Confirmed: Media's Military-Hating America-Bashing Allegations Proven False & Misleading (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:51 PM
Today the Satanic Verses New York Times reported that a video posted at WikiLeaks shows a callous and fatal attack by American Apache Helicopter pilots on an innocent Reuters reporter who was working on a simple weightlifting story for the news service.
On the day of the attack, United States military officials said that the helicopters had been called in to help American troops who had been exposed to small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades in a raid. “There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force,” Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a spokesman for the multinational forces in Baghdad, said then.
But the video does not show hostile action. Instead, it begins with a group of people milling around on a street, among them, according to WikiLeaks, Mr. Noor-Eldeen and Mr. Chmagh. The pilots believe them to be insurgents, and mistake Mr. Noor-Eldeen’s camera for a weapon. They aim and fire at the group, then revel in their kills.
“Look at those dead bastards,” one pilot says. “Nice,” the other responds.
A wounded man can be seen crawling and the pilots impatiently hope that he will try to fire at them so that under the rules of engagement they can shoot him again. “All you gotta do is pick up a weapon,” one pilot says.
A short time later a van arrives to pick up the wounded and the pilots open fire on it, wounding two children inside. “Well, it’s their fault for bringing their kids into a battle,” one pilot says.
At another point, an American armored vehicle arrives and appears to roll over one of the dead. “I think they just drove over a body,” one of the pilots says, chuckling a little.
Reuters said at the time that the two men had been working on a report about weightlifting when they heard about a military raid in the neighborhood, and decided to drive there to check it out.
But, once again the facts don’t add up for the so-called paper of record…
The “innocent” Reuters reporter was hanging out with a pack of terrorists with grenade launchers and grenades who had just been involved in a battle with American troops.
The Jawa Report posted the undeniable evidence the state-run military-hating media did not want you to see.
Weapons Clearly Seen on Video of Reuters Reporters Killed in Iraq
If the vidcaps showing weapons at the scene of the alleged “murder” of “civilians” in Iraq weren’t enough to convince you, here’s an animated image created by Ryno.
(Hat Tip too Ryno, a commenter at The Jawa Report)
Well, what do ya know?… The terrorists were carrying weapons after all.
American Power has more on the bogus collateral murder story.
Bill Roggio wrote more on this latest democratic-media complex attack against the US military at The Weekly Standard Blog.
More… Doug Ross added: “Cleverly-edited video becomes anti-Military infomercial for world’s dumbest blogger and his traditional posse of useful idiots.”
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Published February 22, 2012 at 4:19 pm - 32 Comments
Dennis commented:
At about 3:30 you can see that they identify Noor-Eldein as two different people. The first time they identify him, you can see a man with a black strap over his right shoulder. Could be a camera. Just after that, another man with a black strap over his right shoulder and the first guy identified as the camera man behind him. Second guy appears to be carrying an AK-47 w/o a shoulder stock.
Chisum commented:
Thank you, Jim, for posting this.
Another MSM attempt to smear our troops. Epic Fail!
How many times do we have to refute their lies?
Mediocre President commented:
No word on whether any baby milk factories were destroyed during the shooting of that video.
Not Intimidated commented:
But the video does not show hostile action.
So what? The military didn’t claim that it did. The report is that there was hostile action before and after the video. Also, someone on the tape says that one of the insurgents is firing. We don’t see it, because the group is behind the building at the time.
Heck, Firedoglake–the most leftist blog in the universe–says the tape is BS:
I want to first start by saying that Wikileaks has really misled the public on the details of this video. They made it sound like it was an unprovoked massacre of unarmed civilians, and so it angers me when I wasted my time watching this video to see nothing like that.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/39215
This story will be gone in a day or two. It’s a transparent lie that only cretins and fanatics would believe.
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ebayer commented:
I watched this whole 35minute video on the “Wiki” website and gave the GI’s the benefit of the doubt.
You can hear the GI’s say they had been under fire and you see gunslings on a couple of these guys.
Thanks for the animated video by RYNO.
All I gotta say about the Reuters reporters.”Wrong place,wrong time”
MJ commented:
I know someone very close to me that was a sniper, and he has a hard time talking about what his job was. He made friends with an Iraqi who worked on the base, he found his Iraqi friend in pieces and body parts hanging on the fence every hundred feet because he was working with the Americans. This is the enemy, who will kill us at any chance or kill the innocent men and women of that country that want peace. The ones who publish this propraganda need to go over there and live with the enemy and they will find out just how warm and fuzzy our enemy is.
bill-tb commented:
Pointy headed baseball bats?
Valerie commented:
Chisum # 2
“How many times do we have to refute their lies?”
Every time.
And after that, you have to propose your own, positive solutions on the issues of banking regulation, mortgage regulation, regulation of health insurance, immigration, and national defense.
It’s a tall order, but it’s also a task that can be divided up. It’s doable.
chuck in st paul commented:
Al Reuters is infamous for this sort of crap. They hired a whole load of stringers in Iraq who just happened to be news pimps for the insurgents. Imagine that.
I also so-o-o-o-o (not) shocked that the Treason Times just front paged this crap without doing any verification beyond asking El Qaeda in Iraq their opinion. I believe Al Reuters said Al Jezzera verfied it for them.
Auntie Em commented:
Let’s just call The New York Times, WaPo, MSNBC, Good Morning America, Nightly News, ABC, CNN what they are: PROPAGANDA.
The only journalists anymore are the bloggers. The main stream media is BLOGGING.
The New York Times is less credible than the National Enquirer. LESS credible than the National Enquirer, which is MORE credible than the Huffington Post (I know, goes without saying).
The progressive mouthpieces are exposed, and anyone with an ounce of dignity will not validify them with the title of journalism. It’s propaganda. Free classified ads for the progressive movement.
HANOI JOHN KERRY commented:
Damn! I knew it was too good to be true, but that never stopped me before.
CNN just called and canceled my http://www.LIVESHOT.cc
I HATE THE INTERNET!
Marsh commented:
This is one of the reaons why I left the Left. They’re constantly trying to demonize America and our soldiers.
RealityCheck commented:
Where is the documentation that these folks were previously engaged with American forces?
How can another fellow human being condone needless slaugher of innocent bystanders?
How can another fellow human being condone the needless slaugher of innocent people attempting to provide medical attention to another wounded human being?
I support our troops but this “war” was based on a lie (no WMD’s) and over a million innocent Iraqis have died needlessly. It is possible to “support our troops” without mindlessly ignoring a war crime and devaluing other human lives.
SteveCan commented:
The left is very scared … Pretty obvious by the huge uptick of anti-_________ (fill in the blank with your choice of target) Propaganda on the web, TV and everywhere you turn.
Andreas K. commented:
I saw the video and my comment was: Urban warfare, what do you expect? Give the benefit of a doubt? And get your own people killed?
A friend of mine summed it up even better: “So?”
Solaratov commented:
bill-tb
April 6th, 2010 | 4:25 pm | #8
Pointy headed baseball bats?
That would be your Louisville Slugger, model RPG-7.
For those “explosive” line drives.
Not Intimidated commented:
Where is the documentation that these folks were previously engaged with American forces?
In the army’s report on the action.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/201889.php
How can another fellow human being condone needless slaugher of innocent bystanders?
That’s not what happened here. The gunships opened fire on an armed insurgent group that was setting up an ambush of ground forces.
How can another fellow human being condone the needless slaugher of innocent people attempting to provide medical attention to another wounded human being?
The van was not marked as an emergency vehicle, as required by international law. There was no way for the gunship crews to know if these were insurgent reinforcements attempting to rescue their comrades and recover their weapons. How often do civilians drive into a raging battle?
I support our troops but this “war” was based on a lie (no WMD’s) and over a million innocent Iraqis have died needlessly. It is possible to “support our troops” without mindlessly ignoring a war crime and devaluing other human lives.
Funny that you use the term “mindless” as you repeat two of the most senseless, fundamentally stupid accusations ever leveled at the United States.
Chisum commented:
“I support our troops but this “war” was based on a lie (no WMD’s) and over a million innocent Iraqis have died needlessly. It is possible to “support our troops” without mindlessly ignoring a war crime and devaluing other human lives.”
——————————————————
Please provide a link proving that “over a million innocent Iraqis died needlessly”. And please don’t cite the debunked Lancet study.
As fas as “No WMD’s” and “based on a lie”,
here’s a “reality check” for YOU.
http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2010/04/05/gwb-wmds-the-msm-and-bho/
and
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/26/round-4-wehner-vs-corn-on-bush-and-the-iraq-war/
Dipso Facto commented:
I support our troops but this “war” was based on a lie (no WMD’s) and over a million innocent Iraqis have died needlessly.
So, you support the troops who have killed over a million innocent people in defense of a lie. Makes perfect sense.
Militant Conservative commented:
Stay on target and do not take your eye off of what is importantl. I am going to the Atlanta TPM April 15th. That is the crucible and the result will be in November 2nd. Small but important skimishes in PA. and HI. powder is dry.
Solaratov commented:
A little better view of the RPG:
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/Mamba1-0/1192093449634pr8_2.jpg
Ares commented:
War is hell.
Meet my daughters: Terror and Panic.
Strong hatred defender of peoples.
RealityCheck commented:
I love America and don’t think our military is bad. That’s what I mean by “supporting our troops”. At the same time, I’m not willing to check my soul in at the door and support the slaughter of innocent people.
There is no evidence (that I am aware of) which convicts the men who were killed as “insurgents”. However, we DO know that two of the men not carrying weapons were carrying cameras with telephoto lenses. We DO know THEY were “innocent”.
If you watch the entire video, it was clear that the gunship crew was itching to wax the injured man crawling as he attempted to crawl away from the carnage. The gunner was asked if he could see if the crawling man had a gun… “no” was the response. Then under his breath, the gunner urged the injured man to find a weapon… absolutely blood-thirsty.
What if it was your brother… your friend… your father out there? Gunned down for nothing… would the “wrong place at the wrong time” mantra still hold water? These people’s lives were worth nothing to those soldiers and some of you here share the same sentiment.
Where is your humanity?
RealityCheck commented:
I do support our troops. I don’t necessarily support the policy. The troops should not be blamed for bad policy.
Not all of the troops have committed crimes against innocent civilians… those who are guilty of war crimes should be held accountable.
Jo commented:
OBAMANAZI kills millions each year in abortions.
Dipso Facto commented:
There is no evidence (that I am aware of) which convicts the men who were killed as “insurgents”. However, we DO know that two of the men not carrying weapons were carrying cameras with telephoto lenses. We DO know THEY were “innocent”.
Ah. You blithely ignore everything the military reported about this incident, because you’ve got a preconceived notion that these were “innocent Iraqis” and the men who killed them are war criminals.
Not a very impressive argument. You know what you know, even though professional warriors have evaluated what went on here and have concluded that you’re wrong.
What if it was your brother… your friend… your father out there? Gunned down for nothing… would the “wrong place at the wrong time” mantra still hold water? These people’s lives were worth nothing to those soldiers and some of you here share the same sentiment.
Actually, since the insurgents were setting up an ambush on approaching Coalition ground forces, the Mahdi Army members were gunned down for a very good reason: the defense of our troops.
Where is your humanity?
Seriously? A high-pitched, squealing appeal to “humanity”? That’s the best you can do?
Well, okay, then. I’ll explain my position so that even you can understand: Our troops did nothing wrong here. They fired on insurgents setting up an ambush. The reporters on the scene had done nothing to identify themselves as reporters. There was no way to tell them apart from the armed members of the Mahdi Army. They embedded with the enemy and were killed when they were mistaken for the enemy.
See, my brain hasn’t been turned to mush by my politics. I understand the reality of war. Members of the military kill the enemy. That’s their job. This isn’t some stupid James Cameron movie, in which warriors cry when they kill the enemy. I’m not offended that our troops take pleasure in neutralizing the enemy, especially since our troops have seen firsthand what the enemy does to Iraqi civilians.
But then again, you somehow believe that Bush lied about Saddam’s WMD, even though all he did was repeat the conclusions of the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate. For him to have lied, he would’ve had to have claimed that Saddam didn’t have WMD.
Apparently you don’t even know the definition of the verb “lie.” Incredible.
RealityCheck commented:
I did not say Bush lied. I did say the premise for invading Iraq was a lie. Someone (or a group of someones) wanted us in Iraq… and made sure we got there. I am not willing to accuse the President without proof.
Admittedly, this is the basis for my deep concern… we are fighting a preemptive, unecessary, unjust war (IMHO) and innocent people are being killed… and our sons and daughters are being sacrificed for the perpetuation of a political agenda… and I’m afraid we are loosing our nation’s soul in the process.
Ares commented:
The only innocent Iraqi I ever saw was dead.
K. Sibellius commented:
Exterminate all the guilty unborn!
opaobie commented:
This sort of slander against the American military isn’t new. Walter Cronkite and Dan Rather launched their careers doing it.
Learn a lot more about it at WinterSoldier.com so you can recognize the tactics when these Leftist America-haters use them today against our brave men and women in harm’s way defending THEIR right to commit this outrageous slander.
Dipso Facto commented:
I did not say Bush lied. I did say the premise for invading Iraq was a lie.
As I said, you don’t even know the definition of the verb “lie.” Every single western intelligence agency thought Saddam had stockpiles of WMD. You can make the argument that the invasion was based in part on a mistake, but to claim it was based on a lie is stupid and itself a lie.
and our sons and daughters are being sacrificed for the perpetuation of a political agenda… and I’m afraid we are loosing our nation’s soul in the process.
Well, since the people doing the actual fighting don’t think they’re “loosing” their souls, I’m not concerned about it, either. I generally don’t think in such melodramatic, drama-queeny terms anyway.
K. Sibellius commented:
” . . . we are losing our nation’s soul . . . ”
What year is it where you live, 1956?
What soul to lose? 45,000,000 exterminated unborn babies . . .
OOh? Exterminating millions unborn babies is a health care!
What soul?
RealityCheck commented:
K. Sibellius… I AGREE!!
Mike Mose commented:
The left takes aim at the Heroes of America, Heroes take aim at the fools in DC.
RealityCheck commented:
DipsoFacto,
You said, “Well, since the people doing the actual fighting don’t think they’re “loosing” their souls, I’m not concerned about it, either.”
Let’s see if you care when one of these thugs comes back and join your local police department. Try to keep your smug little grin when he considers YOU the “enemy” and a “domestic terrorist” because you don’t support this lawless government.
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, you just insulted returning vets. You don’t support the troops or the mission, you are just an America-hating troll. For the benefit of legitimate posters, why not identify yourself the way politicians do, with their “party affiliation” attached to their names.
RealityCheck (Troll)
RealityCheck commented:
Those who are quick to de-humanize the Iraqi people and lump all dark-skinned people into the category of “terrorist” or “potential terrorist”… one question… have you read the pending legislation entitled: S. 3081 “Enemy Belligerent Interrogation” – you might want to read up on this one: http://www.truthistreason.net/s-3081-enemy-belligerent-interrogation-a-sick-merry-go-round
The same policies and approach being used against the Iraqi people will soon be coming to a theater near you!
When this government considers YOU a “terrorist” or “potential terrorist”, (remember the MIAC report?) lets see how you like indefinite detention, rendition, raping children in front of their parents, waterboarding, etc…
RealityCheck commented:
I am not a troll. I am a registered independent voter and consider myself a conservative. I am a veteran. I love my country but fear my government.
Opaobie commented:
Then stop posting gibberish, Leftist talking points, and insults denigrating the military. Veteran? Which side were you on, or you one of the “Veterans AGAINST” types?
NC Cop commented:
“Let’s see if you care when one of these thugs comes back and join your local police department.”
Uh, just what the hell is that supposed to mean?
Chisum commented:
Reality Check,
I’m still waiting for that link that backs up your assertion that one million innocent Iraqis have been killed.
Oh and are you also asserting that our troops are raping children in front of their parents?
I think you are a troll, too. A particularly nasty one.
Opaobie commented:
I have neighbors who are both veterans AND police officers, and I feel a lot safer with THEM as neighbors than I would having ACORN or SEIU or a DEMOCRAT POLITICIAN or a “Veteran Against” THUG anywhere near me.
Dipso Facto commented:
Let’s see if you care when one of these thugs comes back and join your local police department. Try to keep your smug little grin when he considers YOU the “enemy” and a “domestic terrorist” because you don’t support this lawless government.
Not worried, sweetheart. Sorry.
Dipso Facto commented:
Those who are quick to de-humanize the Iraqi people and lump all dark-skinned people into the category of “terrorist” or “potential terrorist”…
Pretty pathetic straw man. Is there anybody who says that dark skin is a prerequisite for terrorism?
Besides, look how fair skinned some terrorists are:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/Taliban%20Mehsud.jpg
Sounds like the only racist here is you.
RealityCheck commented:
FBI E-Mail Says Bush Authorized Abuse of Iraqis: http://pubrecord.org/torture/287/fbi-e-mail-says-bush-authorized-abuse-of-iraqis/
U.S. Officials Admitted that Boys Were Sodomized In Iraq Prison: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/us-officials-admitted-that-boys-were.html
Guys… please take my posts in contact… I LOVE MY COUNTRY… NOT ALL OF OUR TROOPS ARE BAD… NOT ALL POLICE OFFICERS ARE BAD… Please take a step back and open your eyes to what’s happening to our country.
RealityCheck commented:
Dipso, consider Ares post above.
RealityCheck commented:
BTW… I voted for Bush twice.
Chisum commented:
Reality Check the Troll,
Vile innuendo. That’s all you have. Your link lacks proof and it certainly doesn’t address your statement that Iraqi children were being raped in front of their parents by US soldiers.
I’m still waiting for you to back up your assertion that one million innocent Iraqis have been murdered.
Loser!
Dipso Facto commented:
FBI E-Mail Says Bush Authorized Abuse of Iraqis:
The article itself says that Bush authorized enhanced interrogation tactics, not abuse. I approve of that.
U.S. Officials Admitted that Boys Were Sodomized In Iraq Prison:
Newsflash: Prisoners are sodomized in American prisons, too. Unfortunately for your dumb little drama-queen hissy fit here, the reality is that the military is miles ahead of the press in discovering and punishing the abuse of prisoners. It’s simply not policy to abuse prisoners, no matter what your silly fantasies are.
You want us to believe that the same politically correct military brass that allowed an avowed, vocal jihadist to stay in the army until he killed 14 people at Fort Hood is also turning a blind eye to the rampant abuses of Muslims.
An utterly cretinous assertion.
RealityCheck commented:
Chism… no need to call names. I am not your enemy.
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/1-over-one-million-iraqi-deaths-caused-by-us-occupation/
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, “War is Hell”. Research the term “fog of war”. Then, BURN your Democrat Talking Points and start thinking for yourself. We treat detainees better than we treat our own troops, they now even have more “rights” than our own troops, and American military heroes have died trying to avoid inflicting casualties on civilians. The enemy we face is as savage and uncivilized as any we have ever faced in history. You will find “sympathy” between “Sh#t” and “Syphilis” in the dictionary.
Dipso Facto commented:
BTW… I voted for Bush twice.
Of course you did. Absolutely! By the time the 2004 election rolled around nobody in the entire country was saying that the Iraq war was based on a lie, or that our troops were abusing prisoners. You were totally unaware of these accusations, so you voted for Bush twice.
Only later did you discover all these dreadful things that made you, a patriotic American veteran, begin to speak out.
WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!
Babsy commented:
#14: ROTFLMAO!!!!
RealityCheck commented:
Chism… you approve of “enhanced interrogation tactics”? Would you approve of them on… say… yourself if suspected as a “Terrorists” or “Suspected Terrorist”?
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, that link leads to a site whose masthead reads, “The News That Didn’t Make The News”, and I can see why. It’s all bogus, and so are the Leftist children writing for it.
Dipso Facto commented:
I am not your enemy.
You’re just kind of a dummy. You think a million Iraqis died, which would require a daily death toll of well over 500, yet there are no media reports of that many people dying in terrorist attacks in one day.
Surely there would be thousands of such reports, since the figure of a million deaths would mean that the daily death toll of 500+ would be repeated day in and day out, for years.
Yet no such reports exist anywhere in the world. Weird!
Chisum commented:
“Chism… you approve of “enhanced interrogation tactics”? Would you approve of them on… say… yourself if suspected as a “Terrorists” or “Suspected Terrorist”?”
Yes.
Dipso Facto commented:
Chism… you approve of “enhanced interrogation tactics”? Would you approve of them on… say… yourself if suspected as a “Terrorists” or “Suspected Terrorist”?
It me, dummy, not “Chism.”
And what makes you think someone doesn’t already apply enhanced interrogation techniques on me on a nightly basis? Waterboarding can be fun if done by the right person:
http://tinyurl.com/y85s274
Chisum commented:
Here you go, reality check, the lying troll.
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/01/04/another-debunking-of-the-lance/
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, as a veteran, you should be aware that we waterboard our own as part of training. Approving of tactics to be used on the ENEMY doesn’t demand approval of using them on innocent American civilians. Sorry, another red herring argument. I told you to BURN your Democrat talking points. We here are all well versed in them.
Dipso Facto commented:
I’m still waiting for you to back up your assertion that one million innocent Iraqis have been murdered.
That figure has been around since 2008, when the Iraq war had been raging for five years. Five years equals 1825 days.
If you divide 1,000,000 by 1825, you get 548. That means that 548 Iraqis were killed every single day for five years. There should be thousands of news reports listing thousands of attacks that killed 548 or more Iraqis.
Yet there aren’t any. How strange! Not even in the Arab press. Odd! Bizarre! In the entire global press corps, not one single journalist ever filed a report listing even one terrorist attack that killed 548 or more Iraqis.
It’s almost like it never happened or something!
Dipso Facto commented:
RealityCheck, as a veteran[...]
He’s(?) a veteran of his high school chess club at most.
Chisum commented:
Dipso Facto,
I think it originated with the thoroughly debunked
Lancet study.
This troll must have been living in a box the last few years. All of his talking points are dated, besides being laughably bogus.
He’s a buffoon.
RealityCheck commented:
Opaobie… if an “innocent” American is considered a “terrorist” or “potential terrorist” by this government, why would he/she not be a candidate for indefinite detention or “enhanced interrogation”? That person would be considered an “enemy”, would they not? This is NOT a red herring argument.
Again I refer you to the pending “S. 3081 Enemy Belligerent Interrogation Act” – for DOMESTIC APPLICATION on U.S. Citizens. http://www.truthistreason.net/s-3081-enemy-belligerent-interrogation-a-sick-merry-go-round
Chisum commented:
“He’s(?) a veteran of his high school chess club at most.”
Nah, Glee Club.
RealityCheck commented:
Chisum… how many dead non-combatant Iraqis are acceptable to you?
Dipso Facto commented:
Opaobie… if an “innocent” American is considered a “terrorist” or “potential terrorist” by this government, why would he/she not be a candidate for indefinite detention or “enhanced interrogation”?
What’s “with” all “the” quotation “marks”?
RealityCheck commented:
Chisum… how many non-combatant Iraqis have been killed according to your vast knowledge?
Dipso Facto commented:
Chisum… how many dead non-combatant Iraqis are acceptable to you?
Excellent admission that nowhere near one million Iraqis have died.
The answer, of course, is that we can’t let our national security be based on a body count. We lost fewer than 500,000 troops in world War II, but we killed several million German and Japanese combatants and noncombatants.
When fighting a war, you fight until either the enemy gives up or you give up. Besides, we’ve taken more precautions to safeguard the lives of Iraqi civilians than we’ve taken in any other war we’ve fought.
Only a gibbering moron would think otherwise. Only a gibbering moron would base his opinions on statistics that have no basis in fact.
Dipso Facto commented:
Drama Club, Chisum.
Chisum commented:
Chisum… how many non-combatant Iraqis have been killed according to your vast knowledge?
Depends on who’s counting.
Here’s one source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck #67, because American citizens are protected by the Constitution, and the bogus legislation you cited is unconstitutional. That doesn’t mean an activist Leftist judge won’t uphold it, though, since this current cabal in charge of the government today is totally unmoored from the Constitution.
Dipso Facto commented:
“Chisum… how many non-combatant Iraqis have been killed according to your vast knowledge?”
Noncombatants? Nobody knows. Iraq Body Count says about 100,000, but that figure is certainly inflated since it’s based on media reports supplied by Iraqi stringers, many of whom were either insurgents or insurgent sympathizers.
Remember all those reports of beheaded bodies? If you actually look at the followups by the U.S. armed forces, a large percentage of those stories were bogus.
Here’s just one:
http://newsbusters.org/node/13851
Opaobie commented:
…just for clarification, it would be unconstitutional to apply S. 3081 to U.S. citizens, but non-citizens may be treated any way necessary within the bounds of “laws of war”.
Babsy commented:
#76: How many did Saddam, the Great Saladin, put in mass graves or feed to the Euphrates fishes? By the way, where is Saddam hanging out these days?
RealityCheck commented:
Chisum… I made no such admission. Did you even read the page from the link I posted regarding civilian casualties? If you had, you would realize that it is not based soley on the Lancet Study.
Internet debates are virtually worthless when the conversation degrades into rhetorical nonsense. There’s not much value in continuing.
I pray for our country and for our countrymen. I pray for our soldiers and especially for our policy makers. I pray that we will return to Constutional government and the rule of law.
RealityCheck commented:
Opaobie… agreed… but “unconstitutional” is our governments speciality lately… problem is, if we accept the principle of torture or enhanced interrogation for others, we’re setting ourselves up for the same treatment. Tyranny does not discriminate.
Chisum commented:
Chisum… I made no such admission. Did you even read the page from the link I posted regarding civilian casualties? If you had, you would realize that it is not based soley on the Lancet Study.
=============================
Liar, here’s what you said:
==============================
“I support our troops but this “war” was based on a lie (no WMD’s) and over a million innocent Iraqis have died needlessly. It is possible to “support our troops” without mindlessly ignoring a war crime and devaluing other human lives.”
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, nope, the enemy we face will use EVERY barbaric means on us they feel like, often just for sport. Telling the enemy EXACTLY what we will and won’t do to them destroys the psychological value of interrogation, and it gives the enemy a training outline for resisting interrogation. There is NO evidence of “torturing” detainees, it isn’t necessary, but it may be the only method left if the survival of the nation is at stake thanks to the ELIMINATION of all other methods thanks to the ACLU, Leftist judges, and a gutless, meddling Congress. Get rid of this Congress, and we will be well on our way BACK to Constitutional governance.
You’ve been treated pretty rudely, but you brought a lot of it on yourself. Take a step back, do more research, and be open to the possibility that you may have accepted as fact a number of false premises.
Dipso Facto commented:
Chisum, the Drama Club veteran can’t read. He keeps attributing your remarks to me.
He also can’t defend any of his ridiculous talking points. He just plows ahead like an dumb ox in a yoke.
For example, why would he believe that a million Iraqis have died, when not a single news report in the entire world ever listed a terrorist attack that killed 548 people? You would need many hundreds of such attacks to add up to one million, but there has never been even one.
Yet the Drama Club veteran dopily plods ahead, repeating his claim. He doesn’t stop to think for even a nanosecond. No information gets in. He’s a closed system.
Aren’t you glad you’re not like him?
RealityCheck commented:
Chisum… the link I posted bears out the assertion that over a million Iraqis have been killed as a result of our actions in Iraq. I have not admitted anything other than this.
The link I posted provides other corroborating evidence beyond the Lancet Study. How have I lied?
RealityCheck commented:
Dipso, I assure you that you would not be attacking me personally if we were speaking face to face.
Chisum commented:
DF, have you seen what the troll is using to reference his assertions?
Unbelievable!
Richard Romano commented:
Dipso Facto
April 6th, 2010 | 8:09 pm | #59
Surely there would be thousands of such reports, since the figure of a million deaths would mean that the daily death toll of 500+ would be repeated day in and day out, for years.
Yet no such reports exist anywhere in the world. Weird!
I had a professor in graduate school (this was in 2006) who claimed that Iraqis were being slaughtered en masse by American military personnel. When I asked him where were the reports for such a monstrous charge, he claimed that the media wanted to hide such deeds. I then asked him how he could possibly know about this if the reports were hidden. You could have dropped a pin in the room — the silence was deafening.
He then pulled an Obama tactic and switched topics — it was the most utterly pathetic moment in my graduate school experience. Here’s a well-educated man, a much-published author in the humanities, completely be-clowning himself in a room full of nodding sycophants (except me of course).
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, save the “school yard” bravado for a less public setting. Your premise of 1,000,000 dead Iraqis is bogus; live with it and move on.
Chisum commented:
“The link I posted provides other corroborating evidence beyond the Lancet Study. How have I lied?”
—————————————————
Try finding a more credible link.
You know, something a little more mainstream.
Chisum commented:
“Dipso, I assure you that you would not be attacking me personally if we were speaking face to face.”
—————————————————–
Ha ha. What are you going to do? Scare him off with your pink tutu?
RealityCheck commented:
http://www.alternet.org/world/123818/iraq's_shocking_human_toll:_about_1_million_killed,_4.5_million_displaced,_1-2_million_widows,_5_million_orphans/
Mark in IA commented:
RealityCheck, you aren’t a conservative or a veteran but a lying scumbag slandering our troops and veterans. Go die in a fire, troll.
RealityCheck commented:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-schwartz/will-the-slaughter-of-ira_b_143503.html
RealityCheck commented:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2742059920080827
Patrick Chester commented:
Chisum wrote:
“Try finding a more credible link.”
‘Reality Check’ responds with… HuffPo and alternet.
Though I do find it amusing to see someone who claims to have voted for Bush twice parroting leftist talking points so zealously. Really, do you think people haven’t noticed that tactic since Moby had his oh-so-brilliant little brainstorm back in ’03 or so?
RealityCheck commented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU&feature=player_embedded
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, posting links to totally biased Leftist sites only hurts your case. You may as well link to Hamas or Hezbollah sites or quote “Baghdad Bob”
Dipso Facto commented:
RealityCheck, you’re a perfect example of why our country is in such trouble. You come here blathering your stupid, childish talking points that you can’t even defend, and when I make fun of you for being deeply silly, you tell me that if we were speaking face to face you’d physically assault me, I guess.
Well, here’s some news: Even if you beat me into the ground, you’d still be a silly, childish person who can’t even defend his own talking points. Beating me up wouldn’t prove anything except that you’re a violent person.
Who’s still deeply silly and childish.
RealityCheck commented:
You guys are hillarious… sad but hillarious.
I was once a hawkish neo-con as well. Then I woke up.
Facts are facts. A media black-out of such facts are not an excuse to stick your head in the sand. It’s easy to call names and stand on your perch of the left vs. right paradigm.
How about reading the articles. Then reseach the reference sources within the articles. You can shoot the messenger, attack the source, spout your political crap all you want. It doesn’t change reality.
Talking points? Pathetic.
By the way, why am I hear? I read Pundit ALL THE TIME! It’s one of my favorite blogs. You’re trying your best to label and alienate an opposing opinion… you sound just like Obama!
RealityCheck commented:
So the only “credible” sources are right-wing sites? I happen to read as much as I can from every point of view, do my own research and make up my own mind. You ought to try it.
Opaobie commented:
“Three U.S. soldiers killed four handcuffed and blindfolded Iraqi prisoners with pistol shots on the bank of a Baghdad canal last year, the New York Times reported on Wednesday.”…how did that one turn out, or did you bother to follow the story to the end?
That accounts for 4, so what about the other 1,000,000 – 4?
John Kerry made some outrageous claims about the Vietnam veterans, too, and they all turned out to be bogus. The New York Slimes, still doing what it can to slander the troops after all these years.
Dipso Facto commented:
Richard, the Drama Club veteran is unable to explain why there are no–repeat NO–news reports of any terrorist attacks that killed 548 Iraqis in one day. That alone shows that he’s incapable of thinking.
Also, he wants us to believe that the same military brass that kept an obese, psychotic, outspoken jihadist in the army out of fear of being called “Islamophobic” would simultaneously turn a blind eye to our troops murdering and torturing thousands of Muslims in Iraq.
Even if RealityCheck beat my head in, he would still be unable to reason. Beating me up wouldn’t make his infantile, nonsensical arguments any more valid.
Dipso Facto commented:
“A media black-out of such facts are not an excuse to stick your head in the sand.”
===================
Boy, that’s one heck of a media blackout! It’s 100 percent effective, all across the globe. Not a single story has ever been published anywhere, in any country, that shows even one terrorist attack in Iraq that killed 548 people.
Why, pray tell, is the Arab press blacking out the true number of Iraqi deaths? Why is the Iranian press blacking it out?
Don’t be a wussy and ignore my question, now…
Patrick Chester commented:
Little one, do you really think your dance hasn’t been done before by others playing the “I once was a sinner, but I SAW THE LIGHT” song in oh-so-sincere tones?
Go on, pretend to be the only “reasonable” person on the thread and play the martyr because you face such awful skepticism. It’s the next verse in your little song, isn’t it?
Opaobie commented:
So the only “credible” sources are right-wing sites?…yep, in today’s world they are. You prove it by citing debunked slander and fables from Leftist sources. Do you honestly believe the Leftist media and blog sites are even telling you the truth about what is going on right now before your very eyes? How are they reporting on “Obamacare” and the tyranny being imposed by the Obama-Reid-Pelosi regime? If that doesn’t convince you not to trust them ever again, nothing will.
RealityCheck commented:
Dipso, I have not responded to you because I refuse to accept your premise. If you would read the first link I posted to support the claim for over a million killed, you would realize there are multiple other studies which bear out the numbers. The other links I posted from sites you consider liberal also refer to studies which you can also research for yourself.
Your premise is flawed if you assume your stated scenario is the only way more than a million Iraqis have been killed.
Dipso Facto commented:
Good God. RealityCheck posted a link to a Reuters story about American troops killing Iraqi prisoners. Here’s the first paragraph:
“Sergeant First Class Joseph P. Mayo, the platoon sergeant, and Sergeant Michael P. Leahy Jr., Company D’s senior medic and an acting squad leader, made sworn statements in January to ARMY INVESTIGATORS in Schweinfurt, Germany probing the incident, the newspaper reported on its website.”
Apparently it escaped the Drama Club veteran’s notice that the killers were speaking to investigators, which means that the military is, in fact, not turning a blind eye to the abuse or murder of prisoners. Duh. Just… duh.
What’s it like to have a nonfunctioning brain, RealityCheck? Do you hear a high-pitched humming sound, or the endless laughter of babies, or the sound of one gigantic, eternal goat fart?
RealityCheck commented:
Opaobie… the greatest challenge in discovering the truth is wading through the bias/perspective/agenda of the source. I don’t trust CNN any more than I trust FOX. They each have a unique agenda… the first of which is to continue to propogate the left vs. right paradigm and keep Americans divided along idealogical lines. The powers that be want to define the parameters of debate and maintain control.
RealityCheck commented:
Dipso… please stop with the paper tigers and false arguments. I never suggested that the military was not investigating criminal incidents. I am however suggesting that the problem is systemic! Most of our troops are moral, honorable, and ethical people. But there are murderous psychopaths that must be dealt with. Are you denying this?
Dipso Facto commented:
“Dipso, I have not responded to you because I refuse to accept your premise.”
==================
Of course you do! Because there’s no empirical evidence for your claim. You can cite studies all day long. There is no evidence whatsoever of your claim. None.
There are no reports in the entire world of 548 Iraqis dying every day of any cause, much less violence. There is no evidence anywhere on the planet that this happened. Go ahead and cite your bogus studies. Believe your silly, childish fairytales.
And I’ll keep mocking you for being so stupid.
RealityCheck commented:
By the way Dipso… have YOU ever served? Have YOU ever been shot at? Do you have any idea what the HELL you’re talking about?
Dipso Facto commented:
“I am however suggesting that the problem is systemic!”
=================
I know that’s what you’re saying. And it’s another stupid fantasy. We don’t have a “systemic problem” of murderous psychopaths in the armed forces.
The reality, of course, is that there are far fewer people with mental issues in the armed forces than in the general population, due to the screening process.
As a veteran of the Drama Club, you should know this.
Dipso Facto commented:
“By the way Dipso… have YOU ever served? Have YOU ever been shot at? Do you have any idea what the HELL you’re talking about?”
==============
Like you, I’m a veteran of the Drama Club. I’ve been shot at as often as you have.
With cap pistols. But they were really frickin’ loud, man!
Richard Romano commented:
Dipso FactoNo Gravatar
April 6th, 2010 | 9:47 pm | #102
Richard, the Drama Club veteran is unable to explain why there are no–repeat NO–news reports of any terrorist attacks that killed 548 Iraqis in one day. That alone shows that he’s incapable of thinking.
It amounts to a contempt for the obvious — conspiracists by design are incapable logical thought. How many people of Mr. Reality Check’s ideological persuasion posses an ability to think critically?
Just look at who they voted for; a man they believed was well-qualified for office even though he had no quantifiable list of accomplishments to buttress it.
Richard Romano commented:
RealityCheckNo Gravatar
April 6th, 2010 | 10:02 pm | #111
By the way Dipso… have YOU ever served? Have YOU ever been shot at? Do you have any idea what the HELL you’re talking about?
A completely irrelevant non-sequitur — and, a cheap debater’s trick.
Why does that disqualify DF from sharing his opinion on the matter? Have you paid attention? Does he sound like an ignorant dope?
This tells me you’re losing the argument.
Dipso Facto commented:
Richard, first the Drama Club veteran said he’d beat me up (or something creepier) if we were talking face to face.
Now, he says that I need to have served in the military in order to understand how the killing of a million Iraqis has been subjected to a 100 percent effective, global media blackout.
And notice he’s too gutless to answer my question about why the Arab and Iranian press would participate in this media blackout.
RealityCheck commented:
Richard… I raise this question because everyone here understands that there is a pyschology of war. The U.S. military has mastered the art of creating effective killing machines. But there is a psychological cost. Why do I have to even mention this? Why do we have to even discuss soldier’s suicide rate, use of psychotropic drugs while in theater, post traumatic stress, etc.
There’s a mentality you have to adopt to survive in the sandbox and some guys DO go over the edge. Again, I don’t understand why this is such a revolutionary concept. Seems pretty obvious.
If Dipso would actually READ each of the links I’ve posted related to the civilian casualty count, he would see that one of the sources of information IS the Iraqi government.
RealityCheck commented:
And Richard… YES… he does sound like an ignorant dope.
Richard Romano commented:
Dipso Facto,
He’s gone — he knows he lost and so he’s returned to something more on his intellectual level; that is, play dough and crayola crayons.
You have to wonder about some people — why not just admit that you’re wrong and then move on? Nope, he desperately clings to some completely manufactured statistic.
I remember a wise commenter once noted the Klaus Kinski film, “Aguirre, the Wrath of God” as a way to describe the liberal mindset. Quite poignant I thought
Chisum commented:
Dipso, you are so MEAN!
Why can’t you just acknowledge that there are millions of mentally ill troops returning home and getting hired by local police departments.
And they’re just waiting for an excuse to waterboard your arse.
Richard Romano commented:
I spoke too soon — but RC has nothing new to add, just more venom and deferral.
Chisum commented:
Oh, and Dipso, you’re an ignorant dope. Reality Check said so. And he’s an expert on dopes.
So there!
Opaobie commented:
RealityCheck, I told you to do your own research and try some critical thinking. FoxNews has a slightly Right bias, CNN has a marked LEFT bias, as do all the other sources you cited. FACTS are FACTS, so if one source isn’t reporting them at all or is misrepresenting them, DROP it from your list of trusted sites.
Jean Fraud Kerry tried the “it’s systemic throughout the military” horse hockey during the Vietnam war, and it is still crap today. As Dipso Facto #112 pointed out, “there are far fewer people with mental issues in the armed forces than in the general population, due to the screening process.” In fact, that allegation was made about Vietnam era military veterans, and the truth is, they ranked higher than the general public in every category except CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR!
If you really are a military veteran and have seen combat, you wouldn’t denigrate it or those who have not seen it so cavalierly. You don’t have to be run over by a truck to be able to envision and discuss the horrors of it intelligently. Some of the posters here have lost family members to war or to crime, so maybe they have a perspective you don’t possess.
You really are starting to unravel, so why not give it up, learn from the experience, and move on?
RealityCheck commented:
Hahaha… the really amazing part of this discussion is that we all probably agree on 90% of political/social issues, yet you’re attacking me like a bunch of fourth graders. I answer Dipso’s rhetoric only to be confronted by another paper lion.
All I can do is ask that you read the links… conduct independent research on the sources quoted and encourage you to make up your own mind.
Richard, you accuse me of adding venom? Go back through this thread and count the number of personal attacks I have endured vs. those I’ve initiated. All I did was agree with your charaterization of how Dipso was making himself look as a result of his attacks.
Opaobie commented:
Book, *him , Danno, “Aggravated Loitering with intent to commit Mopery”
(*or her, we don’t really know whether RealityCheck is masculine, feminine, or neuter)
…I’m outta here.
Dipso Facto commented:
“All I can do is ask that you read the links… conduct independent research on the sources quoted and encourage you to make up your own mind.”
====================
I have made up my mind, but that upsets you. In reality you’re not encouraging us to make up our own minds. You want us to believe what you believe.
No can do. When there’s not even the tiniest shred of evidence for something, not in any news outlet on planet Earth, it’s asking too much that I simply believe.
I don’t take things on faith. I require that they be proven to me.
Andreas K. commented:
“Where is your humanity?”
LOL!
RealityCheck, get one of those yourself please.
This is an urban warfare situation. The gunship crew identified the weapons. It’s also a combat situation. Stress levels go high, even in a gunship. Adrenaline goes high. Ever been on an adrenaline rush?
I went through urban warfare training and in the end we shot first and asked questions later. You don’t give the benefit of a doubt in such a situation. You shoot. Otherwise it might your own men killed. And you really don’t want that to happen.
The gunner was itching for nailing the crawling guy?
I can’t blame him. Everyday his brothers and sisters would get wounded or killed by terrorists who disguise themselves as civilians and who do not follow any laws of war.
And what the hell do you think war is?
Also, that “innocent” Reuters reporter was among the guys carrying AKs and RPGs. Hmm, reminds me of those palestinian “reporters” who always pop up at the scenes of Israeli “crimes”, which are always staged for the camera of those “reporters” by the palestinians. Hmmm… I guess he wanted to get a good shot about American soldiers getting killed. Cause that’s what the left wing loves! They just love dead soldiers and celebrate every death. And not only in the US.
Now, where’s the humanity of those terrorists? Hmm?
The Americans shoot up a terrorist. What happens? They get the medic to treat him.
The terrorists shoot up an American. What happens? They take him prisoner, abuse him, torture him, then behead him for a video.
Where’s the humanity, eh?
As for the suicide rate among soldiers. Uh… like some claim it’s higher among Nam vets, along that line? Too bad that, for example, the suicide rate among Nam vets is actually lower than among the rest of the population.
LimoLibsStink commented:
0bama:
Let me be clear, although this story is almost 3 years old and is not credible, it just goes to show how much the US military sucks.
If the NYT can just keep repeating this type of story Harry Reid will probably be right in 5 years. The war is lost! Then we can cut and run. After that we can bring the Troops home and give them the 0bamacare that they need.
My limousine is running and Barney Frank and I have a meeting with the editors of the NYT. They are going to get the wedgie of their lives. Good day.
Militant Conservative commented:
First rule of War, Win. Second don’t start one in your own country. (really messes up the landscaping)
Realitycheck, WE win they lose collateral damage happens. Happens on both side, the MSM shows just one side. No tears hear. powder is dry.
Kristopher commented:
RealityCheck:”Dipso, I have not responded to you because I refuse to accept your premise. ”
Heh … there is the tell.
He’s using Randite jargon. You are dealing with a big “L” libertarian, or possibly a Paul-bot. A Hoffer-grade True Believer.
Not a leftist, and possibly a real vet … but still impervious to facts.
Opaobie commented:
Hey, everybody! I found the statistics on millions of innocents MURDERED! RealityCheck, here is the link you should have posted.
Americans Murder Millions of Innocents! Stop the Carnage! It isn’t 1,000,000, it’s 49,551,703!!!
Dmitry commented:
I think that Apache did a very good work. Highly professional and exactly what they are expected to do: fast and efficient elimination of armed insurgents in the middle of the battle.
Journalists knew the danger, and behaved unprofessionally: where is their marking? Why they did not coordinated their whereabouts with US Army? Don’t they know that long tele are similar to RPG after several years of conflict? They tried to make sensational shots (e.g. of successful shooting down of US Apache with RPG), and took the risk. They paid for it.
War is a lethal business, and USArmy is not a nanny in kindergarden. It is dishonorable to expect GI’s not to shoot guys with RPG because one of them can have an SLR: this amounts to ask them to pay with their lives for possible stupidity of others.
Jerry C commented:
RealityCheck, you lost me forever when you quoted from Reuters.
I recall a muslim Reuters “reporter” who staged an entire scene for an anti-Israel propaganda piece.
You cannot convince anyone with an ounce of brain when you quote totally unreliable sources.
Stuart commented:
The reporters were working on a weightlifting story? O.K., I’ll buy into that. I mean, I don’t know about you but I always use an RPG-7 launcher in my upper body workouts.
william commented:
Im 43 voted straight republican since i was 18 exept for the Pero accident. I watched the video Sunday night. Theres a 34 minute version of the video i have’nt seen yet. I counted 1 AK, 1 rpg both pointed down. 1 what could be a rocket launcher, it looked like it was pointed at the helicopter but the copter moved around to fast. I have to disagree, the chopper pilot was wrong about being fired or we would have a seen it or a smoke trail at least. I think the chopper pilot really wanted kill people and misidentified being fired apon. You can plainly see at the beginning of the video the choppers are so far away they have to soom in with their camera just to find a target. Apparently the iraqi, with what i thought was a rocket launcher had super human vision and hearing because he was the only iraqi in the city to notice the choppers so I highly doubt he even saw the chopper cause the other dozen or so sitting ducks with their 2 weapons (pointed at the ground) never saw or heard a thing, obviously. The van with the 2 children at the end of the video were obviously there to pick up the sole survivor to probably get him to medical treatment when they were fired on. The 2 commentators this morning spun this thing way further right than they should and should be ashamed and the polite screener this morning i talked to apparently agree with my view so i had to hang up. I love our troops and I wish they were home. I feel those 2, or 3 guys with the weapons are just like you and me. I hope we would have the heart to stand up an foreign military power that came into America on the pretense of removing our president .
By the way if there is a foreign power out there that wishes to remove our president, hurry the F up
cause we cant, we just argue amongst ourselves and blame the other guy totally deceived by our laimstream media. But you have to leave when you get him !
Most Iraqis want US troops out now
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=3971
labwriter commented:
You might want to check this out, from a guy who was there, a soldier who spent 15 months in Baghdad on the radio. God bless our troops whose job is difficult enough without the media getting it so wrong.
http://www.missourah.com/2010/04/09/a-soldiers-response/#comments