Aracept, asap.
tommy mc donnell commented:
politicans engage in this kind of hypocrisy all the time. the problem is the american people that continue to vote for politicans that talk out of both sides of their mouth. the bought and paid for voter doesn’t care what the politicans do. the only way honest people can get control of this country is to end the dole.
bg commented:
++
Andreas K. #68
i believe Islam is evil too, however, millions of Muslims do not,
ergo, solutions are needed for the real world, not the wishful
thinking..
fact is Muslims have lived in the US for decades w/out Sharia Law, they
have however become more aggressive with their own as well as US
infidels since 9/11, and absolutely bold and brazen since Obama..
we need to elect an anti-Islamist aka: Political Islam aka: Sharia Law
president the likes of an Allen West else we succumb our future gens
to a hell of a lot more than trillions in debt..
we need to oust our pro-Islamist aka: Political Islam aka: Sharia
Law representatives the likes of Connolly, Moran and Kaine..
more here..
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #71
GOD BLESS THE FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY YOUTH MOVEMENT!!
AND THANK YOU GWB FOR YOUR COURAGE
TO GET THE BALL ROLLING SO TO SPEAK..
==
bg commented:
++
retire05 #71
re: [You got bitch slapped, toots,]
says more about you than me..
ROTFLMBO!!
==
retire05 commented:
bg, see you are still avoiding commenting on the articles I quoted.
And if you think you even came close to laying a glove on me, you don’t need Aracept, you need to be committed. But hey, if you think being delusional that you could ever best me makes you feel better about yourself, whatever floats your boat.
You wouldn’t last 8 seconds.
Now, you continue to show your ignorance as there is no separation between Islam the religion and Islam the political philosophy. Andreas tried to explain that to you. But it seems there is nothing absorbent between your ears.
bg commented:
++
Redwine #64
still haven’t heard anything about that via
local news or AJ-E, which is down btw..
worse than the balckout during Mubarack’s siege
on the protesters coverage, not a good sign..
==
bg commented:
#36 March 21, 2011 at 1:50 pm
bg commented:
++
retire05 #32
“money quote”, what’s that.. proof??
and where is the “money quote” link??
i (& Valerie) have been posting about the YOUTH movement since day
one, sorry you missed all the links, more here, not to mention the one i
posted here..
re: retire05 #16
[Egypt is now falling to the Muslim Brotherhood.
you have confirmation of such a claim??
link please, thank you..]
found my own link, thanks anyways…
[3) The Military & the MB & the Salafis & the NDP were pushing for a YES vote. The Military, as always, just wanted to get out of this mess as quickly as possible, and the YES vote meant just that for them without having to face any real headaches. The rest knew that a YES vote gives them the best chances to win the Parliament and thus re-write the new constitution, and they had the money and the organization and tools to push for it. You didn’t.]
more here as well..
==
SamRitter5000 commented:
The hypocrisy and double standards from this administration is at this point, no longer shocking. It is intellectually dishonest at best and a sign of vast corruption at worst. Or perhaps even worse, the Democrats have no real standards and simply choose to act all willy-nilly. That might explain some of this.
http://samschaos.blogspot.com/2011/03/ruminations-from-void_21.html
bg commented:
++
Islam: Governing Under Sharia
Introduction
Sharia, or Islamic law, influences the legal code in most Muslim countries. A movement to allow sharia to govern personal status law, a set of regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is even expanding into the West. “There are so many varying interpretations of what sharia actually means that in some places it can be incorporated into political systems relatively easily,” says Steven A. Cook, CFR senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies. Sharia’s influence on both personal status law and criminal law is highly controversial, though. Some interpretations are used to justify cruel punishments such as amputation and stoning as well as unequal treatment of women in inheritance, dress, and independence. The debate is growing as to whether sharia can coexist with secularism, democracy, or even modernity.
What is Sharia?
Also meaning “path” in Arabic, sharia guides all aspects of Muslim life including daily routines, familial and religious obligations, and financial dealings. It is derived primarily from the Quran and the Sunna–the sayings, practices, and teachings of the Prophet Mohammed. Precedents and analogy applied by Muslim scholars are used to address new issues. The consensus of the Muslim community also plays a role in defining this theological manual.
Sharia developed several hundred years after the Prophet Mohammed’s death in 632 CE as the Islamic empire expanded to the edge of North Africa in the West and to China in the East. Since the Prophet Mohammed was considered the most pious of all believers, his life and ways became a model for all other Muslims and were collected by scholars into what is known as the hadith. As each locality tried to reconcile local customs and Islam, hadith literature grew and developed into distinct schools of Islamic thought: the Sunni schools, Hanbali, Maliki, Shafi’i, Hanafi; and the Shiite school, Ja’fari. Named after the scholars that inspired them, they differ in the weight each applies to the sources from which sharia is derived, the Quran, hadith, Islamic scholars, and consensus of the community. The Hanbali school, known for following the most Orthodox form of Islam, is embraced in Saudi Arabia and by the Taliban. The Hanafi school, known for being the most liberal and the most focused on reason and analogy, is dominant among Sunnis in Central Asia, Egypt, Pakistan, India, China, Turkey, the Balkans, and the Caucasus. The Maliki school is dominant in North Africa and the Shafi’i school in Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei Darussalam, and Yemen. Shia Muslims follow the Ja’fari school, most notably in Shia-dominant Iran. The distinctions have more impact on the legal systems in each country, however, than on individual Muslims, as many do not adhere to one school in their personal lives.
==
bg commented:
++
re: #80
Controversy: Punishment and Equality under Sharia
Marriage and divorce are the most significant aspects of sharia, but criminal law is the most controversial. In sharia, there are categories of offenses: those that are prescribed a specific punishment in the Quran, known as hadd punishments, those that fall under a judge’s discretion, and those resolved through a tit-for-tat measure (ie., blood money paid to the family of a murder victim). There are five hadd crimes: unlawful sexual intercourse (sex outside of marriage and adultery), false accusation of unlawful sexual intercourse, wine drinking (sometimes extended to include all alcohol drinking), theft, and highway robbery. Punishments for hadd offenses–flogging, stoning, amputation, exile, or execution–get a significant amount of media attention when they occur. These sentences are not often prescribed, however. “In reality, most Muslim countries do not use traditional classical Islamic punishments,” says Ali Mazrui of the Institute of Global Cultural Studies in a Voice of America interview. These punishments remain on the books in some countries but lesser penalties are often considered sufficient.
Despite official reluctance to use hadd punishments, vigilante justice still takes place. Honor killings, murders committed in retaliation for bringing dishonor on one’s family, are a worldwide problem. While precise statistics are scarce, the UN estimates thousands of women are killed annually in the name of family honor (National Geographic). Other practices that are woven into the sharia debate, such as female genital mutilation, adolescent marriages, polygamy, and gender-biased inheritance rules, elicit as much controversy. There is significant debate over what the Quran sanctions and what practices were pulled from local customs and predate Islam. Those that seek to eliminate or at least modify these controversial practices cite the religious tenet of tajdid. The concept is one of renewal, where Islamic society must be reformed constantly to keep it in its purest form. “With the passage of time and changing circumstances since traditional classical jurisprudence was founded, people’s problems have changed and conversely, there must be new thought to address these changes and events,” says Dr. Abdul Fatah Idris, head of the comparative jurisprudence department at Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Though many scholars share this line of thought, there are those who consider the purest form of Islam to be the one practiced in the seventh century.
==
bg commented:
++
re: #81
Sharia vs. Secularism
In a 2007 University of Maryland poll (PDF), more than 60 percent of the populations in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, and Indonesia responded that democracy was a good way to govern their respective countries, while at the same time, an average of 71 percent agreed with requiring “strict application of [sharia] law in every Islamic country.” Whether democracy and Islam can coexist is a topic of heated debate. Some Islamists argue democracy is a purely Western concept imposed on Muslim countries. Others feel Islam necessitates a democratic system and that democracy has a basis in the Quran since “mutual consultation” among the people is commended (42:38 Quran). John L. Esposito and John O. Voll explain the debate in a 2001 article in the journal Humanities.
Noah Feldman, a former CFR adjunct senior fellow, writes in a 2008 New York Times Magazine article that the full incorporation of Islamic law is viewed as creating “a path to just and legitimate government in much of the Muslim world.” It places duplicitous rulers alongside their constituents under the rule of God. “For many Muslims today, living in corrupt autocracies, the call for [sharia] is not a call for sexism, obscurantism or savage punishment but for an Islamic version of what the West considers its most prized principle of political justice: the rule of law,” Feldman argues.
On the other hand, some Muslim scholars say that secular government is the best way to observe sharia. “Enforcing a [sharia] through coercive power of the state negates its religious nature, because Muslims would be observing the law of the state and not freely performing their religious obligation as Muslims,” says Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im, a professor of law at Emory University and author of a book on the future of sharia. Opinions on the best balance of Islamic law and secular law vary, but sharia has been incorporated into political systems in three general ways:
==
bg commented:
++
re: 82
* Dual Legal System. Many majority Muslim countries have a dual system in which the government is secular but Muslims can choose to bring familial and financial disputes to sharia courts. The exact jurisdiction of these courts varies from country to country, but usually includes marriage, divorce, inheritance, and guardianship. Examples can be seen in Nigeria and Kenya, which have sharia courts that rule on family law for Muslims. A variation exists in Tanzania, where civil courts apply sharia or secular law according to the religious backgrounds of the defendants. Several countries, including Lebanon and Indonesia, have mixed jurisdiction courts based on residual colonial legal systems and supplemented with sharia. Western countries are also exploring the idea of allowing Muslims to apply Islamic law in familial and financial disputes. In late 2008, Britain officially allowed sharia tribunals (NYT) governing marriage, divorce, and inheritance to make legally binding decisions if both parties agreed. The new system is in line with separate mediation allowed for Anglican and Jewish communities in England. Criminal law remains under the gavel of the existing legal system. “There is no reason why principles of sharia law, or any other religious code, should not be the basis for mediation,” Britain’s top judge, Lord Nicholas Phillips, said in a July 2008 speech (PDF). Supporters of this initiative, such as the archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, argue that it would help maintain social cohesion (BBC) in European societies increasingly divided by religion. However, some research suggests the process to be discriminatory toward women (BBC). Other analysts suggest the system has led to grey areas. Britain’s Muslims come from all over the world, Ishtiaq Ahmed, a spokesperson for the Council for Mosques in England, told the BBC, noting that this makes it hard to discern at times “where the rulings of the sharia finish and long-held cultural practices start.” Sharia has recently become a topic of political concern in the United States. The state of Oklahoma passed a ballot measure in November 2010 to ban the use of sharia law in court cases, which supporters are calling “a preemptive strike against Islamic law” (ABCNews). Several opponents of new mosques being built around the United States, including one near Ground Zero, have cited fear of the spread of sharia as a reason for opposition. And about a third of Americans in an August 2010 Newsweek poll suspect U.S. President Barack Obama sympathizes with Islamist goals (PDF) to impose sharia.
* Government under God. In those Muslim countries where Islam is the official religion listed in the constitution, sharia is declared to be a source, or the source, of the laws. Examples include Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen, and the United Arab Emirates, where the governments derive their legitimacy from Islam. In Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and Iraq, among others, it is also forbidden to enact legislation that is antithetical to Islam. Saudi Arabia employs one of the strictest interpretations of sharia. Women are not allowed to drive, are under the guardianship of male relatives at all times, and must be completely covered in public. Elsewhere, governments are much more lenient, as in the United Arab Emirates, where alcohol is tolerated. Non-Muslims are not expected to obey sharia and in most countries, they are the jurisdiction of special committees and adjunct courts under the control of the government.
* Completely Secular. Muslim countries where the government is declared to be secular in the constitution include Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Chad, Somalia, and Senegal. Islamist parties run for office occasionally in these countries and sharia often influences local customs. Popular Islamist groups are often viewed as a threat by existing governments. As in Azerbaijan in the 1990s, secularism is sometimes upheld by severe government crackdowns on Islamist groups and political parties. Similar clashes have occurred in Turkey. Under the suspicion that the majority party, the Islamist Justice and Development Party, was trying to establish sharia, Turkey’s chief prosecutor petitioned the constitutional court (Economist) in March 2008 to bar the party from politics altogether. One of the politicians indicted, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, told Newsweek, “Turkey has achieved what people said could never be achieved–a balance between Islam, democracy, secularism and modernity.” Secular Muslim countries are a minority, however, and the popularity of Islamist political parties are narrowing the gap between religion and state.
==
bg commented:
++
re: #83
Modern Economies and Sharia
Growing at an estimated 15 percent annually, Islamic banking and finance is a worldwide industry that modifies modern business practices to conform to the rules of sharia. Central to this field is riba, the charging or payment of interest, banned under Islamic law. Clever twists on standard financial products like credit cards, savings accounts, mortgages, loans, and even trust funds bypass the interest business model. A 2008 report by the General Council for Islamic Banks and Financial Institutions estimates the Islamic banking industry to stand at $442 billion. Even big name banks such as Citigroup, HSBC, and Deutsche Bank are developing Islamic banking sectors to cater to the demand. The industry is small in comparison to the global market, but may grow as some non-Muslims are turning to sharia-compliant services. Some of the ethically minded are also switching over to sharia-compliant investments. Businesses are required to avoid transactions related to forbidden things, such as weapons, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, pornography and pork, and investors are guaranteed that their money won’t end up financing those industries. Governments are also looking to get a piece of the pie: Malaysia is the largest issuer of sharia-compliant bonds and Indonesia launched its own in January 2009.
==
bg commented:
++
‘Democracy and political Islam can’t coexist’
[Jasser, raised in Wisconsin by Syrian immigrant parents, describes himself as a devout Sunni Muslim, but his organization’s unyielding battle against political Islam has placed him in the crosshairs of groups like the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the Islamic Center of America, which he says have failed to adequately address the “insidious separatism” of political Islam.
In a phone interview from Phoenix with The Jerusalem Post, Jasser offers no apology for testifying in this month’s contentious House of Representatives hearing on Muslim radicalization in the US. He says the committee chairman, New York Republican Rep. Peter King, “provided an opportunity for Muslims to talk about how we are going to solve our own problems.”
Of the last 220 arrests by the US Department of Justice on terror
charges, Jasser notes, more than 180 of the suspects were Muslims.
“You have 1.5 percent of the population
that is over 80% of the arrests,” he says.
“And the arc has been increasing.”
Rather than remain on the defensive, Jasser says, the US and the West at
large must take a muscular, offensive approach toward promoting the ideals
of liberalism. Those who say democracy and political Islam can peacefully
coexist, he says, are ill-informed.
“They don’t understand democracy. My devout Muslim parents and
grandparents understood Sharia. They understood that Sharia, while
it means God’s law, is actually man’s law – once it is implemented in
any fashion, it becomes man’s law.”
Democracy, Jasser says, means more than
elections; it means protection of the individual.
“We need to start having a conversation about what exactly we mean
by democracy,” says Jasser, a firm proponent of what he refers to as
“separation of mosque and state.”
“There’s a reason the US Constitution doesn’t have the word Christian in it,” he notes. “You can’t really have a Jew or a Christian as president of an Islamic society run by Islamic law. You don’t really have equal rights under God, but rather under Islam.”]
more @ link & much more here..
==
bg commented:
++
SamRitter5000 #79
thanks, i know most of them by heart, and quite a few more to boot..
albeit there has always been a double standard, it has more or less been
out of control since 02, and non existent today, as there is no standard,
Obama is all & all is Obama..
==
bg commented:
++
“The Extent of Radicalization” Among American Muslims
Q & A
[4. Why do you have so many critics on the left?
I just don't get it. I'm one of the most outspoken American Muslim voices for women's rights, pluralism, our First Amendment and the central nature of our Establishment Clause (the separation of mosque and state) toward defeating political Islam. And yet, many in the left have seemed tone deaf to all these traditionally sympathetic ideas to look through the jaundiced eye of partisan politics. They cannot seem to depart from the thought that American Muslims are victims.]
Earth to Jasser, i fear there are many on the right as well, hell they’d
rather be right than people be free, sort of a self fulfilling prophecy..
more @ link here & here..
==
retire05 commented:
bg, exactly what is your point of all the cut and paste? Are you really incapable of debate, or making comments that generate from your own mind?
If anyone has questions about Sharia law, or the opinions of Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, I am sure they can figure out how to find that information on their own.
Basically all you have done is take up band width.
You have now gone from the ridiculous to the absurd.