Polish Leader & 95 Others Dead in Russia Plane Crash …Update: Airport Was Closed Before Landing Attempt
Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, April 10, 2010, 7:30 AM
The leader of Poland and 95 other top officials were killed in a plane crash this morning en route to a ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.
Polish President Lech Kaczynski and up to 131 others traveling with him to commemorate the mass killing of Polish officers during World War Two died on Saturday when his plane crashed on landing in western Russia. (Pravda)
Russia’s Ria Novosti reported that up to 131 were killed in the crash in Western Russia.
Russia Today has video:
The AP reported:
Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country’s highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 96, officials said.
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.
The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland’s political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said.
Although initial signs pointed to an accident with no indication of foul play, the death of a Polish president and much of the Polish state and defense establishment in Russia en route to commemorating one of the saddest events in Poland’s long, complicated history with Russia, was laden with tragic irony.
Astute Bloggers has more on the crash.
UPDATE: The Airport was closed — Pilot made multiple landing attempts.
The Guradian reported:
The pilot was told Smolensk airport was closed because of thick fog, according to the news agency Interfax. He was offered a choice of landing instead at either Moscow or Minsk, the capital of Belarus, but decided to continue with the original flight plan to Smolensk.
The pilot made three unsuccessful attempts to land before the crash. On the fourth try the plane fell apart, Interfax said, citing officials at Smolensk’s interior ministry.
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Published May 24, 2012 at 8:46 pm - 86 Comments
Mats commented:
God bless their relatives and God bless Poland.
Bill Mitchell commented:
The lesson here is don’t fly around in broken down old Russian planes in the fog. Hard to believe they let their president travel in that pos. They crash pretty much constantly.
Sad story.
Pat the First commented:
That is just awful. That is why you don’t put a lot of people with authority on one plane. I am sure they will be okay, but what a horrible thing to happen to a country.
jb commented:
Poland needs our support more now then ever. Lets see how the Prezbo responds to this news.
ironbill commented:
I got a real bad chill up my spine when I came across this (from Jammiewearingfool.com)
Russians are not nice people
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/10/2869413.htm?section=world
TaSS commented:
Sincere condolences to the people of Poland.
May God be with them.
Bogdan from Australia commented:
This is a great tragedy not only for Poland but for the entire Eastern Europe as Lech Kaczynski was the only leader prominent and courageous enough to resist growing influence of neo-Soviet regime of Vladimir Putin.
This crash couldn’t suit Putin much better.
It is a true lucky day for that DEMON.
His next aim is to eliminate the Georgian President Saakashwili.
The tragic departure of Polish President, who was a friend and a steadfast supporter of Saakashwili will make Putin’s task much easier.
After finishing off the Georgian President, the next Putin’s target will be to instigate the civil war in Ukraine in order to carve the Eastern, Russian-speaking part of that country, which is also much better industrialised, in particular when the space, aircraft, nuclear, ship building and above all the acces to Black Sea port of Sevastopol is concerned.
Acquiring the 25 million Russian-speaking people would be an enormous gain for Russia in a situation when she faces a demographic implosion due to alcoholism, AIDS, tuberculosis and other bilogical and social pathologies.
Even the tini Baltic states will be having an extremally disquiet sleep.
The tragic death of Lech Kaczynski – the man of a small stature but of the great heart and spirit,
signals a much greater tragedy in working.
It shows that the departure even of one person from the political scene can have an enormous impact on the global politics.
I’m worrying again about the future of the country I’ve come from….
ahem commented:
I’m with ironBill; this is worse than we think. Something about this stinks to high heaven. Putin is a very bad man, and it is very convenient that the entire government of a country who has been abandoned by the US and whose territories Russia would like to reabsorb is now dead.
This is an outrageous crime.
bill-tb commented:
Nothing good seems to ever come when Russians and Polish meet …
retire05 commented:
Planes don’t “fall apart” due to fog. Even turbulant weather will not cause a plane to “fall apart”. And planes definately don’t “fall apart” due to three landing tries. If that were the case, we would be having planes “fall apart” all across the U.S. every day when there is bad weather.
There is more to this story than meets the eye, or what we are being told, I suspect. Taking into account that the crash happened in Russia proper, we may never know the truth. Russia needs to open the investigation to the U.S. (although I doubt that Obama would have the cajones to report any foul play on the part of Russia).
This is just too coincidential.
JonahVark commented:
If my memory serves me correctly, wasn’t the Polish leader one of those who opposed Obama signing the nuclear arms treaty?
jb commented:
A misguided ILS frequency and bam you are in the trees.
ahem commented:
A misguided foreign policy and bam–you’re in the trees.
Mrs. X commented:
God bless these people and their families. God bless Poland.
This is tragic. And I agree, something doesn’t smell too good.
Beth commented:
Watch: Now Russia will move in on Poland and the Czech Republic (that Obama just dissed) and China will move on Taiwan. And Obama will be fine with all of that.
Insufficiently Sensitive commented:
Richard Fernandez has nailed it. In 1940 the Russians massacred about 18,000 Polish officers, including many top Government officials, at Katyn Forest – and succeeded for many years in blaming the Germans for that decapitation of the Polish nation. Our leftist press has never shown much interest in that crime. Lech Kaczynski had just gotten some public dialog started, and the caliber of the delegation on that plane shows how seriously the Poles took the subject. And now Poland is decapitated again, in nearly the same place. Sincere condolences.
gus commented:
Don’t worry Obama is on top of things.
Anyone care for a game of H*O*R*S*E??
Jean commented:
Blame Obama.
This is Obama’s fault.
greenfairie commented:
I smell a big ol’ Russian rat.
wanumba commented:
Don’t like the circumstances at all. As close to a de facto coup d’etat as they get, given how many high ranking officials were on one plane.
It evokes Southern Sudan leader Joseph Garang’s death in a helicopter crash shortly after the Comprehensive Peace Agreement. The Southerners raged against the Northerners – there were about ten fatwas on Garang’s head so even IF it had been an accident, they knew very well his death suited Khartoum just fine.
WHat Khartoum really didn’t expect was that the Southerners calmed down, held together and facilitated an orderly transfer of government – of a brand new government that had been in existence only about a month anyway, with most of the political leadership not even in place at the time of the crash.
Against all expectations, against ALL odds, the South did not fall into chaos and the shift in leadership was even more resolved to make the South work. Instead of weakening the South, the terrible loss actually strengthened it.
So, much depends now how well the Poles carry forward an orderly transfer of power. The implications of the reason for the Head of State to travel may well steel the Poles’ resolve as they mourn.
Valerie commented:
Condolences can go here:
Consular Section
2224 Wyoming Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20008
washington.consular@msz.gov.pl
Włodzimierz Sulgostowski, First Counselor, Head of Section
WTF? Putin is going to personally head the investigation??????
Well, that will certainly lead to an unbiased report! /s
In the US, that’s known as unlawful command influence.
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/weekly/aa103000d.htm
We also call it “the mortal enemy of justice.”
Robert commented:
Since our brilliant President Pudd’nhead of course managed to mention himself but did not see fit to mention the American people in his message, I would extend my condolences to the people of Poland on this tragic day.
Ruebacca commented:
omg.
May God have Mercy.
newton commented:
I smell a rat. A Communist rat.
marybel commented:
This smelled pretty bad before Putin announced that he himself will be in charge of the investigation….now it REEKS.
avery commented:
I agree with Retire05 no#10 and Beth no#15.
dnb commented:
The symbolism involved in actions of Obama and Putin towards Poland should not be lost on the peoples of America and Poland. Poland, beware the bear at your door.
Voters for hope and change, what have you wrought?
Fred J Harris commented:
Our President has planted his ‘turdlets’ all over the world. With spring sprung they are growing into little nightmares. With luck the
Ivy league genius will lead us into a new World War.
Jayne on the left coast commented:
I don’t know a thing about planes, except they fly. Why would a plane just”fall apart” after attempting to land? What pilot would attempt to land a plane with all the heads of state aboard in a bad fog? It just seems awful handy that all these people were in the same plane. Either a bad judgment call by all or Murder most evil.
jetstream commented:
This sent chills up my spine when I heard. I agree with the commenter here, this is just too convenient for the Russians. And KGB, now Prime Minister, Putin leading the investigation! Leaping to conclusions? Conspiracy theory? Possibly, but all too believable. Everything seems so neat and tidy, benefiting a coup.
Obama reneging on his promise of the missile defense shield. Signing of the START treaty with Russia who warned that a missile defense shield would negate the treaty with the US. Snubbing of the Czech president in his own country two days before, and an accident that could happen to him too. Top government leaders all on one plane. A first time ever reconciliation gesture offered by the Russians for their murdering of Poles in WWII.
Questions
- Did the plane run out of fuel or was it having mechanical malfunctions?
- Why wouldn’t Poland be involved in the investigation or at least insist on recovering the bodies and black boxes themselves?
- Why would the Russians want to reconcile with the Poles by bringing attention to Russian brutality in WWII? To what advantage?
My deepest sympathies to the families of the deceased and to the Polish people who have fought so hard against communism. May they stay strong and united through the difficult days ahead.
John commented:
I am saddened by much on this Easter Saturday: a tragic airplane crash and death of so many in Polish societal leadership; more saddened by the assumption of conspiracy and the distrust which breeds destruction. Planes ‘fall apart’ when they hit trees short of runways. (Note trees in backgrounds); 20 year old planes, flown too much when governments do not have (or use) the resources necessary to properly maintain or replace an aging fleet, crash; pilots make foolish mistakes of judgment (poor training, arrogance or stupidity) as witnessed by the Continental commuter plane crash not far from the Buffalo NY airport in February 2009 as a pilot flies too slow with extended flaps. pulls the nose up and nose dives because he is overtired and hasn’t been paying attention. Will someone soon be saying that God is somehow behind this as a “punishment” for something the people of Poland have or have not done? Are conspiratorial theories just a projection of people’s self-trust issues? Tragic accidents happen. There are near misses and avoided tragedies which never make the news. And when you charge conspiracy are you giving credit to someone for being much smarter than they really are? Sad Easter Saturday, indeed.
Valerie commented:
Troll alert:
Robert
April 10th, 2010 | 9:55 am | #26
jetstream commented:
Not to worry John. I don’t think anyone here has determined that this is a conspiracy. Only that accumulated events could apply to a conspiracy and many questions need to be answered. If they are answered satisfactorily, no conspiracy.
Opaobie commented:
Too many unanswered questions, and too many coincidences, but it could be just a terrible tragedy. What a perfect result for the Russians, and Obama. Why would the pilot try several landing attempts at a field that had been closed because visibility was zero, or did they put him into an impossible situation by running him too low on fuel to reach an alternate and then closing the field? You don’t suppose his middle name was Hussein or Abdul….. Anybody remember Ron Brown?
…good thing the Israelis have their own airline and security and keep both in proper working order.
sybilll commented:
A plane *fell apart*? And, Putin is in charge of the investigation? It’s not that one of these things just don’t belong here, it’s that none of these things just don’t belong here.
Herkybird commented:
@Jayne on the left coast
I know a lot about airplanes, so let me offer some observations that might answer your questions…
Why would a pilot attempt to land in the bad fog?
Because your boss – the President – doesn’t want to go to Moscow or Minsk, he want to go to Smolensk.
Why would a plane just fall apart?
It didn’t. It hit the trees.
Why would it do that?
Frequently it’s because the pilot – having made three previous attempts at landing says something like, “You know, we’re gettin’ a little low on fuel and I think I saw the lights on that last approach. Let’s go a little lower this time and take a peek.”
But the story says the airport was closed!
“Closed” is a term of art meaning the visibility is below approach minimums – say 1/2 mile for an old Tuplolev. Assuming they were going into a military field there’s a good chance they had GCA available (Ground Control [Radar] Approach.) The radar controllers can guide an aircraft to a safe landing even if the weather is Zero/Zero.
How do you know this?
Because I did a couple of dozen GCAs using Russian controllers going into Dushanbe, Tajikistan before we had a base at Bishkek to use for our Afghanistan operations. The Russian-trained controllers were excellent at their jobs.
This wouldn’t happen to an American plane!
A similar thing happened to a USAF Boeing 737 carrying Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown into Dubrovnik in 1996.
Oh that. Well, I know a guy, who knows a guy, who has a friend who worked in the BX at an Air Force Base and he heard…
Let me give you a piece of advice that an old Admiral once gave me: “Never look for conspiracy where you’re only going to find incompetence.”
jetstream commented:
I think John #37 is a concern troll. He’s “saddened”, he references “God” and “punishment”, and he calls today “Easter Saturday.”
Opaobie commented:
Herkybird, good points, but “closed” is also an official term that means no landings are allowed. Landing at a closed field can get you a violation. Was the plane Cat I or Cat II or Cat III capable? Could it have made a GPS approach (if it was capable and had an approach plate for the destination field). Only “zero zero” certified aircraft are allowed to land in “zero ceiling, zero visibility” conditions. Too many unknowns to speculate further.
Opaobie commented:
jetstream, for someone living a “Groundhog Day” life, maybe today is still “Easter Saturday”.
Herkybird commented:
Opaobie – Do you think any field is closed the the President, or than any bureaucrat is going to violate the pilot of the presidential plane?
As far as I know, there are no zero/zero certified aircraft. The closest was the Lockheed Tristar at Cat-IIIC.
A GPS approach only gets you non-precision minimums.
But you’re right, not enough facts are known. Everyone is guessing. Me included.
W. L. Roy commented:
Tragically all we get from Russia is everlasting enmity, trash, and computer viruses. Wonder if Putin travels on their regular airline fare. Don’t ask.
jetstream commented:
Opaobie, you’re right, your guess is as good as anyone’s. All we are doing is asking the kinds of questions that need to be answered. From a person I consulted who is a veteran multi-licensed flight instructor and radio communications professional of many years, comes these points:
The airport guidance system antenna sends signals to approaching aircraft so the airplane can remain on the proper glide slope during instrument landings. That signal can easily be interfered with accidentally or on purpose. It has happened by accident in the past when the signal was deflected by a truck parked in front of the antenna that sends the signals to the aircraft. Or the signal can be manipulated by the control tower in a variety of ways including adjusting the signal power or frequency.
So it is not improbable that this could be an accident, just as it is not improbable that this could be purposeful.
jetstream commented:
One other point. Why is this accident being called “pilot error” without any evidence and before the wreckage has even stopped smoking on the ground?
Beth commented:
Look, the leadership of the polish church, all four branches of its military, its heads of banking, the president -all taken out in one flight.
No, seriously, it needs to be looked at. Poland has just been decapitated and Putin is going to “personally” oversea the investigation? He also just “personally” asked the Polish PM to “unify.”
This is bad.
ahem commented:
“John”, er, Mr Axelrod, you need two more weeks in Cinncinnati; your act stinks.
Joanne commented:
Poland was in the way – the means justify the end. I wouldn’t trust Russia, even for one second; especially with Putin at the helm. Everything is starting to fall about big time, and America is busy chasing its tail. Gee, if I was Putin, I’d be a damn fool not to take advantage of the lack of leadership and conviction in America’s dimwit…Obama.
firewifem commented:
I concur; this struck me as more than an accident when I read it. My prayers are with the Polish people and Europe.
jetstream commented:
There’s some very interesting weather and technical information at Lame Cherry’s blog:
http://tinyurl.com/yekv6c3
Brad commented:
My first thought was, why in God’s name were so many of Poland’s leaders all on the same plane? But as I read more of the story I saw that the plane was the Polish equivalent of Air Force One. The aircraft was the official plane of the Polish President, so no wonder the leaders were all packed together.
As highly suspicious as I first was when hearing this news, I’m afraid the fault ultimately lies with decisions taken by Poles. The decision to continue using the outdated Tu-154 aircraft, and the decision to force a landing at a fogged in destination.
This is a horrible tragedy for Poland, and my condolences to all Poles everywhere for the loss they have suffered.
jetstream commented:
From Lame Cherry:
…As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.
Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots “ignored” Russian directions.
Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.
That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.
…The condition of “fog” should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading…
jetstream commented:
So, what’s Tiger Woods been up to?
jetstream commented:
No disrespect intended in #59 on this tragedy for Poland and freedom loving people everywhere. That’s a crack at the media who are ignoring this story but have plenty to say about Tiger Woods. Why aren’t they covering this and asking questions? The seem to just be accepting what the Russian’s have told them. Here’s more information on the TU-154 aircraft from Lame Cherry:
http://tinyurl.com/ycfo9py
Stuart commented:
Given the, so far, lack of information on the details of this crash I am not yet willing to blame anyone for this tragedy. It may, indeed, be one of those “black swan” events that punctuate history. However, I do not doubt for a moment that Putin will take advantage of it in any way possible. Let us watch closely. An accident? probably. Assassination possibly, time will tell.
wanumba commented:
Rule No. 1: The media is worthless. Recent reminder: An assembled pack of high tech journalists and their crews were reporting that Ft. Hood was under an attack by several gunmen. Hours and hours it took to finally clarify it had been ONE guy.
Can’t make ANY INFORMED determination at the moment since the reporting stinks. Just stinks. The media has this stupid in-house competition to be the FIRST to BREAK the news, so they break RUMORS rather than serve the public well by getting a proper report with actual facts, BEFORE blah-blabbing on air.
Cannibalism in New Orleans?
Opaobie commented:
Herkybird #46, yes to both questions if circumstances warrant it. Nevertheless, they should NEVER allow themselves to get into a situation where there are no options left but to land. You MUST have a Plan B and a Plan C and as many backups as necessary. With that many super high level dignitaries, nothing less is acceptable.
I would tell the President we cannot land here if, in my judgment, conditions were unsafe beyond my ability to assure a safe landing. Only if the plane was unflyable or out of fuel or some other condition made it the last and only hope would I try a landing under those circumstances, and even then I might opt to find an open field and crash land on MY terms, with no obstructions to deal with. I have a better chance of walking away alive from a Flight Evaluation Board than I do a crash in fog. A pilot who would risk the life of the President under those circumstances, knowing better than the President what was possible and what was not and what was prudent and what was suicide, should be grounded. I am NOT prejudging or condemning the pilots; I don’t have all the facts. I am only saying what I would do given the sparse information I have to go on. I have told Wing Commanders and Air Division Commanders that very thing with no negative repercussions. Nobody wants to die needlessly just to land at a particular field. So you divert and are late to whatever shindig you were going to; it beats the alternative. If you’re dead in the wreckage along the perimeter, you may be there on time, but it becomes moot at that point.
We don’t have enough information to state a cause, but if what has been reported about the conditions at the field are accurate, the preliminary listing of “Pilot error” may be based on an assumption that the pilots used poor judgment trying to land in impossible conditions after more than one failed attempt. I’ve investigated some where what we call “get-home-itis” was the primary cause. The pilot wanted to land at that field (usually homebase after a long flight and away from home for a long time) and was not going to give up if it killed him…which it did.
Kevin commented:
I’m with the rest of you, this is not the whole story that we’re being told. Instead of repeating what others have already said, let me add that I once had a friend tell me something after the Soviet Union “fell apart”.
“This isn’t the end of the Soviet Union. They’re still in business, just in smaller country, and operating under another name”.
I finally understand what he meant.
James commented:
And just one day before Divine Mercy Sunday. God have mercy on their poor souls.
Andreas K. commented:
I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I find the “timing” of this accident somewhat strange.
ogee commented:
This sounds just like oconman’s M.O. This is something he would do. This is terrible. There are no coincidences. We may never know the real facts. This is too fishy. Is Oconman involved too?
tennismom commented:
What good can come of this?
Maybe the Russian fingerprints on this tragedy will motivate US Senators not to ratify the nuke reduction treaty.
jetstream commented:
#66 Andreas K.
You are not a conspiracy theorist just because you have questions.
A conspiracy theorist has already decided what the facts are and is convinced of a certain outcome, or theory.
Thoughtful people gather as much information as possible from the most reliable sources, establish what is fact from opinion through cross-checking, and keep asking questions until enough facts are known to form their own opinion. Then they keep on asking more questions.
Unfortunately, too many of us accept the definitions, representations, and labels thrown at us by the perpetual name-callers and dogmatic followers doing their leaders’ bidding.
(My opinion, of course.)
Joanne commented:
Well one thing is for sure – Putin wouldn’t bother downing Air Force One given the chance, because he couldn’t have it better with dumb*ss Obama office.
Valaki commented:
All you fact seekers, please remember where the ‘facts’ are coming from: Russian sources.
Kaczynski was an outspoken critic of Russian expansion and, two years ago, a proponent of quick adoption of missile shield. Tusk, Sikorski and other of his opponents, dragged their feet, hiding behind ‘negotiatios’ for better conditions for Poland… They accused Kaczynski of ‘selling out to the US’. As a result, Poland got no missile shield. Who was the beneficiary? Russia.
The president’s plane has an accident near Smolensk. Who is the beneficiary? Russia.
None of Kaczynski’s political opponents were on that plane.
Coincidence?
You fact seekers tell me.
Raph commented:
May I ask why on earth would anyone belive a word that comes from Russian souces? These are known assassins, liars and KGB graduates. They control the media, the airline industry, the flight controlers, the investigators (Putin is the lead investigator) and the investigation. Everything from them is suspect.
Russia was apologizing. Does anyone, least of all Russia and or putin like to apologize? No. Does this fit putin’s personal sense of irony and retribution. You bet it does.
Chris commented:
Posts 71 & 72 are very true.
From the crash site photos and video, it appears that the field was definitely below minimums. From what I have read, the field is not even equipped with an ILS. Additionally, I have not been able to find an approach plate for this field, so I do not know if it even has a GPS approach.
Some reports state that there is confusion regarding the whether or not the pilot only flew one approach or three approaches to the field. Some reports say that he only flew one approach and was initiating missed approach procedures, when the aircraft struck the trees.
I find it hard to believe that the pilot, even if he was being pressured to land at the field, would try to make a fourth non-precision approach into a weather occluded field. Would any of you fly into an unfamiliar field, where it appears that the field has only non-precision nav-aids, Flying it down to 100ft AGL, without the field in sight? If you said “yes”, then you are either crazy or a liar. You would not go below 500ft. AGL, when flying into an unfamiliar field without precision nav-aids.
Why would Putin put himself in-charge of the investigation? Like others have mentioned, why would you give these folks the benefit of the doubt? Putin is no aviation expert, but he was in charge of the KGB, thus making him an expert at illusions.
There are still too many facts to come out about this accident, but sadly, with Putin’s hand on the investigation, the truth may never come the light of day. Remember, Reagan is not in the White House these days. We do not have Reagan to put the pressure on Putin nor do we even have a viable information network to confirm or deny the truth of the matter. Take a look at the terms of the latest arms treaty between the U.S. and Russia, we are being sold down the river. Russia is giving up nothing, where our national defense is completely compromised.
Kendra commented:
While I wouldn’t trust the Russians any further than I could throw one, I spoke to someone who knew several who were on that plane. He believes they most likely insisted on trying to land closer to the ceremony rather than several hours further away. Add that to Russian incompetence and lack of regulations (no US pilot would have done that) and you have a huge tragedy that Russia will jump to take advantage of.
bg commented:
++
foggy= the Polish Leader and 95 Others
Dead in Russia Plane Crash as reported..
pictures & film of fog at airport, quite clear..
==
Chris commented:
Reports stated the field was “CLOSED”. When a field is “closed”, that does not mean the pilot can land at his own peril, it means the field is closed to any further air ops, pending further instructions from the controlling authority.
When you have a field that is “closed”, the controlling authorities do not give you the option of landing, they do not say, “well its your neck buddy, land if you must, but it will be your life”. The field is “closed” for everyone’s safety. When they close a field, they do not want some idiot trying to feel his way down to the deck, where the pilot flying into the blind, slams into a row of houses, a ramp full of aircraft, a school house or even the tower.
It is hard to swallow that a pilot with this guys experience would even consider shooting a “Visual” approach below most “Instrument” approach minimums. And to do it three or four times is a stretch. For one, anybody riding as a pax would be more scared sh**less than the crew. Can you imagine what it would be like in the back of this airplane on approach, if the pilots were trying several landing attempts, they would have been “yo-yo-ing” the throttles sooooo much, after one attempt, the brass in the back would have threatened to hang him if he tried another attempt.
Like I previously said, this field did not even have an ILS, no localizer, I doubt if it had a VOR/DME system and if anything may have had an ADF/NDB at best. To shoot an essentially visual approach into this field with a ceiling below 100ft AGL, this would be complete lunacy.
Surely, the crew received a weather briefing for their arrival time at the destination air field. Additionally, should the need arise, they noted a couple alternate fields on their flight plan. As their flight was only a couple hours in duration, the weather at the destination field was probably like that all day, no change since the crew received their weather briefing in Poland prior to departure.
It would not be difficult for Russian controllers to purposely mislead this crew into flying into the ground. It could go something like this:
On approach to the field, the crew at some arbitrary distance, let’s say 100 nautical miles out, contacts approach control. Approach control gives them a heading and altitude to fly, also giving them the local altimeter setting. Approach control also advises the crew that there is a no ceiling and there is no localizer or ILS approach, but if the crew wanted to land, the field is equipped and manned for PAR/GCA approaches, that is, field personnel trained in ground controlled approaches will be able to talk the crew down to another arbitrary height, usually about 300 ft. AGL.
The crew agrees to a GCA approach, where do to receiving purposely erroneous altimeter settings, is purposely guided into the ground. It is not until they are 2 nautical miles out, away from the runway threshold, that the crew starts to see and hear trees smashing into the wind screen and wings. At that point, the aircraft commander throws the throttles to the firewall, screaming “gear up!”. The co-pilot is already lifting the landing gear lever and before he can look down to his control yoke to view the approach plate(published landing notes and instructions) clipped to the yoke, it is too late for him to start reading off, or telling the pilot the missed approach procedures. The plane engines try to spool up, but the sink rate is too much for the plane to climb out before smacking the ground.
The pilot and co-pilots commands, pleas and prayers are like a tree that has fallen in a primordial forest, they are not heard, because no one is around to hear them; that is nobody accept….
Tell me, who would be monitoring these frequencies? The field was allegedly closed, so any in-bound traffic would be on another frequency. Maybe nobody told the Polish crew that the field was closed. Who gained the most from this plane crash? Why is it that the person that gained the most from this crash is also the self appointed Inspector General?
The scenario that I illustrated in my above example is child’s play compared to most other acts of deceit and espionage created and acted upon by the KGB. Of course, my fellow fat, dumb and happy American countrymen do not know of many of the tricks used by the KGB, just to keep the citizens contained in the Soviet Union.
You fools think that if you close your eyes and pretend, evil will cease to exist. You think that there are no conspiracies or at least they rarely take place. You are so stupid, you do not know of the gulf of Tonkin Incident, The U.S.S. Maine, The Bay of Pigs, you think Kennedy was shot by Oswald alone and one bullet hit both Connally and Kennedy. Did you ever hear of the Reichstag? The list goes on and on, the only conspiracy you may willing believe, is the Watergate Burglary, but yet, you probably do not recognize that as a conspiracy. Yeah, Nixon was the only one who was paranoid and took extreme measures to maintain control; tell that to Vince Foster and Ron Brown!
Chris commented:
Sorry about all of the typos and grammatical errors of my previous post(#77), but it was late at night when I posted it; but nonetheless, I stand by the content of my message, orchestrating such events, where the crash looks accidental, but where actors set up a trap, where the Polish pilots took the bait, is very conceivable and simple. Compared to previous schemes by Soviet administrations, the cover-up would be equally simple and elementary.
Am I saying schemes, lies and cover-ups are the sole province of Soviet style regimes? No, we are naive to think that our government has some sort of pristine reputation regarding the virtues of truth and transparency. Today, since the end of WWII, our government has used the idea of a “Free Press”, to sell lies to and convince the American People that all is above board in the land of Liberty. Most American people believe, that if it is on the network news, it is gospel and the news anchors are as truthful as their grandparents.
The truth of the matter is, the propaganda machine in America, is as refined and better than that of Goebbels’ in WWII Nazi Germany.
Our phony two party system is far more sophisticated than that of the old Soviet Union. At least the Soviet People realized that the two candidates in the election were both Communist Party members and that there was not a lick of difference between them. The majority of Americans still do not realize that on a national level, the two party system is a sham and that both parties have been corrupted towards the end of national sovereignty and the establishment of a one-world-totalitarian government.
Whenever I confront a family member or friend about the Republican or Democrat they support, they invariably retort, at least so and so is better than so and so. I then ask them, if you had a choice between Stalin or Hitler, which one would they vote for. Of course, they reply with a resounding, “I would not vote for either!”. Then I explain, that all of our presidential candidates are pawns and puppets, each playing a role, incrementally moving us towards a global government, where constitutional rights are considered sinful, selfish and against the state religion. Today, if certain world leaders told their flock to jump off a cliff, the flock would leap while their leaders picked their pockets while they went over the side.