IRS Commissioner Shulman: Buy Obamacare Or Lose Your Tax Refund
Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 6:13 AM
IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman told reporters yesterday at the National Press Club that the government plans on punishing those who don’t purchase government health care by confiscating their tax refunds.
The Daily Caller reported:
Individuals who don’t purchase health insurance may lose their tax refunds according to IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. After acknowledging the recently passed health-care bill limits the agency’s options for enforcing the individual mandate, Shulman told reporters that the most likely way to penalize individuals that don’t comply is by reducing or confiscating their tax refunds.
Speaking at the National Press Club on Monday, Shulman downplayed the IRS’s role in enforcing the recent overhaul of the health insurance industry by claiming the agency would not aggressively target individuals who don’t purchase coverage. He noted that the health-care bill expressly forbids the agency from freezing bank accounts, seizing assets or pursuing criminal charges, but when pressed said the IRS would most likely use tax refund offsets to penalize those that don’t comply with the mandate. The IRS uses refund offsets to collect from individuals that owe the federal government a delinquent debt.
“These are not the kinds of things we send agents out about,” Shulman said. “These are things where you get a letter from us. Congress was very careful to make sure there was nothing too punitive in this bill.”
Many reports have claimed that enforcement of the individual mandate will be non-existent, but Shulman’s answers indicate differently. According to BusinessWeek, starting in 2015 Americans who don’t purchase insurance will be subject to a fine of $325 and that sum increases to $695 in 2016. However, the commissioner seemed confident that in most cases individuals would either receive subsidies to purchase insurance or simply do so on their own in order to comply with the law.
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Published May 24, 2012 at 8:46 pm - 83 Comments
truth teller commented:
Biting the hand that feeds???
Does not sound like a smart strategy.
down with dems commented:
“Congress was very careful to make sure there was nothing too punitive in this bill.”
—
Forcing citizens to purchase a product (not across state lines!) that is approved by government or else pay a fine/tax is the definition of punitive. Either way, the citizen is out money, and in one of those two scenarios has nothing to show for it, and in the other has something that may not be wanted or ever used.
newton commented:
I have two choice words for this “Commissioner.”
Two words that are too strong for this family blog.
Let’s just say that someone will hear this and say, “Bring it on! I’ll see you in court!”
Stuart commented:
…And if you don’t buy a G.M. car as well, we’re going to withhold your refund …and put you on double secret probation!
garrettc commented:
The natural result of this policy will encourage individuals to increase deductibles and pay taxes on the 15th, thereby reducing the capital cushion that the government gains from getting taxes ahead of time. there will be no excess to refund and no refund to confiscate. Like many people, I have set up an account in a third bank for dealing with the government. It is from that (minimal) account that I pay my taxes. So the government will have to float their own loans at higher cost, due to the excessive national debt. Oh well. Elections do have consequences.
mike commented:
Don’t let them use your money anyway. People get so excited about getting their own money back.
noislamocommie commented:
I wonder if a “particularized injury” is not hit upon soon enough via just such IRS witholding that the difficulty will be in getting this measure overturned.
More great historical research on “Natural Born Citizen” popping up…
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/important-new-twist-in-natural-born-citizen-history-at-post-email/
nickless commented:
So I reduce withholding to leave me with a liability of $0.00. Bureaucrats can’t think one step ahead, can they?
Brian commented:
The simple fix for avoiding the fine would be to claim 9 dependents on your W4 form (up to 9 is legal) for 1 month of the year.
One month of large paychecks = no tax return.
Texmom commented:
Oh, my….I think they forgot to bring this out before the vote.
shibumi commented:
I usually don’t get a tax refund.
So I’m cool, right?
/idiots
bill-tb commented:
Maybe you should max out your deductions about now? Just in case.
MochaLite commented:
“Nothing too punitive”. As if the entire progressive income tax isn’t punitive! As if running a system that forces people to either spend innumberable hours or good money paying someone else to do it isn’t punitive.
Shulman, back up a bit and observe your own irony!
Opaobie commented:
All that’t missing is the SS arm band and the “Sieg Heil!” salute.
Tammy commented:
Change your withholding form and you get to keep your money throughout the year. Then you don’t get a refund because you keep your own money. bill-tb is right. If you get a refund now, go to your boss or HR person and ask to change your withholding TODAY.
If everyone did this, the Government would go broke.
Screw ‘em!
czekmark commented:
“Shulman downplayed the IRS’s role in enforcing the recent overhaul of the health insurance industry by claiming the agency would not aggressively target individuals who don’t purchase coverage.”
And for this, the IRS needs 16,000 more agents?? Hmmm… Something doesn’t compute.
As someone already commented ‘DON’T OVERPAY YOUR TAXES’. For those that don’t know, you can say specifically what dollar amount will be withheld from your paycheck.
Chisum commented:
BAY STATE CASSANDRA
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2010/04/06/bay-state-cassandra.php
Chisum commented:
ObamaCare: So Much For Keeping Your Existing Health Insurance
What was that about keeping your existing health insurance policy under ObamaCare? That’s kinda hard to do when it no longer exists. This is what Change! looks like.
A starting revelation on the Scott Hennen Show today from Rod St. Aubyn, Director of Government Relations for Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Dakota. St. Aubyn notes that under Obamacare, all polices offered in North Dakota must be approved by the Secretary of Health and Human Services and that this approval process will force BCBS to reduce its insurance offerings from over fifty different policies…to four….
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2010/04/obamacare-so-much-for-keeping-your-existing-health-insurance.html
sliderblaze commented:
posted that on my facebook today, been getting texted on the iphone like crazy today. on a lighter note, video of Independents leaving the democratic party i spliced together today for my first youtube video posting…fitting. lol i end it on the best note possible!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8zHsRU4WSw
Chisum commented:
Wasserman Schultz On Taxes And ObamaCare
Rep Wasserman Schultz didn’t much care for the reception she received at a townhall on ObamaCare and the economy. I found her answer on the mandate question especially annoying. About 7 minutes into this video going around she was asked what gave Congress the authority to mandate health insurance for everyone.
She said there is no such mandate, … you just suddenly find your way into a different tax bracket if you don’t buy it. That seems like a pretty clear admission of the progressive Democrat’s willingness to use the tax code to compel whatever individual behavior they would like. Given that precedent, it seems to me they can then use it to all but force Americans to do whatever Congress decides. How do you like that new GM car you just bought to avoid a highertax bracket, America? Please. What a transparent ploy to try and end run the mandate question.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2010/04/wasserman-schultz-on-taxes-and-obamacare.html
clarity commented:
This will be all you need to kick the Dems out for a long, long time. Page 331 of the bill says that there will be NO ENFORCEABLE PENALTY for failing to buy insurance from a corporation.
bg commented:
++
for those still claiming the IRS cannot enforce penalties, please
read carefully (& don’t be afraid to use a dictionary if need be)..
[`(g) Administration and Procedure-
`(1) IN GENERAL- The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.
`(2) SPECIAL RULES- Notwithstanding any other provision of law--
`(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES- In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
`(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES- The Secretary shall not--
`(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
`(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.'.]
CBO Says Govt to Collect $69 Billion in Tax Penalties From
Health Care Law’s Insurance Mandate in First 10 Years
OBAMA CARE PASSED IN STIMULUS BILL
H.R.3590
H.R.3590 Table of Contents
H.R.3590 Became Public Law No: 111-148
Public Laws: Senate Bills – 3/23/2010
best ‘in a nutshell’ explanation i’ve come across:
people shall not be subject to criminal prosecutions or penalties for failing to pay the taxes due as a result of not meeting the requirements of the individual mandate.
Sen. Reid H.R. 3590
[Exceptions to the requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage are made for religious objectors, individuals not lawfully present, and incarcerated individuals. Exemptions from the penalty would be made for those who cannot afford coverage (if the full premium of the lowest cost option is greater than 8% of income), taxpayers with income under 100% of FPL, and certain others. Those for whom premiums would be more than 8% of income would be allowed to purchase a young adult catastrophic policy regardless of age. Amends the Internal Revenue Code to require the reporting of health insurance coverage.]
iow: these people are among the exempt:
Amish, Muslims, Criminals serving time..
same people are also exempt from Obama’s “Ready Reserve Corps”..
==
olm commented:
On the bright side, an unintended consequence here is going to be something I dearly love. Watch tax revenues plummet.
Scott M commented:
Woopty-freakin’-doo.
Anyone in the middle-class with half a brain and a little patience can configure their taxes to get back as little refund as possible while owing nothing. This is the only viable way for most Americans to avoid playing the part of dupes by giving the government months to collect interest on their money.
Militant Conservative commented:
garrettc
April 6th, 2010 | 12:19 pm | #5
Don’t over pay. DITTO’s to ya’ll, I’ll owe them.
It’s MY MONEY EARNED WITH MY SWEAT AND LABOR.
Sojourner commented:
..Drone Schulman’s words have a familiar ring to them..
from Atlas Shrugged:
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?”… We want them broken….
We’re after power and we mean it.
You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it.
There’s no way to rule innocent men.
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?
What’s there in that for anyone?
But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be enforced nor objectively interpreted—
and you create a nation of law-breakers—
and then you cash in on guilt.
Now that’s the system, Mr Rearden, that’s the game,
and once you understand it,
you’ll be much easier to deal with.
bg commented:
++
re: bg #25
let me try for that H.R.3590 Table of Contents link again..
okay, in case it doesn’t work, copy,
paste & google any of the following:
H.R.3590 Table of Contents
Patient Protection and Affordable
Care Act (Amendment in Senate)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3590.as:
==
Ripped commented:
Even if you aren’t owed a refund you will be taxed for the amount of the fine. I do think it’s a great idea that everyone claim excess withholding. Bleed the beast.
eaglewingz08 commented:
I guess someone should call up Rep. Weinie’s office (D-NY) to give him the news that the IRS knows more about the enforcement provisions of this monstrous legislation that the supposed authors.
Opaobie commented:
Be careful fooling with your W-4. Get professional tax advice. There is also a penalty for UNDERPAYMENT, so if you don’t meet a certain target amount withheld or paid in based on your actual tax liability when you file, there is a penalty. Quarterly payments also have to meet a minimum.
The whole tax code needs to be scrapped and replaced with something that is fair and legal, not just a control mechanism for behavior modification and social engineering…and making crooked politicians fabulously wealthy and powerful.
Sojourner commented:
..as of today: The List of 159 Commi/ttees formed by ObieCare:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2487770/posts
d_fitz commented:
Dear Mr Shulman,
If you want to become the face of Obamacare, feel free. Folks are looking to put a face on the enemy of freedom, so go ahead and appoint yourself as head enforcer.
Chisum commented:
THE PARABLE OF THE REFEREE
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/06/the-parable-of-the-referee/
bertogem commented:
Get out your W-4s and sharpen your calculators!
Tax refund? What tax refund?
Once again, “they” are either dim-wits, or think we are.
No Man commented:
But, but, but
bwian said the IRS cannot enforce the fines and, etc.
Many people won’t have any job.
If you still have a job. Make it so the gubmint doesn’t hold your money.
Go to HR and ask them what are the max exemptions you can claim. Then, put that number on your brand new Form W-4.
If you pay quarterly estimated taxes, low ball them.
Solaratov commented:
Didn’t one of the little “concern” trolls try to tell us a couple of nights ago that there would “be no enforcement” of the penalties for not falling into line and buying health insurance?
Maybe s/he/it will drop back in and explain how this doesn’t *actually* mean what it says; and that Shulman “probably didn’t understand the question”- or something.
Hint, trolls: Sooner or later, THE TRUTH WILL OUT!!
tnxplant commented:
This assumes everyone is stupid enough to qualify for a tax refund by making an interest-free loan to the federal government. What are they going to do, force everyone to have massive amounts withheld?
Scott Wiggins commented:
A government that acts without conscience or principle will reap what it sows…
Sojourner commented:
..on limited government:
Milton Friedman
..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XJetXkG5uw
..Ronald Reagan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Sb4RtFkmo
…Paul Ryan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwk1aHU-pms
..http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Jim commented:
Small business people and the self employed need to take heed and do what I do. Stash your tax money at quarterly time and do not touch it. Pay no quarterlies, then come tax time, pay your taxes then, exactly what you owe and not a penny more. You won’t get a refund but you won’t be financing them interest free either. If everyone that has control of their own fate did this it would cripple their intake of tax dollars.
drjohn commented:
Come on, guys. They can withhold all of $695??
Wow.
It costs a whole lot more than that for a a health insurance policy.
The IRS cannot add liens, cannot seize anything, cannot criminalize non-payment and cannot charge interest.
This is the all time bargain. You need not buy insurance until you become ill, and you cannot be refused.
This was carefully designed to result in the destruction of the private health insurance industry.
Scott Wiggins commented:
So, the Feds will collect fines from the millions of illegals and lowlifes living off their welfare queens how exactly??? They don’t file tax returns, they are part of the, wink wink, cash economy…The only people who will pay fines are the usual suspects, honest, hardworking American families who are trying their best to survive this economy. They won’t get subsidies because they actually work…And, they won’t be able to afford insurance anyway. Of course, the lowlifes that populate the medicaid roles and don’t work a lick, have children like you change shirts will magically continue getting Medicaid or will have their insurance paid thru subsidies…Let’s keep rewarding lowlifes or feeding stray dogs as the Lt Governor of SC recently said, “when you feed stray dogs, you don’t fix the problem, you get more of the same…
Scott Wiggins commented:
Obama is the most out of touch, juvenile, jackass we have ever had in the Whitehouse…This guy couldn’t run a lemonade stand and we are allowing this man-child to tinker with a fourteen trillion dollar economy. One that is very sick by the way…We are being led by the criminally stupid, voted in by folks fooled by the words of a madman…God help us!
Jo commented:
OBAMANAZI = pay for obamacare or lose house, car, bank account/savings and go to jail.
Scott Wiggins commented:
Let’s keep pushing for meaningful tort reform…Obama has covered for the trial lawyers in this healtcare takeover…You will never have affordable healthcare when doctors have to pay ten thousand a month for malpractice insurance…You will never have affordable insurance as long as billions are paid out to trial lawyers and litigants…The insurance companies and trial lawyers are locked in a desperate battle with the public paying the bills. Obama has just tied the hands of the insurance companies…Capping rates on insurance companies without tort reform will kill the profit motive and turn them into zombie companies like GM…Rates will not go down however as reduced incentives will destroy the efficiency of these companies…It is a fraud, perpetrated by the conspiracy of Marxists in our government and their useful idiots in the media…
Elizabeth Seymour commented:
Shulman’s IRS Tax Police To Enforce Health Care
http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=491
MLM411 commented:
I agree with previous commenters….just increase your withholdings. No free loans to the government; no one should be doing this. Who knows, one day the Federal Gov’t will be no different than New York or California and refuse to give back people’s refunds………
bg commented:
++
THE TROJAN UNACORN
==
Doug Edelman commented:
Take EVERY exemption you can on your W4, and do everything you can to reduce your withholdings to bare minimum. PLAN NOT to have a refund due to you (REMEMBER… a tax refund is simply the government’s repayment of an interest-free loan you’ve given them all year!!)
It is perhaps better to OWE a few hundred dollars at the end of the year, that you can plan and save for (EARNING interest!!) than to give the Feds a large withholding that IF YOU’RE LUCKY they’ll refund the excess of your ACTUAL tax liability (Note the states that are holding refunds ’cause they’re BROKE!!)
If I could, I’d refuse ALL withholdings and claim Exempt on W4… but unfortunately I cannot!
J commented:
I guess this means everyone should start claiming exempt.
Neotrotsky commented:
Yes, the little trolls did say they would not take “any enforcement” action
They also promised to make a youtube video if they were wrong, of them eating their underwear
We shall see