BREAKING: DREAM ACT FAILS TO ADVANCE IN SENATE
Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, December 18, 2010, 10:46 AM
The DREAM Act Amnesty Bill failed to advance in the US Senate this morning.
The Politico reported:
The weeks of rallies, hunger strikes and sit-ins and the thousands of phone calls placed to Senate offices didn’t pay off for immigration activists.
The decade-old DREAM Act once again failed to break a filibuster in the Senate on Saturday morning, effectively killing the bill this year and shutting the door on what perhaps was the last chance for pro-immigration reform legislation until at least the 2012 election.
Senate Democrats came up five votes short of the 60 needed to advance the House-passed bill, which would provide a path to citizenship for up to illegal immigrants brought to the country as children if they attend college or join the military for two years. The vote was a mostly party-line 55-41 vote, though a handful of Democrats — perhaps fearful of their 2012 election outlook — also voted against the DREAM Act.
UPDATE: Democrats on CSPAN promise to ram through their DREAM Act amnesty bill in the near future.
They’re whining and playing the immigrant card. What thugs.
UPDATE: Roll Call here.
Republican Senators Lugar (IN), Bennet (UT) and Murkowski (AL) supported democrats on the legislation.
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Published May 16, 2012 at 7:37 pm - 46 Comments
Missy8s commented:
One down two to go.
Missy8s commented:
DADT repeal just passed.
Our military has just been turned Euro-peon.
BuddyG commented:
MERRY Christmas
ar05075 commented:
What wonderful news.
Andrew commented:
Claire voted Yes on Dream Act, and I’m guessing yes to weakening the Military. Cash out Claire in 2012!
cal rifkin commented:
Break out the champaign! They’ll be back…don’t ya just love that name ” dream act “? – it could have so many alternate meanings.
bg commented:
++
clap, clap, clap..
==
finncrisp commented:
Two Christmas presents! Claire is still in Obama’s conga line and not afraid to show it. This means she will go down in 2012! Let us get out there and make sure the word gets out.
Secondly, the Dream act is DEAD! We can’t be happier. Merry Christmas…
donh commented:
Overall I think Republicans have saved their party and this country by doing a fairly goog job blocking this outrageous criminal lame duck session. Some kind of DADT policy can always be reinstated in the future, and its not like gays aren’t already heavily enrolled in armed services. Its a token gesture to trade that passage for pulling the omnibus and dream act.
money gets votes commented:
#4 I agree! Get rid of her–traitor!!I am so so sic of these illegals! We should demand they shut down immigration! NOW. NO More immigrants!Until we get accountability on the ones who are here NOW!!!! No more freebies! No more anchor babies clogging up our ER rooms, $3K for each kid….taking our retirees jobs, our summer youth jobs..jobs FOR AMERICANS FIRST!! Our soldiers…!!!! Jobs for Americans!! GO home ALL disloyalty’s go BACK to your hot deserts…poverty stricken lands until YOU learn to respect AMERICA! And I don’t care if you don’t like XMAS!! We are Christian Nation FIRST and always will be!!! Merry Xmas!! I support Australians Laws (Aussies first) Canadians first and Americans first for JOBS!!!!!!!!
YES WE CON! YES WE CON! commented:
U$A: THIRD WORLD RISING – http://www.BorderInvasionPics.com
Mad Hatter commented:
Scott Brown, Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, Mark Kirk, Lisa Murkowski voted to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
This will open up Pandora’s Box on our Military.
Sensitivity Training will probably be part of boot camp.
“Saying something that’s offensive to someone’s lifestyle will become “unbecoming of an Officer” and might make its way into the Military Code of Conduct.
If one of our soldiers says the word fag, and a gay boy is “offended” they call for either a Court Martial, or have him sent to the Brig.
Somewhere down the road, this will open to the door for Transvestites to serve, and they’ll demand separate living quarters.
Scott Brown and Olympia Snowe are up for reelection in 2012.
Susan Collins co-sponsored this Pandora’s Box, she’s up for reelection in 2014.
We’re stuck with Murkowski and Mark Kirk, I mean Mark Jerk until 2016.
HANOI JOHN KERRY commented:
We will continue our tireless work FOR THE CHILDREN.
And try to STOP THE HATE at http://www.AmericanPatrol.com
Jim commented:
Merry Christmas!!!!
donh commented:
Feliz Navidad !… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtuVP8Mj4o
Mad Hatter commented:
Thank God the so called Dream Act fell on it’s face. But…….. wait for it…..
This afternoon when Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) was asked by Fox News’ Bret Baier if the DREAM Act was going to pass in tomorrow’s special session he said; “It will be defeated in the senate and should be dealt with next year.”
http://www.examiner.com/county-political-buzz-in-san-diego/dream-act-has-a-date-with-destiny-saturday
“and should be dealt with next year”. Just wonderful…
You can see our work is not over with yet.
Oh yeah, and Mitch McConnell is up for reelection in 2014.
RedBeard commented:
Wonderful news. The Nightmare Act is dead.
Well, for now. Never, ever, abandon vigilance.
money gets votes commented:
Shut down INS! NOW!Shut them down!!!!!! Save the budget millions! Also TAX all the American dollars being sent back home being earned here and WIRED back to their native countries TAX free!!!!! Over $280B!!! Stop banks from wiring $$$$ out of America! TAX FREE money from ALL illegals!!!!!! oh…Merry Christmas!!! I’m sic of Obama taking the word GOD reference out of everything–??? This is our history not Kenya! or Indonesia!
greenfairie commented:
Yes!
Oldsailor commented:
Repeal of DADT could be a big deal but I doubt it. Am I for repeal? No. However, most people making a big deal out of it are older. This generation has been desensitized to the lifestyle by constant in your face moments in movies and TV. When I was in (82-87) we had our share of gay people. There were whispers but doing the job always trumped lifestyle choices. My neighbor is a scout sniper and his unit has a Corpseman that is gay. They nicknamed him precious after the dog in Silence of the Lambs. They love him just as much as the Serial Killer in the movie loved his dog. It’s not about who he is but what he does. Israel has had openly gay soldiers. They are some of the finest soldiers in the world. This is not a big deal.
Z commented:
We will continue our tireless work FOR THE CHILDREN.
And try to STOP THE HATE at http://w#w.AmericanPatrol
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your website states NO DREAM ACT UNTIL THE FENCE IS BUILT. That’s utter BS. NO DREAM ACT EVER! You should be banned.
kate commented:
Wonderful news.
Wish the Democrats would work as hard to secure our borders. Just how many Americans have to die before they care? What will it take to force them to protect our country like every other country in the world does? When did it become wrong to protect Americans first? It’s so insane.
Oldsailor commented:
OOOPS, wrong thread., Anyway thank God the dream act failed. Now let’s secure the border.
kate commented:
#13, how about some tireless work protecting American citizens? How about stopping the murders of innocent Americans? How about securing our borders? What will it take for you and your ilk to give a rat’s ass about Americans?
m commented:
It is good news.
RedBeard commented:
Dear Senator McConnell:
I presume that when you talk of dealing with the Nightmare Act later, you mean eliminating it entirely. Surely that has to be your position, as a man who took an oath of office and meant it. Right?.
Oh, and I’m also sure you will stop talking of the illegal immigration problem as being “thorny” and start following through on the black-and-white issues of legal vs. illegal. Illegal, of course, being a bad thing, while legal is a good thing. You know, as do the rest of us, that there is a clear, wide, black line between the two things, not a gray area.
Merry Christmas.
bigkahuna commented:
I have DReam.. ACT on our current laws and deport illegals and their offspring and free up 6 million jobs for American citizens. Put the military in full force along the border and fine any employer who hires illegals $5000 per illegal. Pay half to anyone who turns them in and use the other half to deport the offenders. It would clean up immigration in about 6 weeks.
Then infiltrate the drug trade and put chemicals in the drugs that make your face turn blue and then arrest all smurfs. just kidding but we need to fight the drug war in a much tougher fashion to help curb the violence on the border and in our streets.
wanumba commented:
“though a handful of Democrats — perhaps fearful of their 2012 election outlook — also voted against the DREAM Act.”
………..
It’d been nice if they’d been patriotically concerned about the integrity of this nation, but hey, a healthy fear of voter reprisals at the ballot box works, too.
‘Ever vigilant’ is right – these nasties bills are sitting in the closest drawer for the Democrats – watch out for the incredibly evil Universal Draft Bill – Rangel reintroduced it in July into this session and the warning flag for it was the Democrat-larded Congressional panel suddenly announcing last week that ‘women in combat was an idea which “time had come.” The media is already larding the airwaves and print across the country with suggestions that “some regions bear more of a burden supporting the military than others” which is “unfair” and perhaps shoud be “fixed” by some … means. Rangel and Hillary always push that poor people carry more military burden so “rich people” need to “share” despite the actual statistics that middle class and upper middle class whites are disproportionately volunteering for military servce, with higher education achievements disproportionately. The stats expose the Democrat lying meant to creat a false narrative to drum up support for their monstrosity.
What a coincidence for a lurking Demoncrat Universal Draft of men and women 18-42 that the military didn’t ask for, doesn’t want, and the nation doesn’t know is about totalitarian control over the population by central decree by the POTUS for ANY PURPOSE, with rewards and punishments for assignments meted out by a politically-appointed draft board.
The Demoncrats hope to dump so many people into unemployment they’ll jump at being drafted for ANYTHING and so accept this slavery dressed up as “sharing military burden.” Two thirds of the proposed draft has NOTHING to do with actual military needs of ANY kind and Hillary herself said it was all about shutting down the current American military structure that has served this nation effectively since it was established by Thomas Jefferson during the Barbary Wars in 1800.
This UNiversal Draft Bill bill is more evil than all the others combined, and it’s not dead, either.
Lightwave commented:
Seems to me that Democrats have a lot of explaining to do if Latinos are upset about the Back-Door Amnesty bill.
Democratic Sens. Mark Pryor (AR), Jon Tester (MT), Ben Nelson (NE), Kay Hagan (NC), and Max Baucus (MT) all voted no.
Gosh if they had all voted yes this would have passed.
Why are Democrats so RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACIST?
No, no puedo!
BigAlSouth commented:
Lisa MadKowski apparently swayed by the self-starving Hispanics kids flooding Alaska . . .
Indy Voter commented:
Ok folks, I’m not celebrating yet, we have to hope 4 Dems – Hagan, Baucus, Pryor and Nelson hold strong….what if Reid brings this up again, Hagan and Baucus are usually strong party line voters, Pryor too but he must be spooked by the 2010 elections when B. Lincoln got the boot. I believe Reid will bring this up again after some deal making / arm twisting.
Also with a vote 55-41, that’s 96 total, who are the 4 who didn’t vote? I think there is a D who left for medical treatment, who didn’t vote? Am I missing something?
TxBitty commented:
Not Voting – 4
Bunning (R-KY)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Manchin (D-WV)
Mad Hatter commented:
Remember we have Revolutionary Communist in the House of Representatives that won’t let go of this.
Congressman Getierrez of Illinois, Newsweek interview, Nov 29th, 2010.
“I have only one loyalty,” he says, “and that’s to the immigrant community.”
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/29/pushing-obama-on-immigration-reform.html
This is going to be interesting if he holds to his words.
The DREAM Act, Gutiérrez says, is for now his final legislative maneuver. He’s finished waiting for the mythical 60th vote to materialize in the Senate. No, when the lame duck ends, Gutiérrez and his movement allies will ask for a divorce—from the Democratic Party, from the entire lawmaking process.
To hear Gutiérrez tell it, Hispanic leaders are about to stage a full-tilt campaign of direct action, like the African-American civil-rights movement of the 1960s. There will be protests, marches, sit-ins—what César Chávez might have called going rogue. The movement will operate autonomously, no longer beholden to wavering Democrats, filibustering Republicans, and—perhaps most tantalizingly—no longer beholden to Barack Obama.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-12-01/luis-gutirrez-and-coming-latino-revolt/full/
Ginger commented:
Hey, Gutierrez……………. show us your papers! Maybe you snuck over the boarder too!
Indy Voter commented:
TxBitty – Thanks!
As an American who happens to be of Hispanic heritage, I am sick of Gutierrez claiming to speak for Hispanics. My mother learned to speak English and worked hard in school…all the way to her PhD, she’s a conservative and strongly against this bill / amnesty.
My father came here legally, got his green card, paid taxes for years…decided the right to vote was something he wanted so he became a citizen, followed the legal process and has voted proudly ever since…doesn’t miss an election. I welcome those from other countries, just do it legally.
Look what’s happening in NC, is this happening in your state? The mobile Mexican Consulate is coming to the Greenville NC Convention Center this Saturday AND Sunday(18th and 19th) to sell Mexican matricula consular ID cards and Mexican passports to UNDOCUMENTED aliens in the area. 303 Greenville Blvd., Greenville, NC (252) 321-7671.
http://www.gcccalendar.com/month.php They will also be REGISTERING PEOPLE TO VOTE! The Mexican Consulate has leased space in the TAXPAYER FUNDED Convention Center for 2 days because of the large number of illegal aliens that need documents. Why is a foreign national government handling their affairs on North Carolina taxpayer property??
http://northcoastal.ncfreedom.us/2010/12/16/immigration-action-alert-december-18th-and-19th/
Paul Ben commented:
Eh Well… Now Catholics won’t be able to match and exceed the number of Protestants in this country, temporarily at least. Let’s make more Catholic babies, in the meantime!! More faithfuls=more power=more money. By the way, I’m Catholic!!
Henry Hawkins commented:
@ Indy Voter #35 – Thanks for putting the light on the shenanigans going on here in North Cackalacky. Luckily, NC was one of the states whose congress flipped over to Republican on Nov 2nd, and we can only hope changes are coming.
JDStone commented:
As a Californian nothing makes my day more than to see DREAM Act go down in flames.No amnesty now No amnesty forever!! Illegals have ruined this state and have us teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.I suppose they will take to the streets of Fresno,LA,Sacramento,SF
and start rioting.Go ahead A**holes just keep to your own barrios and stay the hell out of my neighborhood!
MVH commented:
#16 December 18, 2010 at 11:15 am
With squishy Repubs like Mitch McConnell, its become even more important to back Ann Wagner, a West Point Mom, as RNC chair.
At the least, this brave, intelligent woman, will give the GOP a gutsy face since she’s got no problems facing off with anyone who including the MITTens wing of the Republican Party (think RomneyCare). At the most, she brings with her very good political experience!
She worked on Roy Blunt’s successful campaign in Missouri. So she knows about facing of with
the Democrat Party,LibsMarxists!GrayRider commented:
The American people can now exhale and breathe easier. Massive amnesty has been averted again. Si se puede!!!
MVH commented:
#38 December 18, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Have you seen Victor David Hanson’s article titled Two Californias? It’s really an eye-opener for those who don’t live in California’s central valley.
News report only speak of “innocent” kids who were brought here. They don’t talk about the part of the Dream Act that says that “young people” are up to 35-years-of age, and the act doesn’t require that they actually graduate from college!
The SkullGutierrez is right when he says his loyalty is only to“the immigrant community”. What he means is the illegal Hispanic community. He doesn’t care “immigrants” that will also benefit from amnesty come from countries that want to destroy the USA
Oldpuppymax commented:
Bennett’s parting shot at the American voter; Lugar has always been a pi$$-ant, RINO sell-out and Murkowski should be thrown out of the party if only to prevent her SPYING and reporting to her leftist friends on republican meetings!
JDStone commented:
MVH #41
Yes i caught this article the other day in the Fresno Bee and i am a great fan of VDH and his work.In all my 53 yrs of living here in the formerly Great Central Valley it saddens me to no end to see what a Third World hellhole it is becoming.May i suggest the other posters to this site read the article it is very telling story of the way we have gone to hell in a handbasket.This should be run in every newspaper in the country.
tommy mc donnell commented:
the dream act is another example of politicans using your tax dollars to buy votes. the reason you pay taxes is to pay for the services that government is providing you. that is the only legimate reason a government has to tax. the purpose of this act is to give a service to someone who doesn’t pay taxes. if you want your freedom you have to fight to take back the right to the fruits of your labor. what you work for is suppose to belong to you and you alone. the is why they fought the revolution in 1776.
Mad Hatter commented:
Is it me, or does it look like Harry Reid slipped the DREAM Act in the CR?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.5281:
Andreas K. commented:
Lovely.
And now make sure it stays dead.
Meanwhile I’m off to Japan. Merry Christmas and a very early happy new year folks.
Joanie commented:
Looks to me like DREAM is NOT dead after all. They’ve just hidden it in another bill. Disgusting!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the link for HR 5281 http://is.gd/iYrkk
I don’t think this is the CR bill but it definitely contains the DREAM Act and Harry Reid just referred it to committee on 12/16/2010.
Call your Congress Critters and alert them.
Espresso Logic - The 6th Sense commented:
I see that the Senate finally flushed that turd.
yomomma commented:
damn racists! dont you idiots see that the children were not brought in at their will. Its not like they are bloody criminals. They actually do all the dirty work americans fail to. We should be grateful but like usual our own self fish patheticness blinds us. Bunch of Douchebags
Joanie commented:
To yomomma, there is already a legal path toward citizenship for each and every one of these illegals. ALl they have to do is fill out the application and get at the end of the line, just like immigrants from all over the world have been doing for decades.
Chisum commented:
If you don’t give the illegals everything they demand then you are a racist.
This much we have learned.
yodaddy commented:
really? I did not know that? -_-
the Dream Act would have helped the students who have no fault and do you have any idea how long and tedious the process is? most of them get rejected. At least help the students.
The Underground Conservative commented:
“At least help the students.”
Horse hockey! Get the hell out of my country and go back where you came from and come here legally.
Yes, I support making it easier to legally immigrate to the United States. Granting amnesty to illegal aliens will just generate more illegal aliens. Didn’t the 1986 amnesty teach us anything?
The Underground Conservative commented:
Here. This is what the illegal aliens think of the rest of us.
Chisum commented:
The Underground Conservative,
Awww, that was just JosA and JosB sending us a little love. With a big pinch of gimme gimme.
yodaddy commented:
HAHA i was born here legally moron. rightly assume I am an immagrent because I am more considerate about them than you so called Americans. Just to clear your naive presumption I am blonde with blue eyes. Oh maybe that makes me a true american, my physical aspect and not perspective about immigration. Like I said before PATHETIC!
befuddled commented:
way to go murkowski… how many mexicans actually find their way into alaska, again?doesn’t seem like she has any skin in the game, if you ask me.
Indyeast commented:
Yodaddy…wondered where you went.
This person says the same thing on topix for the last 4 yrs.
I guess she doesn’t understand illegals don’t have a certain look.
Married to an illegal. Used to have a trucking business here…..moved to some southern country……
Yes I remember you.
Diane Valencen commented:
Well the GOP has thrown away the Latino vote for the next fifty years. I hope the TEA Party people have a lot of kids who have a lot of kids because all the Boomers will be dead in a generation or so. White America is about to wake up one morning and be shocked that not only are they no longer in a majority in population, but that they are no longer in charge. Guess you guys will have to start your own civil war then huh? Oh, right, taking up arms against the US government is a thing called terrorism isn’t it? Darn that 9/11 thing again! I guess you’ll all have to learn to share.
Branfi commented:
MANY HERE WHO ARE AGAINST THE DREAM ACT NEED TO EDUCATE YOURSELVES ABOUT THE ISSUE FIRST. There is a lot more to it than you think.
I read about half of all the posts here and I was shocked with what I was reading; comments such as, “go back to your country you illegals, DA will weaken the military, they will take American’s jobs, etc.”
To begin with, nobody is taking your jobs! The jobs are out there, and if you educate yourself, get yourself out there and knock on doors, you WILL find a job. (I’m saying this from personal experience- been laid off 4 times and every time got a job within two weeks) We’re on a recession, it’s not easy but it’s do-able. Some of you need to STOP blaming immigrants for your problems.
Stop the racist comments blue eyes and blonde hair doesn’t make any more American. This legislation wouldn’t have rewarded any wrong doing. The people it would have applied to would be young people who had absolutely no fault at breaking the law. I read in one of the posts “send illegals and their offspring back to their country”. That person needs to read our constitution to know that whoever is born here is an American citizen, otherwise, YOU wouldn’t be here (you’re parents or grandparents WERE immigrants).
Now, the ones that were not fortunate enough to arrive here before they were born, I want to remind you that it is illogical to send them “back to their country”. They grew up here, went to school here, learned the constitution, history, anthem of the US and most importantly learned to love the United States next to your children. THIS is their country. It is all they have ever known. Passing the DA would have being fair to the young people who today walk among us and we don’t know their struggles because, as American as they are at heart, they cannot have a DL, they can’t serve this country, enroll in a college or universtity. etc. Basically, they’re not living a normal life.
This is an ONGOING issue for them. While many of you live your lives peacefully, these kids are living a CONSTANT struggle that seems to be more of a punishment for something they did not do.
Most of you seem so relieved that it did not go through. Let me tell you something, I feel deeply sorry for your narrow, egocentric minds. Turn on the TV and watch how many young people were looking at today as the decisive moment of their lives. Watch them cry when they found out the senate blocked the DA, their only hope to live a normal life in the country they call home. You think they will leave because they labeled “illegals” here? NO. There staying here, in the only home they know with struggles and all. They won’t give up, trust me on that.
Mad Hatter commented:
#61,
First off, is there something about the word “illegal” you don’t understand.
You’re an over emotional, over reactionary, ill informed person.
“Some of you need to STOP blaming immigrants for your problems.” They’re illegal immigrants, not immigrants. Get your facts straight.
I know, I know, the truth hurts, but deal it with.
“This legislation wouldn’t have rewarded any wrong doing. The people it would have applied to would be young people who had absolutely no fault at breaking the law.”
If a person comes into the Country, and doesn’t wait in line like the legal and lawful immigrants do, then it’s breaking our immigration laws. No one is going to be allowed to take a short cut to citizenship regardless if they’re at fault or not.
“you’re parents or grandparents WERE immigrants” You know nothing about any of our parents, grandparents or our family history. And here you are complaining about stereotyping when you’re doing it.
“Now, the ones that were not fortunate enough to arrive here before they were born, I want to remind you that it is illogical to send them “back to their country”. They grew up here, went to school here, learned the constitution, history, anthem of the US and most importantly learned to love the United States next to your children. THIS is their country.”
It’s not illogical to want them to send them back to their country of origin, and repatriate them from where they were born. They then can start their legal, and lawful process of waiting in line, and becoming a U.S. Citizen like the legal immigrants do.
They’re not legal, or lawful citizens, therefore this it not their country.
“Passing the DA would have being fair to the young people who today walk among us and we don’t know their struggles because, as American as they are at heart, they cannot have a DL, they can’t serve this country, enroll in a college or universtity. etc. Basically, they’re not living a normal life.”
“Being fair to the young people” is an emotional statement, not a legal one. I challenge you to show me in the Constitution you clam to know so well, where “being fair” is. My parents taught me, life isn’t fair, and “being fair” isn’t the law.
They can’t do the following you listed since they’re not legal, lawful citizens, it’s called following the legal steps to becoming a citizen, not taking short cuts because of the time they’ve been here illegally.
“Most of you seem so relieved that it did not go through. Let me tell you something, I feel deeply sorry for your narrow, egocentric minds.”
Yes, we are very relieved that the rule of law is not going to be ignored, and people that entered the U.S. unlawfully will not be given special treatment to a short cut to citizenship. Wanting our immigration laws followed, and not skipped over doesn’t make for a narrow or egocentric mind. It makes us the citizens that value the legal, and lawful immigration process.
“Turn on the TV and watch how many young people were looking at today as the decisive moment of their lives. Watch them cry when they found out the senate blocked the DA.”
Too bad, the law is the law, if it’s not enforced, then it has no meaning. Their crying means nothing but more people sad they didn’t get what they think they’re entitled to.
“You think they will leave because they labeled “illegals” here? NO. There staying here, in the only home they know with struggles and all. They won’t give up, trust me on that.”
They’re labeled illegal, because they are in the U.S. illegally, and the more states that pass Arizona type laws, the more will be leaving.
Since we, the American citizens, have the power of the vote, and since we have the law on our side, we’re just getting started, trust me on that.
The Underground Conservative commented:
Left unsaid was the Democrats will be short some 12 million votes when the Community Organizer in Chief runs for re-anointment in 2012.
Branfi commented:
@61
First of all, I was quoting one of the previous posts when I said “illegals”. The correct term is “undocumented immigrants”, and many of the people here who have your same ideas seem to ignore that. Oh and whatever you’re calling me… i don’t care, we’re both entitled to our opinions.
You call this a short-cut to citizenship? FYI, Under the DA it takes at least 10 yrs to become a citizen, and ONLY if they still qualify for it. They’d need to EARN it. You call that a short cut? You want to send them back and have them “wait in line” for about 15+ yrs. (They are barred from entering the country for 10 plus whatever the process takes, AND it’s not guaranteed if they have a direct family sponsor who is an American citizen).
That plus whatever their age is, is half a lifetime!
I knew the “your parents and grandparents are immigrants” would come up. Well, according to the U.S. Census Bureau from 2000, only 2.8% of the US population has American Indian ancestry. This means that the rest have immigrant ancestors. You want me to be specific? Ok: “your parents, or grandparents, or great grandparents, or great great grandparents, or great grea grandparents, etc, were immigrants. Unless you’re fully from that 2.8% who is American Indian.” As you can see, my generalization was more a simplification, aside from the 2.8% American Indian ancestry I added.
Since you have the law on your side, take this example, as I heard in on of the debates; if a person is stopped by a cop and there’s a toddler in the back without his/her seat belt on, who gets the ticket? The law gives it to the driver, right? Well, it seems like you would give it to the toddler.
Now, I know we’re talking about immigration laws, but I hope you’re mind isn’t narrow, as you claim, and you get the idea.
You say “being fair” isn’t the law. I agree to an extent. To the extent where we shouldn’t allow unfairness within the law. If you don’t agree with that, you’re obviously willing to settle for unfair laws.
The law should be enforced, which is why they’re doing all this. So they can work legally and live in their home country legally (because if you ask any of them, America is their home). Otherwise, they’re going to be getting jobs in the black market just to survive. They will then be breaking the law which and consequently be subject to punishment.
The Dream ACT would only give them a CONDITIONAL residence for a 6 yrs. If they don‘t meet certain qualification, then their conditional residence is taken away. They don’t want to steal anything from Americans. They want to WORK and LIVE like the regular American they were raised as.
I and many American citizens, as well as the College Board, the NEA, presidents and chancellors of more than 73 colleges and universities all over the United States (only to mention a few) who support this issue are also not done fighting for this.
Branfi commented:
—->>>> POST #65 if for Mad Hatter’s #63
tommy mc donnell commented:
undocumented immigrants, illegal aliens, undocumented workers, bulls**t. they are colonizers brought here by the american politican to take this country away from the american people. just like diane #60 says. the politican brings the colonizer here to give the politican the dictatorial power that the american people would never give them. after the 1980 presidential election liberal america realized that as long as america had a white majority they would never be able to take over the country. the hope up to that time was the black welfare baby thing. paying people to have more kids. but that would take entirely too long. so they devised a strategy to colonize the country with a non-white colonization. the purpose of this immigration was to make whites a minority. how is that for racism. ths strategy was a rousing success. prior to 1980 of all the people who immigrated to the united states 90% were from europe. in the decade from 1980 to 1990 liberal america was able to completely reverse that. in that decade 90% of all immigrants were non-european. this colonization has gone on now for thirty years. these colonizers are an invading army brought here to take this country from the american people just like diane #60 says. just because they don’t come with tanks and guns to conquer us doesn’t mean that is not their intention. they are going to conquer us by making us a minority just like diane #60 says. the battle cry of the hispanic colonizer for over thirty years has been “today this is your country tomorrow it is ours.” their weapon to conquer us is the rights to the fruits of our labor that the american politican has given them. colonizers get free healthcare. just go to any hospital emergency room on a weekend. colonizers get free education, social security, disability, unemployment and any other service that the government offers. this constitutes much more than any taxpayer gets because taxpayers are not eligible to collect most government services. how is that for social justice. the politicans induce the colonizers to come here and to stay with these services. in order to keep their colonizers separate from the rest of the americans the liberals instituted their multi-cultural program, english as a second language and created a new race(the hispanic race)to convince a people the majority of whom are caucausian that they are different from white people. just because these colonizers do not come as an army does not mean that the american does not have the right to resist and repel this invasion. their intention is to conquer us and take this country away just like diane #60 says. the americans have to demand that the american politican return us the right to the fruits of our labor and any services that the government provides are for americans and americans only. if we don’t then we will become the minority like diane #60 wants and we will lose our country. the power to tax is the power to tyrannize. l
GLM In Ohio commented:
This debate will rage on for years and may never be resolved, because as usual, it boils down to Conservative vs Liberal viewpoints. The fact is, liberals are a traditionally lawless bunch. They believe that we should open the borders to millions of other liberals, and let them take the country away from those of us who fought, shed blood, and died for it. They fear Conservatives, and view us as the enemy, because we believe in law and order and the Constitution, and expect them to be hard working, productive citizens. They want to overwhelm us in numbers, but it’s just not going to happen. Conservatives believe in equal rights and responsibilities for all Americans. We believe in enforcing fair and reasonable laws, that have been debated and passed by the legislative branch of our government, not the courts or the Executive branch. We believe that America belongs to Americans. People who want to come here must abide by our laws, and are considered guests until they have gone through the proper channels and become citizens. We consider those who attempt to circumvent these procedures to be invaders, and those who aid them in doing so, to be traitors. It’s going to stop, one way or another. The invaders, and the traitors who aid them, are about to get a taste of the will of the American people.
We’ve been asleep for too many years, but the commotion the Obama administration has raised as they trampled our rights and rammed all this unconstitutional legislation down our throats has roused us from that sleep. We see what is happening, and we ARE going to put an end to it.
I have news for all you whining liberals who think that shooting this piece of garbage legislation down was a mistake….. Shooting it down stopped about 20 million new liberal voters from hitting the polls, so Conservatives are NOT going to lose the majority over this. In fact, when the ADULTS re-convene in January, and pass REAL immigration and election reform, about ten million potential liberal voters are going to be sent home, and another ten million will no longer be voting illegally. Our economy will begin to recover as all the “jobs Americans won’t do” are returned to their rightful owners, and our elections will begin to reflect the true will of the majority. We have only just begun.
Mad Hatter commented:
Branfi you’re typical of trying to define terms of who is and who isn’t a legal, lawful resident.
There is no such thing as an undocumented immigrant. They came into this country without following the law, therefore they entered illegally, therefore, they are illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigrants. Got it? You’re not in a position of authority to change that definition. Then again, no one is.
“You call this a short-cut to citizenship? FYI, Under the DA it takes at least 10 yrs to become a citizen, and ONLY if they still qualify for it. They’d need to EARN it. You call that a short cut?”
That’s correct, it is a shortcut. They came into this country without waiting in line like all the other legal, and lawful immigrants around the world have done. The immigration laws are not going to be changed because of people not following the rule of law, and then, “oh well, they’re here, now we can change the immigration laws to fit the way they’re coming to this country.” Not a chance. The laws are the laws, and we will not bend for once inch to change them and give an exception to our immigration laws.
Yes, my great, great, grandparents were immigrants, legal immigrants. They didn’t walk across a border at their own free will. They followed the legal, lawful process. Again, you display generalization, and know nothing about my great, great grandparents lawful and legal process when they entered the U.S. You have no room to act like you know my families history. Thanks for showing off your ignorance.
“Since you have the law on your side, take this example, as I heard in on of the debates; if a person is stopped by a cop and there’s a toddler in the back without his/her seat belt on, who gets the ticket? The law gives it to the driver, right? Well, it seems like you would give it to the toddler.”
Very poor example. You give an example of someone getting a simple traffic ticket, I’m talking about people crossing our borders that have no right to come into our country.
And if you’re trying to give an example of “the child didn’t do anything wrong, so why should the child be punished” we also have laws that, if a parent gets arrested for an unlawful act, the child in taken away from the parent(s). That’s just the way it goes.
“Now, I know we’re talking about immigration laws, but I hope you’re mind isn’t narrow, as you claim, and you get the idea.”
Just because I want to make sure our immigration laws are enforced, and not changed or ignored, and just because I don’t believe in your bleeding heart emotional plea, doesn’t make me narrow minded. Maybe you’re the one that’s narrow minded.
“You say “being fair” isn’t the law. I agree to an extent. To the extent where we shouldn’t allow unfairness within the law. If you don’t agree with that, you’re obviously willing to settle for unfair laws.”
The only unfairness that’s being presented, is from the open border, pro amnesty crowd that wants there to be an exception to our immigration law, or trying to change our laws in the middle of having people that entered here unlawfully.
“The law should be enforced, which is why they’re doing all this. So they can work legally and live in their home country legally (because if you ask any of them, America is their home)”
You’re correct, the law should be enforced, the existing laws. That’s all the American citizens are asking for the politicians to do. Not change the existing laws, but to enforce existing immigrations laws.
“Otherwise, they’re going to be getting jobs in the black market just to survive. They will then be breaking the law which and consequently be subject to punishment.”
Poor excuse.
My parents grew up in the Great Depression, they and millions of other Americans didn’t break the law to survive during those tough times.
“The Dream ACT would only give them a CONDITIONAL residence for a 6 yrs. If they don‘t meet certain qualification, then their conditional residence is taken away.”
And if they don’t meet these certain qualifications, then their conditional residence is taken away? Then what happens to them? Send them back to their country of origin? I thought you were against deporting them?
We as a nation don’t have to wait six years to see if they meet some made up “certain qualifications” from Senators and Congressmen that are trying to rewrite our immigration laws. There “certain condition” is that you enter the U.S. legally, and lawfully. Period.
“They don’t want to steal anything from Americans. They want to WORK and LIVE like the regular American they were raised as.”
I never said they wanted to steal anything from anyone.
“I and many American citizens, as well as the College Board, the NEA, presidents and chancellors of more than 73 colleges and universities all over the United States (only to mention a few) who support this issue are also not done fighting for this.”
Your list is unimpressive.
The College Board members, and NEA Presidents, and Chancellors are a group of anti Western-culture-snobs that think this is a rotten country. Not only to they support the DREAM Act, many of them support a free flow of people across North American borders.
For them, this is their first step (notice I didn’t say you) in phasing out our borders with Mexico. They have no credibility in any border security, or immigration enforcement debate.
Finally, I don’t want you to be done fighting. I really don’t. As a matter of fact, hold massive protest in the streets in L.A., Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Chicago, etc. Please, do so. I bet you to.
The more you fight for the so called social justice, or human rights, or whatever catch phrase you want to use, you’re filling the American people with a great resolve. That’s what you, and others like you don’t get.
You lecture to us about what should, and shouldn’t be when it comes to a law that is a personal agenda for you. The more you do this, the more you overplay your hand. The more you overplay your hand. The more November 2nd, 2010 Mid Term Elections you will witness.
So again, I beg you, protest in the streets, please, do it. And as you hold your protest in the streets, we’ll hold our protest and the ballot box. 2010 was just our start, the fun has just begun, and you give fuel to our fire. I Thank You for that. I really do.
Branfi commented:
All your arguments trying to invalidate mine go in circles.
Your only true argument behind all this is “make them wait in line like every other legal immigrant”. Which isn’t bad, however, the day you understand that THAT is not going to happen out of simple logic for the young crowd that would have go under the DA, hopefully then you will be able to think outside your rightist, and closed box.
You want me to protest… really? Please don’t be naive. (that comment of yours really made laugh) Besides, IF that’s the only way you think an issue is worked, you need to really work on thinking outside your box.
The conditions under the DA are imposed because it’s not amnesty. If the conditions are not met after 6yrs (which are having a degree from a 2 or 4yr higher education institution, or serving at least 2yrs in the military), then obviously their legal status would be taken away, it’s the CONDITIONS under the DA. However, I’m talking about students, young people who lived most of their lives here and WANT to do such things, go to school or join the military. Those are the ones that shouldn’t be deported for any reason. I assure you that most under the Dream ACT would, in the end, qualify for the permanent residence. Otherwise, they’d be trying to get a permanent residence the wrong route.
“… Poor excuse.
My parents grew up in the Great Depression, they and millions of other Americans didn’t break the law to survive during those tough times.”
You certainly didn’t grasp the idea. Your parents were able to work legally. Anyone who isn’t a resident, citizen of this country, or has a work permit, automatically breaks the law the moment they work in any type of job, even if it’s self employed. You should go back and review the immigration laws. You seem to be quite confused, and also seem to ignore of the actual size of this issue in general.
“And if you’re trying to give an example of “the child didn’t do anything wrong, so why should the child be punished” we also have laws that, if a parent gets arrested for an unlawful act, the child in taken away from the parent(s). That’s just the way it goes”
If a child is taken away by the gov’t, it’s with the intention of protecting them. If you agree on the fact that children should not be punished for the wrong doing of their parents, which from your statement, you do. Correct? The punishment (because it is a punishment to the young people who were brought to this country illegally by their parents) of sending them back and having them wait in line shouldn’t be imposed on them. Meaning, you’d agree with a legislature like the Dream ACT. (I suggest you also go review it).
Since you proved my point, (aside from the fact that couldn’t come up with other valid arguments interesting enough to keep my interest in this entire conversation), I’m done.
Mad Hatter commented:
It’s a shame that you’re gone, I was enjoying this.
“All your arguments trying to invalidate mine go in circles.”
I don’t make argument, I make points. I don’t in circles, I’m just not budging from my position that I have.
“You want me to protest… really? Please don’t be naive. (that comment of yours really made laugh)”
As I stated before, yes, I want you to protest. I”m not being naive, I’m being very serious. Gather up a few million and march on Washington. Have massive protest around the cities I listed in my last post, but make sure you do it. How about on May 1st of 2011? Maybe May 5th of 2011?
And when you gather up your troops, make sure you take these filthy mangy mutts with you. Have them speak in the same manner with the cameras present as they speak in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM&feature=related
“You certainly didn’t grasp the idea. Your parents were able to work legally. Anyone who isn’t a resident, citizen of this country, or has a work permit, automatically breaks the law the moment they work in any type of job, even if it’s self employed. You should go back and review the immigration laws. You seem to be quite confused, and also seem to ignore of the actual size of this issue in general.”
All the reason they should be headed back home and start the legal process of coming into the country. I”m not confused at all. I know exactly the scope and size of this, but myself and others have one simple solution. Enforce existing immigration laws. It’s just that simple.
And yes, I have reviewed the Nightmare Act. A few facts about it that you failed to mention.
The Congressional Budget Office says that the DREAM Act is expected to add more than $5 billion to the federal deficit.
In addition to immediately placing an estimated 1–2 million illegal aliens on a path to citizenship, the number is expected to grow since the bill has neither a cap nor a sunset.
Once naturalized, aliens granted DREAM Act amnesty will then have the legal right to petition for entry of their family members, including their adult siblings and the parents who illegally brought or sent them to the United States—easily tripling the number of green cards.
And all other facts in the PDF file.
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/Backgrounder1_Dream_Act.pdf
The only valid point, not argument, I need to make is obeying the rule of law as written.
The difference between where you stand on this, and where I stand on this is simple.
For you, this is part of an agenda, as you want to craft the laws to meet what you think should be.
For me, this is part of upholding the rule of law, and seeing them forced as they are.
branfi21 commented:
Hey Matt,
I was curious to see if you had replied, and I come to find that, unsurprisingly, you did.
However, you also displayed your ignorance and prejudice giving me another reason to why I find it completely pointless to discuss this matter with you any further.
You need to inform yourself better.
Review your sources since your pdf file with DA facts is completely outdated. (2006). To fill you in the latest news, The Dream ACT was thoroughly reviewed and modified a few weeks ago. Even wikipedia is a way better source of info on the DA than you.
As future reference for your future reads, I suggest you always check the dates, check other sources on the same topic (meaning try to get all the sides of the story), analyze their content and then make a personal conclusion.
branfi21 commented:
Sry, your name is Mad, not Matt.
LOL