UW HEALTH WILL INVESTIGATE MADISON PROTEST DOCTORS!

The UW Health System released this statement today saying the charges of fraud are very serious and in response, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health and University of Wisconsin Medical Foundation, the UW Health entities that employ the physicians, have immediately launched an investigation of the reported behavior.

The University of Wisconsin Health System will investigate the far left doctors who were handing out fake sick slips to protesters at the Madison union protests this weekend.
The Wisconsin State Journal reported, via Free Republic:

UW Health is investigating doctors who wrote medical notes last weekend excusing protesters at the Capitol from work, and the Wisconsin Medical Society has criticized their actions.

“These UW Health physicians were acting on their own and without the knowledge or approval of UW Health,” UW Health said in a statement. “These charges are very serious.”

The UW School of Medicine and Public Health and the UW Medical Foundation, the university’s doctor group, are investigating.

“The investigation will identify which UW Health physicians were involved and whether their behavior constituted violations of medical ethics or University of Wisconsin and UW Health policies and work rules,” the statement said.

“The investigation and any potential future action will follow the established procedures of the University of Wisconsin. Any future disciplinary action taken will be considered a personnel matter, and in accord with University of Wisconsin policies, will not be open to public discussion.”

The Wisconsin Medical Society, the state’s doctor group, said in a statement that it “does not condone these actions under any circumstances.”

“The physician-patient relationship is a cornerstone for providing high quality health care,” the medical society said. “Important elements of that relationship, such as conducting proper medical evaluations of patients, should not be taken lightly.”

This photo, taken from a Youtube video from a Fox 11 (Green Bay) news report, shows a purported doctor telling a television station that he is offering sick notes to teachers who are at the Capitol protesting. (The Wisconsin State Journal)

#1 February 21, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Jack commented:

Wanna bet they find nothing and if they do it will be whitewashed. You’re talking about the UW in Madison!
#2 February 21, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Contessa61 commented:

What dumb docs.

They must work until they are 65 or70 and support public employees who retire to the beach at 55 without paying a dime for their pensions.
#4 February 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Contessa61 commented:

UW Madison Healht system likes the teachers health plan. The hospitals and docs get good reimbursement from that plan.
#5 February 21, 2011 at 4:55 pm
M.E. commented:

Nothing will happen to those doctors, at least nothing more than a slap on the wrist. The medical community protects their own. In fact, there was a recent article in the Chicago Tribune that pointed out that the AMA will go so far as to protect a doctor even if he has been charged with sexually abusing a patient. The doctor never lost his license.
#6 February 21, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Buffalobob commented:

These first two paragraphs were posted on Ace of Apades.
Lou Sanner, 59, who practices family medicine at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. Sanner said he gave out hundreds of notes and that many protesters with whom he spoke seemed to be suffering from stress.
The doctors also got swamped by hostile phone calls and Facebook messages from across the U.S., he said.

“We’re not political activists. We were surprised at the nationwide organized vitriol that has come our way so quickly,” he said. “Apparently we hit a nerve. I’ve been a doctor for 30 years. I kind of missed when politics got this viral, this national.”

We’re not political activists! BS Doctor, apparently the people across this country have common sense and see just what a hypocrite you are, and how phony your sick slips are. Take responsibility for your irresponsible behavior and stop trying to CYA now that you have been exposed. You have met the blogosphere the no BS zone.
#7 February 21, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Dave-O commented:

Extend arm, receive light slap on wrist. Promise to go forth and sin no more. All is forgiven. And swept under the rug.
#8 February 21, 2011 at 4:58 pm
kansas commented:

Those doctors are going to find some strongly worded emails in their in boxes. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
#9 February 21, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Simsalabim commented:

I think those receiving the notes can plead their case with the defense of “Liberalism is a mental disorder”.
#10 February 21, 2011 at 5:14 pm
? s commented:

I still want to know who recruited the physicians?
Who printed and provided so many forms?
Was OFA behind this effort?
#11 February 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Big Boy commented:

This statement is false: “without the knowledge or approval of UW Health.” The Director of the Family Practice Residency Program was there (she’s a movie star now). She knows and whatever she, as a supervisory employee knows, is imputed to UW Health. So is her approval of (and participation in) the fraudulent actions. It’s basic agency law.

Gotcha!
#13 February 21, 2011 at 5:23 pm
SSNarwhal commented:

As a practicing MD for over 40 years in teaching institutions, I have been appalled at the so-called graduating doctors today. Their level of competence at such foundational things such as anatomy, physiology, pathology and even such basic things as physical examinations are such that is a real hardship on the people who have to teach them post graduate specialty training. They almost have to start from scratch. As the essentials of the medical curriculum are slowly being squeezed out by the new PC topics and left leaning politically motivated teachers are slowly taking over the educations systems of the nations, Its no great surprise that the WI docs are at least able capable of filling out a prescription pad. They are fools and we are fools for allowing it. They went to med school to help people. They were deceived. I want a doctor who knows how to do a PE, understands the pathophysiology of disease and how to choose correct treatment options not one whose expertise is filling out prescriptions for the very people who deceived them. No wonder lawyers prosper in this bountiful environment of poorly trained docs. U of W is like most med schools in this category of failure. I generalize, but it is a good generalization.
#14 February 21, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Oceanspray commented:

Teachers who claim they are too sick to be in the classroom but not too sick to be demonstrating at the state Capitol building are obviously not really sick, especially when they show up by the thousands. They are claiming to be sick so they can get paid for a day away from work that would otherwise be an unauthorized absence for which they could be docked. By collecting “sick pay” from the government of Wisconsin or their local school districts under false pretenses, they are committing FRAUD. Any doctor who — with a wink and a nod — colludes with these teachers to provide bogus “sick notes” without benefit of taking a medical history, examining the patient in an appropriate (private) setting and keeping records of the diagnosis and treatment is engaging in CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT FRAUD. Forget about ethics violations. These are CRIMES! Where’s the Wisconsin AG?
#15 February 21, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Dantes commented:

This isn’t enough. The State board of Medical Examiners should be called in to investigate. The U of W has the authority of an employer over an employee to investigate, but the state licences physicians and should be investigating this fraud. I would bet that if U of W is the only actor involved, the “doctors” will get off with a face saving slap on the wrist.
#16 February 21, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Conservative to the Core commented:

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn
#17 February 21, 2011 at 5:47 pm
a guy commented:

Could a class-action suit be filed against the docs on behalf of all the children and parents who lost educational time, had to stay home from work, hire kid-sitters etc?
#18 February 21, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Orion commented:

Any future disciplinary action taken will be considered a personnel matter, and in accord with University of Wisconsin policies, will not be open to public discussion.”

Hmm. In other words, we’ll give them congratulatory slaps on the back in private, now shut up plebes, and go back to funding us.

Think I’ll make sure I don’t visit Docs who are graduates of the UW system – I kinda like my physicians to have ethics.

Orion
#19 February 21, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Wm T Sherman commented:

They had to say something. Now, watch what they do, because that’s all that matters.
#20 February 21, 2011 at 5:58 pm
teapartydoc commented:

M.E. is right. The University is just covering it’s tracks for public consumption. Doctors acn and do get away with some pretty awful stuff. The real answer to this kind of thing is to take away the govt cover doctors have in govt licensing. This is a relic of the early progressive era and should be replaced with checks on training and competency provided by the schools where the physicians train by means of electronic transmissions. With the way things are now, a school can simply wash it’s hands every graduation day and the state takes over and does a terrible job of credentialing in a process taken over by the medical societies (ever heard of regulatory capture? public choice economics?). If the medical schools are responsible for their product as long as the product lives and works, there will be real accountability.
#21 February 21, 2011 at 5:59 pm
forest commented:

Is Dr. Sanner that especially obnoxious one pictured in the post?

I’d like to see that guy get what’s coming to him.
#22 February 21, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Person of Choler commented:

Let us know if anything substantive happens to the fake sick-note writers. I expect the incident will never be heard of again. “Personnel matter” is the tipoff. That’s weaselspeak for “CYA but whitewash.”
#23 February 21, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Marmo commented:

I’m sure the investigation will be as thorough as Penn State’s investigation of climate fraud Michael Mann. And how did that end up? Why, Mann was found to be as pure as the driven snow. How precious.
#25 February 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Peej commented:

At least in Maryland, disciplinary actions against physicians by the medical licensing board become matters of public record: http://www.mbp.state.md.us/forms/jan11sanctions.pdf

I don’t know if Wisconsin does the same, or if these physicians have even been reported to the board.

I certainly hope they are.
#26 February 21, 2011 at 6:17 pm
scituate_tgr commented:

Any bets that these same docs that wrote the fraudulent slips, turn around an bill the insurance company for an office visit?
#27 February 21, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Tom Scott commented:

Many of the medical staff providing work slips mentioned that the teachers were “stressed” because their livlihood was under attack. It would seem to me that proper medical advice would be to go home and rest. A “stressed” person should not be present at a potentially confrontational rally. It only exacerbates the stress.
#28 February 21, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Honey Badger commented:

“We will investigate ourselves, appropriate actions will be taken.”

Honey Badger is not impressed.
#29 February 21, 2011 at 6:21 pm
LibertyAtStake commented:

Yeah, sure, and Penn State “investigated” Michael Mann. We’ll see.

d(^_^)b
http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
“Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive”
#30 February 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm
mg4us commented:

The state AG should investigate. . .

First, if the docs were affiliated with the University or some other government run institution that pays their salary, then ultimately it is the taxpayer that pays and fraud is fraud. . .

Twi, even if these docs were in private practice, if they file unauthorized medical claims and exams, then fraud is created and calls into question ALL their examinations and billing practices for ALL insurance and payments

Third, assisting in the state worker (teacher or other) to commit fraud against taxpayer makes them co-conspirators of the workers fraudulent claim to receive compensation for a day they were out of work.

I am not a legal eagle, but I am sure other laws were broken which UNDERMINES all legality of average law abiding citizens. .

If the AG does not prosecute to the full extent of the law, then he is supporting and endorsing such illegal behavior and anarchy.

So Gov. Walker, get the AG on this immediately!!!
#31 February 21, 2011 at 6:32 pm
bjh commented:

Average teacher salary in Wisconsin was $52,644 in 2009-10 ( this from a Come teach in Wisconson website). Let’s be generous and say that’s for 10 months of work, b/c teachers do work additional days that kids aren’t in school, and 7-hour instructional days quickly become 8 or 9 hour days b/c of responsibilities outside the classroom. That makes an annualized salary of almost $63,000 a year. Average per capita income in WI for the same year was $37K, so for 10 months of work a teacher already makes more than $15K higher than the average worker salary for an entire year. Annualize it and it’s nearer to double. AND they want everything else for free? Seriously? How divorced from reality ARE these people? No one is suggesting teachers ought to be poor, but it seems like from their priviledged financial perch ( because that’s what it is, eye-rolls notwithstanding) well above the average Wisconsin resident, they ought to be able to cough up for their own damn health insurance, or even ( gasp!) their retirement. You know, like EVERYBODY else!
#32 February 21, 2011 at 6:36 pm
ClaudiaR commented:

The Gov’t should file RICO charges against the doctors, missing democrats and teachers for collusion, attempting to defraud. The Federal Gov’t should arrest them all, then fire the teachers, impeach the senators and take away the doctor’s licenses. These people are all criminals. Nice job, teaching the students to lie and cheat!!!
#33 February 21, 2011 at 6:37 pm
John commented:

This is just political and legal cover. It’ll be a whitewash.
#34 February 21, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Milwaukee commented:

School boards need to collect the doctors names from the teachers, and report them to central place. Then, should any of those doctors ever testify for a patient, evidence of the doctors fraudulent behavior needs to be trotted out. How would a jury like to listen to this:
Dr. you examined Joe, and said his illnesses where this? You also examined some patients in February of 2011, and signed illness slips. Was the exam you gave Joe more thorough than the ones you signed that day? Dr., you signed slips in February because you thought those teachers needed a break. Do you really think Joe is ill, or that he needs a break? Those doctors should be ineligible for collecting from insurance for services rendered for any patient.
#35 February 21, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Milwaukee commented:

Sorry, “illnesses were”, not “illnesses where”.
#37 February 21, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Barbara commented:

doctor patient relationship is what they are worried about when everyone involved are employees of the tax-payers of the State of Wisconsin. How about committing fraud on the tax-payers? I think the State should fire the entire lot of them–just can them; everybody who doesn’t show up to work tomorrow ought be either in the ICU or dead to avoid termination!
#38 February 21, 2011 at 7:12 pm
squeaky commented:

the obamas
http://www.flickr.com/photos/highnoon1/5453365596/
#39 February 21, 2011 at 7:35 pm
chuck in st paul commented:

Whitewash coming in 5… 4… 3…

“Nothing to see here folks. Move along now. It was all a misunderstanding.”
#40 February 21, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Conservative Ken commented:

There won’t be an Investigation. This is just Political BS that they hope will make it go away.
#41 February 21, 2011 at 7:44 pm
Sandy commented:

Like the rest of you I believe there will be nothing but a slap on the wrist for these teachers. They are laughing and scratching because they know Obama stands with them so what can happen. What is happening however, is that people are getting sick and tired of being sick and tired. Too many games and too few jobs …. are taking their toll on the American People and their belief that this President could change anything for the better.
#42 February 21, 2011 at 7:45 pm
tommy mc donnell commented:

they are probably part of doctors for obamacare.
#43 February 21, 2011 at 7:46 pm
geokstr commented:

ME:
The medical community protects their own.

Perhaps that might have been true before the AMA joined their brethren on the APS as denizens of the left. Then they would have protected any doctor.

Imagine if this had been a Tea Party protest, and conservative doctors were passing out these fake medical excuses to the partiers, the MSM would be trumpeting these “crimes” from the rooftops, the UW doctors would have already been suspended, and the email about potential sanctions for their activities would have been much more harsh.

(Suspension of disbelief alert: Since Tea Partiers are too damned honest to do something like this, I understand it’s a stretch to have even try to imagine the above.)

But now the AMA is not just protecting other doctors, they are protecting their ideological comrades.
#44 February 21, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Granny commented:

I don’t know about you, but the last time I got a doctor’s note – or anyone I know got a doctor’s note – I had to pony up up the cost of an office visit to get one. If these doctor’s are employed by some third party, then they just bilked their employer of thousands of dollars.

/How much you want to bet they’ll be writing this off as ” volunteer medical care”?
#45 February 21, 2011 at 7:54 pm
archtop commented:

You know, I have to agree with those who say nothing will come of this – it will get swept under the rug like so many other similar incidents from progressives.

In fact, all that’s left is to make a Hollywood movie with the brave doctors as the heros! I can see the movie trailer now…

—

From Michael Moore productions – Charlie Sheen stars as…

“Doc. U – Union Protest Doctor!”

[Cut to a scene in front of the Wisconsin capitol building...Doc. U comes riding up on his motorcycle]

Doc U.: Great Scott! Citizen – what is happening here??

Bystander: Oh Doc it’s terrible! The mean governor want to take away my healthcare and my collective bargaining rights, and I misspelled “Hitler” on my protest sign…I’m about to cry!!!

Doc U.: Hold on there! You look like your suffering from PUDD – Protesting Union-member Distress Disorder [fumbles for a pen and paper] Here, citizen – a Doctor’s Note for you!

Bystander: Oh Thank you Doc! You’re my hero!!

Doc U.: Good Lord! There’s a child over there in distress!!

[Doc U. runs to the student]

Doc U.: Child – what ever is the matter??

Kid: Uhhh….I lost my cigarettes…got any?? Hey, they canceled school today…pretty cool.

Doc U.: But shouldn’t you be in class?!

Kid: Uhhhh…actually I gotta go protest some more…see ya…

Doc U.: Wait…don’t you need a Doctor’s Note?? OMG! Another citizen in distress…

[Runs to woman...]

Doc U.: Miss! I see your “Sarah Palin Did It!” sign has a broken handle. Here let me fix it for you…

[Rips off shirt and mends the broken sign]

Woman: Oh Doc U. – How ever can I thank you??

Doc U.: No need to thank me…my work is not complete until every protester has a DOCTOR’S NOTE FROM ME!!! THIS IS NOT THE END, GOVERNOR WALKER!!!

[End movie trailer]
#46 February 21, 2011 at 8:04 pm
cbinflux commented:

It’s quite doubtful that the handslaps will leave any redness or bruising. The whole campus is Socialist/Liberal.
#47 February 21, 2011 at 8:41 pm
DemocratPuss commented:

Just a preview of what all doctors will look like under Obama Care

roflmao
#48 February 21, 2011 at 8:54 pm
RS commented:

Oh yeah, holding my breath on this one.

Not.
#49 February 21, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Joe College commented:

Nice work, a$$holes. You’ve just given your career to further the malicious ambitions of Barack Hussein Obama II, who could not possibly care less about you.
#50 February 21, 2011 at 9:30 pm
listingstarboard commented:

Medicare regulations state giving a free service to a patient that you have billed for for another patient warrants a stiff fine. If any of the Doctors have provided sick notes and charged for a visit they are committing Medicare fraud. Also the AMA represents only about 16% of Doctors, mostly those associated with “academia”, the AMA ‘s sole priority is to protect its lucrative monopoly on Insurance Billing Codes that Doctors are forced to use in order to get paid. They could give a rats a$$ about doctors.
#51 February 21, 2011 at 9:35 pm
TMLutas commented:

There isn’t likely going to be a coverup because this is driven by UW’s medical malpractice insurer. Their premiums are going to be higher because they’re willy nilly taking on liability without adequate documentation. That’s no joke in today’s environment. If one of those note holders ends up dying of cancer that wasn’t caught in time, you can be sure that UW will be sued and that they will lose.
#52 February 21, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Milwaukee commented:

The UW people might slap their wrists, but they will need malpractice insurance. Hello stockholders! These doctors are willing to defraud the public in public. Do you think you can trust them? Hello insurance companies! What makes you think you can trust these doctors not to scam you?
#53 February 21, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Contessa61 commented:

Listingstar,

You are correct. The AMA represents such a small percentage of Docs. They only care about the money they get from coding.
#54 February 21, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Dr. Anonymous. commented:

As a practicing physician, I find lots of the babble in these comments to be entertaining, though mostly wrong.

>>If one of those note holders ends up dying of cancer that wasn’t caught in time, you can be sure that UW will be sued and that they will lose.

Unlikely to the point of impossible. Writing a note exempting someone from work, doesn’t imply that you’ve screened them for cancer, nor should it.

>>Medicare regulations state giving a free service to a patient that you have billed for for another patient warrants a stiff fine. If any of the Doctors have provided sick notes and charged for a visit they are committing Medicare fraud.

Absolutely true, and I’d wager any amount of money that NONE of the doctors involved in this sorry episode have billed anyone one red cent for their “services” in writing the phony excuse notes. Non-starter. . .

>>But now the AMA is not just protecting other doctors, they are protecting their ideological comrades.

AMA is a professional lobby group for physicians and it has nothing whatever to do with what happened in WI this week.

>>there was a recent article in the Chicago Tribune that pointed out that the AMA will go so far as to protect a doctor even if he has been charged with sexually abusing a patient. The doctor never lost his license.

Did he retain his license after CONVICTION for sexual abuse of a patient? Believe it or not false allegations of physician sexual abuse by patients do happen, and bearing that in mind, I think the “innocent until proven guilty” standard still applies before permanently depriving someone of their livelihood.

>>Any doctor who — with a wink and a nod — colludes with these teachers to provide bogus “sick notes” without benefit of taking a medical history, examining the patient in an appropriate (private) setting and keeping records of the diagnosis and treatment is engaging in CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT FRAUD. Forget about ethics violations.

Its only “fraud” in the conventional medical sense if someone submits a false bill. Again, you can rest assured that none of these physicians have billed anyone for the phony notes they wrote.

What ALL of these doctors are guilty of is gross breach of medical ethics (not fraud, and not malpractice).

What “should” happen is that any resident physicians should be sanctioned by the residency program. In practice, this would probably amount to nothing more than slap on the wrist.

The residency program director who was involved in this should lose her job as residency program director. . .instantly. She’s supposed to be instilling a sense of ethical responsibility in the residents, not serving as a bad example of the worst possible kind, and there is zero excuse or justification for this. Either she knows that writing fake medical notes for people is wrong (and she should be fired over it) or she doesn’t know (in which case she wasn’t qualified to hold the job to begin with). .

She and any other academic attending physician who was involved in this should probably lose their jobs.

Her *and* all the non-resident physicians involved in this should be called to the carpet by the WI state board of medical examiners. It wouldn’t be out of the question for them to lose their medical licenses over this, or have them suspended, though in practice, I strongly doubt this will happen.

Its *possible* that this sort of behavior could result in revocation of the various physicians board certifications, depending on the standards of the various medical boards. Again, I wouldn’t expect this to happen either.
#56 February 21, 2011 at 11:23 pm
Rose commented:

Oh-ho-ho! They didn’t count on THAT!, did they, those Dirty Scummy Conspiring “doctors”, did they!

hmmm-hmmm-hmmm Barack Insane Hu-mama!!!
#58 February 21, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Person of Choler commented:

I would like to ask Dr. Anonymous: Is it true that nothing can or should prevent MDs from signing bogus documents supporting dubious claims of illness?
#59 February 22, 2011 at 12:01 am
Badgerdoc commented:

It was poor judgment, but will not result in any fraud claims. There was no money involved. The UW will probably reprimand them. The Medical Examining Board might also. However, the “relationship” between the docs and the people who received the notes is protected and confidential. I suspect very few teachers or other public employees will use these notes now that this is so public. If I had written a note for someone and their employer (say HR from a school district) called me to inquire as to the nature of the individual’s illness, I would not be able to comment on it because of confidentiality. The employer does not have the right to know the nature of the illness. i see folks in the ER, and write “no work today” quite frequently for colds, back pain, etc. I think a lot of us feel like it’s not a big deal. Ordinarily teachers have quite a few sick days, and they don’t need doctors notes to “prove” their illness. In this case, because of the known protest, the school district was demanding notes. Most teachers were just planning on going without pay for the days they were “off”. Sorry for rambling, but I do kind of know about this stuff! Cheers!
#60 February 22, 2011 at 12:02 am
Border State "Patient" commented:

Here in Arizona it is not uncommon to visit Mexico to fill prescriptions. The “doctors” there do what they call “make business” in broken english when they write prescriptions for an amount of cash (without any discernable “examination”). Then they direct the “patient” to the pharmacia to get the script filled.

I thought the Mexican deal was really dishonest. Maybe it’s not any longer. Maybe the USA “doctors” will similarly be making business. Hmmmm. I wonder if any money changed hands in Wisconsin…
#61 February 22, 2011 at 1:07 am
donabernathy commented:

whenever 2 or more people conspire to commit a crime….. that crime is elevated to a conspiracy…….. I’ll be wait’n 4 Eric Holder to bring RICO charges against the doctors and teachers and whoever is involved…….. But I won’t be hold’n my breath……

roflmao
#62 February 22, 2011 at 1:20 am
Registered Nurse from Michigan commented:

These are very serious charges. The state boards do not have a sinse of humor and will come down on those doctors, just as you and me are innocent until proven guilty, so are they. I’ve seen the videos, very damning.

If it’s a first offence they might get off with a lesser penalty, such as a limited license or supervision for a period of time, but I seen revocation of license for less.

The school I know little about, but I’m sure the doctors will lose their jobs if they lose their license. The school also has gotten a huge slap in the face, if they don’t do anything, they will lose even more donors than this incident has caused.

I have been a medical professional for over 25 years and I am appalled and disgusted. My guess is that the state board will feel the same.
#64 February 22, 2011 at 5:32 am
Mere Citizen commented:

I too am a Registered Nurse from Michigan. I have been a nurse for just short of 20 years, and all I can say about the above commentator is are you serious?

I have seen and experienced more times than I can count physicians who refuse to follow common and accepted procedures, who refuse to follow written policy, who can’t even manage to sign telephone orders in the mandated time frame, not to mention the most clueless will kill you without an RN intervening resident, and guess what happens to them? Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

As Dr. anon states above, likely a little slap on the wrist and nothing more. The residency program director MAY end up losing her job, but I would most certainly not hold my breath for that either. I work in a teaching hospital and some residents are truly frightening in their lack of skills. I would concur wholeheartedly with the physician using the nick SS Narwhal. I can’t speak about the experiences the above RN has had, but they are assuredly not the same as mine.

I will also note that it is my experience that a great many nurses coming out of nursing school do not have the necessary skills anymore than a great many residents. The vaulted Bachelors degree is seemingly way more important than the need to actually learn required and necessary tasks that nurses provide. The focus is on the art and theory of nursing and while these kids come out of school knowing all about the social needs of the patient they can’t start IVs, put in foley caths or think critically about what is happening to a patient who is not following the cook book pathway of disease.

And to RN from MI above, nurses have a state board, physicians have a medical board. And tell us all about revocation of license for being a political dumbass. In my 20 years I have seen one physician lose a license and he was giving drugs to patients in exchange for sex, his license was suspended after conviction. A year later while in the appeals process(the judge admitted technical error in how evidence was presented, in essence one officer handled evidence inappropriately, he later lost his job after 18 years as an officer) the case ended up being dropped because the prosecutor decided to not seek another trial since some victims were unwilling to testify again. A year in jail and loss of license is what Terence Whiteman received. He was convicted in May 2008, his license was suspended in Dec. 2008. The next stories in the paper were regarding whether he might be able to get his license back. I am unaware that this occurred, however it is very possible or even likely that he simply went to another state and went on to continue a career in medicine? I would say absolutely. Do you think the police officer got a second chance at his career field?

Nothing is going to happen these pinhead physicians, residents or otherwise. And I am quite sure that the person identifying themselves as an RN in Michigan is not an RN. Perhaps works in some capacity within health care, but I can’t envision someone who doesn’t know the difference between a state board and a medical board as an RN.
#65 February 22, 2011 at 5:50 am
Estragon commented:

Not to suggest that anything will actually come of it, but there is most certainly fraud involved. Public school teachers in Wisconsin average over $250 per day, not including benefits. A fake excuse enables them to be paid in full for missing work. It doesn’t take too many such phony notes to add up to felony fraud against the state.

It may not be prosecuted as such, but it surely could be.
#67 February 22, 2011 at 9:23 am
Dr. Anonymous commented:

Responding to some of the above:

There is a big difference between lack of medical skill (which may be exhibited by resident MDs or others) and outright unethical behavior. The former is to be expected of newly minted physicians just out of medical school. The latter is really unexcusable under any circumstances.

There is no parity whatever between not signing an order in a chart and writing lies into a chart, and frankly I don’t understand why this is even being brought up. The medical skill of the physicians involved in this incident (good, bad, or otherwise) is utterly irrelevant.

Now, in fact, while they “could” lose their jobs for this, and in fact I do know of cases where medical residents actually HAVE lost their jobs over putting misinformation in patient medical charts, in reality I don’t expect anything to happen to the resident physicians involved in this other than a stern dressing down behind closed doors (ie the proverbial “slap on the wrist”).

Its partly because it happened outside the hospital/medical university, it involved residents (who might plead youth and ignorance. . .however dubious that claim) and partly because apart from professional embarrassment, there was negligible potential for actual medical harm here.

Sill, given the massive ethical breach and embarrassment to her dept and profession, the residency program director SHOULD lose her job over this, and frankly I don’t even think that’s debatable. Whether or not it ACTUALLY happens is going to depend on the spine of that Dept Chairman, as well as practical concerns within that dept (was else is this individual MD bringing to the table? Is she easily replaceable? etc). It may not happen.

Even though on paper its possible, in reality, I would NOT expect ANYONE to lose their State medical licenses over this. . .its just not a serious enough infraction. The things that usually cause suspension of a medical license include sexual misconduct involving patients, substance abuse (including writing bad scripts or providing drugs for “street” trade), or non-medical felony conviction. Repeated malpractice can also do it. But its hard to argue how any patients were hurt with phony notes excusing them from work for a day, or how these physicians pose a threat to patients. If the medical board here does anything at all, it will most likely just be a warning.

One thing the medical board could do is suspend the offending physicians medical licenses for one day each. That wouldn’t really hurt them as far as their ongoing practices and it wouldn’t end their careers, but it would become part of their permanent professional records. Then every time these physicians applied for a medical job, medical license or renewal, malpractice insurance or board certification (or recertification) they’d have to meticulously document the circumstances regarding this suspension, and it would be a permanent “scarlet letter” for them. While this might be an apt punishment, its NEVER going to actually happen.

I don’t know what universe “RN from Michigan” lives in, but I’ve never heard of any MD having their State medical license suspended or revoked for “less” than this, and I’d love to hear the details of these alleged revocations.

>>Person of Choler commented:
>>I would like to ask Dr. Anonymous: Is it true that nothing can or should prevent MDs
>>from signing bogus documents supporting dubious claims of illness?

That’s an interesting formulation of the question.

First of all, nothing “can” prevent anyone from doing anything, other than physical restraint or maybe their own consciences! If doctors want to lie, cheat, steal, etc, its pretty hard to restrain them in advance from doing so, the same as anybody else.

But ethical considerations “should” prevent MDs from lying about patients for what amounts to pure political reasons. Its against every ethical standard in medicine for physicians to create false medical records, which is effectively what happened here. Every MD knows this or should know it.

Under ordinary circumstances, physicians who see patients are billing for their services. Under those conditions lying on the medical record could amount to fraud, potentially resulting in criminal sanctions (including permanent revocation of the physicians medical license), revocation of the clinician’s ability to participate in Medicare reimbursement, and even triple damages under civil law.

So these are pretty strong disincentives to do it!

Other forces that might make physicians think twice about this sort of thing include censure from their peers (including their local medical board, or those of their specialty) and the light of public scrutiny.

Physicians who are not self-employed (which I think would include all of these UW physicians) could lose their jobs over ethical breaches like this. Again, whether or not it actually happens is another matter, but that *should* be a disincentive.

Lastly, *just* saying someone is sick enough to miss a day of work/school is pretty darn vague. What’s the standard for that? I’d argue that there really isn’t one, and lots of physicians will write notes excusing people from work for a day with little “real” cause. Its sort of a white lie, *BUT* that at least happens within the context of a real medical visit with a documented medical exam, not just a signed note effectively handed to a complete stranger.
#68 February 22, 2011 at 9:43 am
Dr. Anonymous commented:

>>Mere Citizen: I am unaware that this occurred, however it is very possible or even
>>likely that he simply went to another state and went on to continue a career in medicine?

This disgraced physician could retain a career “in medicine” so long as he didn’t actually practice it on patients. For example, he could become a hospital administrator, practice manager, pharmaceutical company representative, or something like that.

There was a time when a physician who lost their medical license in one State could relocate to another one and resume practice, but its been a LONG time since that’s been true (ie at least 20 years).

Now there are central repositories of data listing all physicians including all States in which they’ve ever held a license, places they’ve been employed, location of training etc. In today’s electronic era, its simply impossible for physicians to escape their pasts anymore.

Application for any State medical license now requires a criminal background check (which you’d HOPE would turn up a felony conviction for a sexual offense, even if later overturned!). Some states (and I know as a fact they include NC and CA) even require fingerprinting of applicants for a medical license.

Every State medical board requires medical license applicants to disclose their ENTIRE professional histories when applying, including where they’ve trained, every medical job/practice, they’ve ever had, and every state they’ve ever held a license in. The medical board then confirms this information, including contacting the other state boards specifically enquiring about past license suspensions, revocations, etc.

In short, even if an applicant for a medical license were to lie on their application about prior criminal conviction or license revocation, they’d almost certainly get caught.

Since sexual abuse of patients and participation in street drug trade are two of the “unforgivable” sins that medical boards remove licenses for, its highly unlikely that this guy would ever be able to LEGALLY practice medicine again, even after many years have elapsed.

He could practice ILLEGALLY without a license, though in that case, he’d have to operate on a purely cash-and-carry basis (since no insurance carrier would reimburse him, including gov’t run ones), and he’d have to operate without malpractice insurance.
#69 February 22, 2011 at 10:37 am
L.E. Liesner commented:

Isn’t this like having the fox investigate the shenanigans going on at the chicken coop? One day the liberals are going to run out of white wash.
#70 February 22, 2011 at 11:57 am
Jonathan commented:

“Any future disciplinary action taken will be considered a personnel matter, and in accord with University of Wisconsin policies, will not be open to public discussion.”

No, actually you will opt not to participate in the public discussion. Thank God the MSM information embargo was broken.
#71 February 22, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Mere Citizen commented:

Dr. Anon I bring up those issues because it is my experience, quite routine in fact, that docs that do not bother to follow even the most mundane requirements, such as signing an order when required, do not have any consequences. If there were then the behavior would stop, and it does not. Signing an order in the appropriate time frame may be shoulder shrugging in the overall scheme of things, but the physician who is sloppy in common things is also frequently sloppy in the more important things.

The physician who is screaming for a patient to go to the cath lab right now (heart cath for laymen) and don’t give a damn that required labs have not been drawn or have been drawn but not back yet is the same guy that doesn’t give a damn whether his charts have been signed appropriately or not. And for the benefit of those outside of the health care system, it IS important to get those labs so we can see what the sodium and potassium for heart function, not to mention labs regarding kidney function so the dye a person gets does not kill off the kidneys.

It is a matter that for scores, not all or a majority, but too many physicians feel that they are not required to follow appropriate procedures that are for patient safety, policies that have to do with reimbursement not to mention those that have no great idea of ethics. Its too often not to the best physician for your case another doc refers, but to the same other doc because of a mutual financial benefit. I refer to you and your refer to me. Given the situation as it stands, why would any of these physicians including residents, believe that they would be scolded to any measurable degree for doing what is inappropriate?

Understand? It is perfectly acceptable for a physician to behave in public in ways that would ensure a job loss for anyone else behaving in the same manner. The point is that more than a few physicians routinely behave badly, put patient care at risk by their behavior and the fact is they are not held accountable to any real degree for that behavior.

Why should I believe this incident will be handled any differently? I don’t.
#73 February 22, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Ken commented:

God bless you Mere citizen….Let’s get rid of all those bunghole doctors and let the RN’s run everything….oh I forgot…..you don’t want the responsibility.

Get another job you hard hearted bitch…have you had you MI or cancer yet? ’cause if not you’re sure working on it.

It is very unhealthful to be stressed in an environment in which you have no control.

Leave the field you are crispy critter burned out. You’ve wiped enough butts.

And all you doctors remember as a nurse once pointed out to me long ago spouting nursing school propaganda, …..”we [the nurses] are the ONE’s who care”

What an insult.

Do nurses get calls when not at work at 2AM….stop complaining. You we’re smart enough to get an RN all you needed to do was bust your ass another 7-10 years and you could be a doctor but you didn’t so STFU!

Personally I LOVE most nurses especially hot one’s.

You on the other hand are the stereotypical sad sack. I hope you find happiness elsewhere. Thank you for your selfless years of service
#74 February 22, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Ken commented:

The liberal operates, as Whoopi said to O’Reilly, by emotion.

Sister Theresa hijacks a plane and kills the crew because it’s got pain killers for the dying in Calcutta.

The end justifies the means, one of the the liberal mantras Socialistas! Communistas! Zapatistas! Assholistas!etc etc.

I’m sure they felt like knights on white horses leading the crusade.

God bless Los Don Quixotes.

Problem is they are licensed professionals and accepted that role with understanding that THE PEOPLE of the State, and their duly elected officials, and their appointed board members and LAWS will govern their behavior.

These well meaning saps have gone far a field and will be slammed for it and rightfully so.

If not then there is no oversight and the Medical Boards need to close as they are not serving the public good.
#75 February 23, 2011 at 3:00 am
Mere Citizen commented:

Whats the matter Kenny boy, hit a little too close to home for you? You one of those docs who hang up on the nurse at 2a or are you the one that simply doesn’t bother to call back while the RNs are busy handling the situation, cause who actually gives a sh*t about the patient especially when it’s 2a. Yea, I’m the burned out one you misogynist piece of crap.

I’ve worked with good, bad and well, Kenny boy or at least his ideological twin. Is it any wonder that one of the things driving the nursing shortage was ill behaved physicians? I know we’re all supposed to pretend physicians never behave like the neanderthal above, but that would be lying. And it would be lying to say that those who behave this way are ever held accountable for it.

See Kenny, I just dislike those who do not believe they have a responsibility for their behavior. It impacts patient care immensely, there are lots of timid nurses who won’t call a physician who is well known for being a jerk and because they won’t make that call or talk the physician who will belittle them, the patient suffers. And hospital administrators too often don’t give a damn, especially if its a doc bringing the patients.

So Kenny dear, sit and spin, you’ve shown your colors and what you actually care about. And it ain’t patient care.
#78 February 24, 2011 at 9:24 am
Ken commented:

If these Docs were not working FOR the UNiversity that they are employed under at the time of the note signing frenzy, then they are NOT covered by malpractice and you can’t practice usually without malpractice

Also, If they want to have these encounters consider valid physician patient relationships and visits Then doing it on TV as many were, where you can hear the conversation is a HIPPA violation.

And providinig a note for somatic complaints without an exam is bad medicine, one lady said her legs were going numb etc. If they are that stressed out are they suicidal?? homicidal?? no basic psych questions addressed.

So if they want to have these encounters legitimized then all of the above is an issue.

If they were bogus notes then that’s an ethical and legal issue,

SO either way they are pretty much screwed I would think.

You’ll end up with a lot more of these type of docs if we get socialized medicine.

The end justifies the means.

You don’t need that kidney. Pull the plug, we need to give it to that guy over their.

It’s all emotional, there’s no looking at the total picture, the facts, the impact on other’s.

As Whoopi Goldberg admitted to Bill O’Reilly, decisions are based on emotion not facts.
#79 February 24, 2011 at 9:39 am
Ken commented:

To Mere citizen….you are a miserable collection of protoplasm as I suspected thank you for that validation, I could always have been wrong, and I thank God that unless I am on a hijacked plane that crashes near you, and I survive there is no way you will ever have anything to do with my care or . And docs do answer calls from pinheads like you asking for tylenol orders at 2am.

Sorry to learn that your abrasive, pushy, know it all, caustic personality caused so many to treat you like crap, ( talk about lack of accountability), you never heard you catch more flies with honey.

Oh that’s right you never make a mistake, you never have a bad day, you have infinite patience, you have perfect judgement, you returns calls instantly etc etc etc.

Well you are not perfect therefore you must be delusional.

Have you had bipolar ruled out? or at least a borderline personality disorder of some form fruste?

There are good meds now with a lot less EPS.

You should look into it. It may keep you from blowing you brains out. ooops did I say that. Sorry you got into the wrong profession what a waste!

Leave the doctoring to the doctors, they don’t need your kind, they’re up to their ears in frivilous litigation. The last thing they need is you ugly old miserable puss second guessing their every move.

Do them all a favor and RUN!!! as far and as fast as you can.