Virginia AG Cuccinelli: If Dems Ram Obamacare Through House We Will Be in Court Next Week (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Thursday, March 18, 2010, 10:53 PM
Virginia Attorney General Kenneth T. Cuccinelli, II told Greta Van Susteren on Thursday night that if Speaker Nancy Pelosi and democrats use the unconstitutional tactic, deem and pass, to ram Obamacare through the US House, then he would be in court as soon as the bill is signed by President Obama.
AG Cuccinelli says the democrat’s legislation is unconstitutional and he also contends the “deem and pass” legislative process is unconstitutional:
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Published May 24, 2012 at 8:46 pm - 77 Comments
Frank Jones commented:
Unconctitutional except when republicans use it.
bg commented:
++
great news..
lets hope & pray the bill is killed, if for nothing
else, it will save US a lot more time & money..
==
ebayer commented:
My 77 year old father had his prostate removed several years ago and has to take medication every day to keep the cancer at bay.
He drives a school bus in order to have insurance to cover the cost of this $600 month medicine.
He told me this evening that his doctor told him if this Obamacare gets passed,the insurance won’t cover the cost because it’s too expensive.
Obama lied,people WILL die.
bg commented:
++
Frank Jones @ 11:00 pm #1
GUILTY!!
[When the Republican leadership reported a self-executing rule providing for the adoption of the $82 billion plan over 10 years and an almost trillion-dollar plan over 20 years, accelerating the increased child tax credit for low-income people families, we didn't even get an opportunity to vote on the bill itself except by reference in a self-executing rule.]
“we the people” were the beneficiaries, thumbsup!!
==
Rick commented:
Glad to see one state going to court. What we need is for more state legislatures to do the same. It will give the doj more time to ignore terrorists. My bad, they already do.
Dave commented:
To Mr. Frank Jones,
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Unless you’re value system is communist.
We need to vote them all out of office.
Let’s see:
US Debt is the highest in the history of the World.
Anti Capitalism
Universal Health care (Gov Death Panels)
Amnesty (Open Boarders)
Cap and trade
Gov. Motor’s
Gov. Student Loans
Gov. Banking
Gov. Water
Gov. Food
Gov. Housing (Fred/Fannie have 50% all home Mortgages.)
When does it end! Who is the Gov?
Very corrupt!!!!! With No Accountability
If this bill passes,
This means all Judges will now have to go to
the Gov. for their health care. Yeah you can
kiss the Justice System Good bye!
No soup for you! Unless you fall in line with the Party!
We are seeing the Executive Branch pulling all stops
to circumvent the US Constitution. Where is the FBI
it seems to me the Gov Blogovich was thrown
out of office for pay to play. This is whats happing right
before our eyes!!!
Dave
Rose commented:
Good. I think even the Dems want this madness stopped, and they are relying on the SCOTUS to be their Mommy and say NO.
But after they do we will be faced with years of Gore-like snit fit tantrums and hatred.
It’ll be worth it.
bg commented:
++
re: bg #4
is what Hoyer stated true??
[However, with respect to the child tax credit, the principle of “tax refunds for taxpayers” is confusing and easily mischaracterized as deliberately short-changing the poor. Congress quickly realized they left themselves open to political attack, and scrambled to pass an unnecessary bill. The Senate hastily voted 94-2 on June 5th to expand the child tax credit provision for low-income working families. The House then countered with its own 224-201 vote on a much larger expansion. The primary differences-- and they’re big ones-- are that the House bill also expands the credit to higher income families and extends the measure through the decade.
[..]
The fundamental reason is that all of these tax credits bring more money, more decision-making, and more power to Washington, D.C. Instead of demanding new tax credit programs, Nancy Pelosi and her colleagues should propose reducing regressive taxes in the first place. At the federal level, such an agenda includes holding the line against efforts to expand the gas tax, which hits the working poor hardest, and backing Personal Retirement Accounts, which will permit the working poor to improve their Social Security returns and begin building real wealth.
The tax code should not be used as a welfare or income redistribution system. In rolling the child tax credit into welfare reauthorization, Republicans in Congress are doing the right thing in terms of both policy and politics.]
[standard disclaimer: source Wikipedoia]
Advance Child Tax Credit Payments
==
Slappy commented:
Frank Jones
March 18th, 2010 | 11:00 pm | #1
Unconctitutional except when republicans use it.
Nice try, Frank. Your attempt to draw a perfect comparison to the GOP’s use of the self-executing rule is pathetic. The GOP used the rule in situations in which the legislation was nowhere near as significant as a permanent change to the health care system (i.e., government control of 1/6th of the U.S. economy). Moreover, their use of the rule was in situations when the public supported what they were passing and there was bipartian support in Congress for what they were passing. And here I thought the Left claimed to be multichotomous, “gray-area” thinkers, not dichotomous, “black-and-white” thinkers like the “stupid” simpleton conservatives. The use of projection by the Left always makes me chuckle.
wanumba commented:
All the Dems have to do is vote N-O to stop the madness. But they’ve been promised they’ll survive, fat and sassy on other people’s money.
Greed greed greed and destructive Leftist ideology.
bg commented:
++
re: bg #9
efforts to expand the gas tax
==
Robert commented:
AG Cucinelli better make sure his boss
signs the bill before he trots off to court.
Sandy commented:
All together 36 states are going to file lawsuits against the Feds for forcing people to buy Health Insurance. And Mark Levin will be in Court on Monday morning to file a lawsuit if they use the Slaughter rule which is unconstitutional to pass a bill which will take 1/6 of our economy.
I called Reid’s office and told the woman I spoke to that this was Unconstitutional. She gave me the talking point — well the Republicans did it first. I said ” Don’t the American people have a right to see who votes for and against this bill which is going to change our economy forever”? With that she said that the media was pushing the Slaughter Rule and that it wasn’t going to happen. What a nasty b-itch she was. The arrogance of power is alive and well in the Democratic Party.
My favorite comment was by a Republican office holder who said Obama thinks when he runs in 2012 no one will mention the enactment of the Healthcare Bill after the election. Like Hell we won’t.
Pelosi is at 3% in the polls — with the margin of error she is at 0%? And yet she’s dancing on the head of a pin–go figure.
bg commented:
++
wanumba @ 12:09 am #11
they don’t give a (fitb)..
they have their offshore & Swiss bank accounts (not to mention the Rothschild, Rockefeller, Soros & the like’s monies backing up their
chosen transitioner, aka: president Obama, of the NWO (what they
don’t realize is, he’s using them to help build a future Caliphate)..
YES THEY CAN retire in comfort..
==
Lioren commented:
iirc… right after Pelosi sends ‘em home, 0bma can appoint new judges and expand the court! esp if they are ‘obstructionist’ (they find demcrap behavior unconstitutional).
Marsh commented:
WOO! GO VIRGINIA! SEND OBAMA’S AND THE DEMOCRAPS MARXIST HEALTH CARE TAKEOVER PLAN BACK TO NORTH KOREA WHERE IT BELONGS!
Andreas K. commented:
Get the pitchforks. Heat up the tar. And someone get the feathers.
Damn, I wish we could just punch the EU in the face like this. But we can’t, because our constitutions are actually a load of crap when you look at it from this point of view.
A Casual Observer commented:
I was distracted at the time, and so I wasn’t paying close attention. But if I understood what was being said correctly, a commentator said on Fox News last night that, in defiance of the embargo, Hewlett-Pachard is selling their computers, peripherals and parts for them to Syria.
That’s the bad news.
The good news is that, in view of the frequently irritating performance of Hewlett-Packard products, it is this poster’s opinion that someone has inadvertently stumbled on a nifty way to sabotage the economy of Syria and to screw up the minds of the Syrians.
Costa commented:
It will be fun to watch O,P,R go thru the “Rocket Docket”! Bring it on all of you voting yes for this illegal, unconstitutional mandate on the States in the Union.
There are more of us voting no than there are of you. Never, never underestimate the American people.
Ginger commented:
Please, someone hurry up and make a dart board with the pictures of all the “yes” votes with the fraud president right smack dab in the middle so that I can release a LOT of ANGER!!!
kate commented:
#1
Frank’s astute and carefully crafted, though misspelled, argument has made me see the light. Hosannah! Republicans are evil. Democrats only have our best interests at heart, they are not venal, power-hungry and tyrannous after all.
All in 6 short words. I am in awe of Frank Jones’ skill with the English language.
Flavia commented:
I love this
listingstarboard commented:
This is a little off topic but as a health care provider I have been wondering how does the congressional, union and community organiser exemption from this bill work exactly? Are there seperate facilities or do they have a special card? How do they get the kind of health care the rest of us won’t and do they have a seperate exclusive group of doctors , because the kinds of doctors you will see with Obamacare will be substandard. Anyone know how the parallel health care system operates?
Chip Bennett commented:
@Frank,
Nice try, but demonstrably wrong.
Never before in history has a self-executing rule been used to “deem” as passed a bill that has not been considered, debated, voted on, and passed by the House.
Never. Not once.
The Republicans have used self-executing rules, to be sure – but only ever on bills that have already been passed by the House. In fact, I defy you to find an example contrary to this assertion. Heck, I dare you to find an example of a self-executing rule used on a bill that wasn’t already at the Conference Report stage.
The Slaughter rule is unprecedented.
squeaky commented:
listingstarboard
March 19th, 2010 | 5:54 am | #25
that’s probably the big unknown. i think a lot of
people will be attending the school of hard knocks when the negatives of obamacare effect them. politicians are like any other sleazy sales
person – you’re their best buddy until you sign on the dotted line.
Militant Conservative commented:
Frank #1 Yup it happened and the public was not screwed. Democrats are all about themselves and power. BIG difference little troll.
Exasperated commented:
The problem here as I see it is that we’re looking at a generation of sleazy, lazy and useless good-for-nothings, who want everything that their parents have, but who don’t want to work for it, and so they intend to steal it from their parents.
Cutting Medicare benefits for the elderly is monstrous. They’re the ones who earned it and deserve it the most.
The people in this country are slimy, evil, mean and very sick.
Frank Jones commented:
Sorry I mistyped. The republicans are using the filibuster way more than it has ever been used before and they have used “deem and pass” many times in the past. To say that “This time it’s different.” is kind of hypocritical. That’s fine. You can be a hypocrite.
If healthcare reform goes through Doctors will still get paid, nurses will still get paid, Ambulance drives will still get paid. Drug companies will still sell drugs. Hospitals will probably make more money than they did because uninsured people that go to the emergency room for non-emergencies will be able to go to a regular doctor. So if you have a real emergency the waits will be shorter.
THis bill mostly affects insurance companies. They are just middlemen between you and your doctor.
Basically the whole reform is about getting young and healthy people in the system so older sick people can keep their coverage. Also, the self employed will be able to buy into group plans. Insurance companies actively try to kick older sicker people out of their plans. Once you get kicked out of private insurance you can’t get back in if you have any kind of pre-existing condition. Ask any self-employed person buying their own insurance about this. They raised my rates 38% in two years.
As for death panels ask yourself this: Has Medicare helped or hurt older Americans general health?
How many Americans eligible for Medicare opt out? None? I guess government run Medicare is not that bad.
AuntieMadder commented:
bg
March 19th, 2010 | 12:55 am | #16
they have their offshore & Swiss bank accounts (not to mention the Rothschild, Rockefeller, Soros & the like’s monies backing up their
chosen transitioner, aka: president Obama, of the NWO (what they
don’t realize is, he’s using them to help build a future Caliphate)..
bg, I’ve thought about that before and I imagine they already know but at this early point in the game, they’re not too concerned about it. Just so long as it weakens and then breaks this country, it’s all good. They’re probably thinking that when it’s down to just them and Islam left, their money will keep them safe and snug, perhaps even as the ruling class with Islam as their slave class. My hope and aim is that we get a handle on things here again and it never comes to that. But if it does turn out that way, it’s too bad I won’t be here to see Soros and his cronies beheaded, because that’s how it’ll turn out. Idiots, all of them.
AuntieMadder commented:
Frank Jones
March 19th, 2010 | 6:43 am | #30
Frank, how much does MoveOn.org pay you? Whatever it is, it’s too much. Idiot.
Frank Jones commented:
Dear Exasperated,
Which political party has always supported Medicare and, in fact, initiated it? Believe it or not, Democrats care about helping the poor and the sick. They are not going to screw over their natural constituency.
Frank Jones commented:
AuntiMadder,
Not get paid by moveon.org. I am paying a huge amount every month for private health insurance.
Like I said, they raised my rate 38% in two years and I can barely afford it. This year my wife was diagnosed with MS. So if we miss a payment we won’t be able to keep our insurance. If we try to get other insurance they won’t cover the MS. That’s how it works.
Our only option is to close my carpentry business and try to get a job with a big company. Not too likely at this point.
Chip Bennett commented:
@Frank:
The filibuster? Your assertion is as untrue as it is non sequitur.
This time is different. I’ve carefully documented the difference, as linked above. The biggest hypocrites in this whole affair are Louise Slaughter, Nancy Pelosi, and Steny Hoyer.
Go read what I documented regarding the self-executing rule, as linked above. Until you do so, you are speaking from a position of ignorance, and as such, are not really worthy of continued engagement on the issue.
Frank Jones commented:
Are any of you self-employed buying your own insurance and over the age of 40? I am completely open to how you are dealing with huge rate increases and the pre-existing condition problem.
Pretty much I see insurance company reform as my only shot to having medical stability.
Frank Jones commented:
Hi Chip,
OK I don’t care about the process. I just want healthcare reform.
I told you about my situation: self-employed buying private insurance, rates going up like crazy, wife now has pre-existing condition. WHAT DO I DO?
Chip Bennett commented:
@Frank
You claim not to care about the process, and yet you were the first one to jump in to comment on this thread, decrying the alleged hypocrisy of the Republicans regarding the “process”?
Sorry, I’m not going to let you change the subject, which with respect to this comment thread, is the unconstitutionality of the Slaughter rule.
The merits of the legislation itself are a matter for another thread.
Pat the First commented:
Hey, Frank, your insurance company would not be able to raise your premiums unless they had proven that the rates were necessary to YOUR STATE’S Insurance Commissioner or Insurance regulation department. Obviously, your State officials thought it was necessary.
And “Unconctitutional” . . . LOL!! B.O., San Fran Nan and Prince Harry are all going to find out about what “Unconctitutional” means.
Pat the First commented:
Frank Jones
March 19th, 2010 | 7:06 am | #37
Hi Chip,
OK I don’t care about the process. I just want healthcare reform.
Bet you would if the GOP handle legislation the same way when they take back Congress in November. Your liberal Congress is going away very, very soon.
Chip Bennett commented:
@Pat: don’t let Frank change the subject.
Discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of the bill itself merely distracts from the discussion of the unconstitutionality of the Slaughter rule.
listingstarboard commented:
Oh for goodness sake Frank Jones, this is not healthcare reform , this is wealth confiscation and redistribution coupled with complete government control of the individual from cradle to grave. I am a person that actually PROVIDES THE SERVICE of healthcare and believe me, you are going to wish this did not happen. The best doctors, nurses, respiratory techs etc. are gong to QUIT!!! Frank Jones you are a disgrace and deserve the certain misery that will accompany the changes wrought by this administration.
Frank Jones commented:
Your right Chip. I did bring up process first. But you have to admit both republicans and democrats try to use procedural tricks all the time to get what they want. I realized we could argue forever about which ones are justified.
So I switched to the real problem for me which is the huge rate increases and no way out.
I have a state insurance commissioner? Probably the state commissioner is not asking the insurance company to raise it rates more than it wants to. Glad for that , at least.
Chip Bennett commented:
Er, no. You still have read what I linked, have you?
The Slaughter rule is not a “procedural trick”; it is a direct violation of Article I of the Constitution, because it circumvents a vote by one chamber prior to a bill being presented to the President.
The Republicans have never done this. Not once. Go ahead: prove me wrong.
No, you were proven wrong, and like any good liberal lacking in proper debate skills, attempted to change the subject.
Andreas K. commented:
Frank Jones
March 19th, 2010 | 7:02 am | #36
Pretty much I see insurance company reform as my only shot to having medical stability.
Which you won’t get. All you will get will be waiting lists and rationing. Like in Europe.
And then, when you have something really bad cooking health-wise, you will need the system and they’ll tell you “Sorry, you have to wait.” And then you’re dead.
squeaky commented:
“The best doctors, nurses, respiratory techs etc. are gong to QUIT!!!..” and the ones who don’t quit will be worked to death. sometimes people demand more that what they themselves
would do.
Frank Jones commented:
They won’t quit and you don’t have to wait forever. My sister moved to Australia when she got married so she knows about public health insurance. My nephew just had to get an appendectomy. He went in and had great service. When ever she is sick or needs a checkup she goes in. No bill.
Just this morning I had to go for a followup and it turned out my referral expired 3 months ago. So unless I could get a referral I my insurance would not cover my visit. A waste of an hour and a half for insurance paperwork.
“Which you won’t get. All you will get will be waiting lists and rationing. Like in Europe.
And then, when you have something really bad cooking health-wise, you will need the system and they’ll tell you “Sorry, you have to wait.” And then you’re dead.”
I had to wait 4 months to get a skin cancer taken off with insurance. Now I have to wait until May for a followup and I am paying 25% of my income for insurance. Wow! Great system!
None of you are self employed buying your own insurance. None of you are uninsured. You are lucky. None of you can tell me what I should do about premiums rising over 10% a year and my wife with a pre-existing condition.
Frank Jones commented:
http://blog.american.com/?p=11467
“Any veteran observer of Congress is used to the rampant hypocrisy over the use of parliamentary procedures that shifts totally from one side to the other as a majority moves to minority status, and vice versa. But I can’t recall a level of feigned indignation nearly as great as what we are seeing now from congressional Republicans and their acolytes at the Wall Street Journal, and on blogs, talk radio, and cable news. It reached a ridiculous level of misinformation and disinformation over the use of reconciliation, and now threatens to top that level over the projected use of a self-executing rule by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.” That strategy, then decried by the House Democrats who are now using it, and now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld). Dreier used it for a $40 billion deficit reduction package so that his fellow GOPers could avoid an embarrassing vote on immigration. I don’t like self-executing rules by either party—I prefer the “regular order”—so I am not going to say this is a great idea by the Democrats. But even so—is there no shame anymore?”
O commented:
Frank, I am a very small business owner, so the insurance policy we provide only covers 4 employees, which essentially gets us a “private individual” (read: not cheap) cost. Our rates have gone through the roof, and we have cut our coverage dramatically, so much so that our out of pocket expenses are rivaling our premium costs. I tried to change companies last year, but pre-existing includes even ear infections or mild asthma, so we are stuck. I understand what you are saying. HOWEVER, this bill will not fix that. What we are going to be forced to do is buy a “silver” level insurance policy, one that costs on average, 14,500 a year, for each family. No matter how old you are or how much you make, you will have to have a level of coverage decided by someone else. Great, no pre-existing conditions, but that doesn’t mean they can’t charge extra, to everyone, which they will. My renewal is in two months, and I am very certain that it will be sky-high.
Most importantly, this will not bring down costs at all. I would like to have a policy that covers catastrophic and major conditions, but wouldn’t mind paying the REAL cost of a checkup, (my insurance reimburses the doctor $65).
Plus, for example, why must my policy include maternity care? It does, that is all they offer anymore. I can no longer have children. In the good old days, (oh, maybe 7-10 years ago), you could purchase individual policies without it. If you thought you might need it, you paid for it. If you got “caught” without it, you negotiated with the OB to pay a reduced fee (many people I know did this). Huge “cadillac” policies have numbed us to what things should cost. Take a look at a hospital bill to see an easy example. Do you complain about $20 aspirin? No, the insurance company will pay for it. You would if you were paying for it….
I agree that we need to fix this. But, it is the middle class that will get screwed with this bill. There are so, so, so many things wrong with it. And in my mind we are really losing what is a glorious opportunity to fix the real problems. Because of this sham, we may never have this opportunity again.
Chip Bennett commented:
@Frank (quoting from linked blog post):
Nice try (again), Frank, but wrong.
Every one of those uses of the self-executing rule was either:
a) A procedural motion regarding House rules of procedure/debate (i.e. not a legislative bill), or
b) Used to expedite passage of a Conference Report for a legislative bill that the House had already voted on and passed.
Care to try again?
Oh, and be sure to use actual references to House Resolutions to support your claim. I went to the trouble of doing so; therefore, I expect the same from anyone attempting to challenge my assertion.
Name one time the Republicans in the House have used a self-executing rule to “deem” as passed a legislative bill that the House hasn’t already voted on and passed.
You can’t, because there is no such instance.
Robert commented:
None of you are self employed buying your own insurance. None of you are uninsured. You are lucky. None of you can tell me what I should do about premiums rising over 10% a year and my wife with a pre-existing condition.
Get the government to make others pay for your problems. After all, it’s your right. And the government has the money, they get it from all those rich people who own businesses.
pm commented:
Frank is monopolizing this thread like a good little troll. With his lies.
I have a sister who moved with her husband and family 10yrs. ago to New Zealand. She’s now back home after her 50yr.old husband DIED because of the WAIT for heart surgery (performed w/o incident in US years earlier) leaving 4 young children fatherless.
I have a daughter who lived in UK for about 8 yrs. She wouldn’t let them touch her. Filthy hospitals where her fiance picked up the MRSA infection that’s rampant there – and that from the “best” hospital in London. She always came home to see the doctors here. She’s moved home and has finally had the eye surgery she’s needed for years.
You’d better learn to pray and trust God for healing if we get what this group of Marxists wants.
BO has given up his trip because this is the most important legislation in his march to destroy America.
He will break any law to get there.
“Medicine is the keystone in the arch of the socialist state.” Lenin
This unconstitutional procedure will be used to do even more damage to our Republic if we don’t stop it now. BO is a fraud and a traitor to the United States of America.
Pray between now and Sunday that God has mercy on us all.
Frank Jones commented:
Hello O,
Good to talk to someone who realizes there is a problem. Health Insurance as it is is really hurting the small businessman. Plus I know a lot of guys who would go out on their own but don’t because they could not get insurance.
What we need is group plans for the self insured because with those kinds of plans the rates don’t go up as much and you have some clout with the insurance company.
THe other problem is the pre-existing condition thing because eventually we are all going to have one. If you need to change plans your condition is not going to be covered. The only option now is to hope you don’t get one until you are eligible for Medicare. Or get hired by a larger business but we all know they favor younger workers. They are cheaper and they don’t need as much insurance.
As for $20 aspirine I think they charge that much because they can get away with it and because they have to recoup the cost of all those uninsured people going to the emergency room. We pay for them one way or another anyway so I think we might as well pay for them in a cheaper way than emergency room costs. Public health clinics are cheaper than emergency rooms.
All I know is that something has to be done. A lot of the scare talk by people on Medicare about government run healthcare really boogles my mind.
I am willing to risk a government solution because private insurers just are not doing it. Insurance costs are too high for the self insured. Too many people are dying because of no health insurance.
If there was a non-government solution that would be great. My sister’s experience in Australia has been great. I’ve met people from England, Canada and Germany and they all like their government run health insurance.
Who am I supposed to believe? People that say the Democrats want to kill old people? Or my friends and family in other countries?
pm commented:
Oh, and by the way, Frank, you’re wrong again. I have no health insurance. It is a covenant I entered into with my Lord and Savior nearly 20 years ago.
But I will be fined and/or jailed for not going along with what these godless people would impose on me.
Jules commented:
@ Frank Jones
My dad is self employed. He doesn’t make very much money and neither does my mother’s part time job. When he got laid off in 1998 and looked into insurance coverage, my mother had been diagnosed with cancer and he had diabetes (and he biked several miles a day so not from getting fat). Despite all of this they were able to find an affordable insurance plan through Humana which still covers me as well at 21. They have to pay for their own medicine, but that is what generic medicine is for. My fiance doesn’t have health insurance and he doesn’t want this bill to pass either. So spare me your violin music because Humana has covered my dad’s bypass surgery when he found out he was born with a smaller than usual artery that they call a widow maker. He was supposed to be going out West to take pictures, but had been experiencing shortness of breath hiking when he was very fit and shouldn’t have been. He immediately got emergency surgery because if he had a heart attack well that artery is called the widow maker for a reason. If my father lived in Canada he would be 6 feet under right now for sure. They have covered psychiatrists, dermatologists, and now my parents have a dental plan for $25 a month as well since my mom found out she needed a partial root canal last month. Maybe you just aren’t very good at researching your options.
Frank Jones commented:
PM, I am not lying and I’m not a communist. I’m a small business owner living on the edge of of having no affordable coverage.
Besides, what they are proposing is to get everyone in PRIVATE FOR-PROFIT plans. Not the New Zealand plan. Not the England plan. More like the Swiss plan actually.
That communist talk is ridiculous. Did Medicare ruin the country? Ask all the living old people if it did.
pm commented:
You’re a deceiver, Frank. You’ve been here many times before using different names. You know what you’re telling people is lies.
But I’ll pray God has mercy on you too.
Frank Jones commented:
Jules,
How much is your Dad paying for his and your health insurance? I’m paying $1128 for me my wife and my 3 year old. That’s $13,536 a year from Aetna. If you can find me a cheaper plan that will cover my wife’s MS tell me.
That’s a LOT of Money. But, like I said, you are not paying for your own health insurance so you don’t really know what it is like.
As for your fiance, I knew a couple of young guys like that who got in serious accidents and are now saddled with $200,000 medical bills that they have no way of paying. Guess who is paying for them? We are because hospitals pass on the costs to people with insurance.
So no. I don’t take the opinions of young people with no insurance or people who are getting insurance from someone else very seriously. That includes everyone on Medicare.
just bob commented:
Frank, if you can not afford health insurance now wait until you have to pick up the tab for all of those who do not contribute a dime to the economy or you have to pay the wages of thousands of new government employees who also do not contribute a dime to the economy. This bill is redistribution and reparations in one very expensive package. Thde passage of this bill and the upcoming amnesty bill will be the shot that fueled a class war.
Frank Jones commented:
PM, I was never on this site before. Good for you to trust in God but for me and my wife and son I think I need insurance. I’m not going to pretend to know what the Almighty has in store for me nor demand from him protection so I don’t have buy insurance. That would be kind of selfish, I think.
Just Bob,
Who pays for all those emergency room visits? And we know that overhead on Medicare is a lot less than for private insurance companies. In fact I did a job in a doctors office. 2 Doctors and 5 people whose job was just to deal with insurance paperwork.
Reparations??? LOL!
pm commented:
People, we know the Republicans have proposed a number of ways to reduce the costs of health insurance.
Theirs is the SANE way to handle this issue.
But the Marxists in power don’t want you to know of it. It’s a FAR easier, more effective way to achieve what’s best for us all.
These are corrupt individuals who are deceiving you.
Be wise, be informed and prayerful that the good will lead us from this path toward certain destruction.
pm commented:
I hope one day you come to know the Lord, Frank.
You’ll find you don’t need to know what He has in store for you. Nor will you “demand” anything from Him.
Frank Jones commented:
Wait a minute. I already said I don’t need to know what He has in store for me. Nor am I demanding anything. If anything you are asking to be protected more than others and if you go to the emergency room you’ll probably need some medical attention that you’ll have no way of paying for. Your costs will be passed on to people with insurance.
I also don’t assume I know the Lord any more than anyone else does. I am humble, unlike you.
Frank Jones commented:
Tort reform and buying insurance across state lines won’t significantly affect insurance prices. That’s the republican plan that won’t work.
Calling people Marxists is just silly scaremongering.
pm commented:
Your statement presumed that those who live a life of faith demand things of God. And need to know what’s in store for them.
My statements were an attempt to disabuse you of those notions.
Joanne commented:
Frank Jones – this is socialist health care. My son in socialist health care was referred by two doctors to a back and spine specialist, and he was denied both times. What now? He is talking about going to Texas to a spine specialist – yes, paying for his own healthcare, because as a young man he has been denied care in socialist healthcare. In fact, he has healthcare coverage above the socialist healthcare, but only to the tune of $500 for rehabilitation, so he has been paying out of pocket for all rehabilitation above that amount. There is no free ride in socialist healthcare….sorry, but there is no guarantee your wife with MS will NOT be denied care.
Good luck man, but you are putting your hope in a socialist system that gives government personnel the right to deny healthcare, instead of insurance personnel……and believe me, when Obamacare numbers start coming in, people are going to be denied care.
pm commented:
Not only will Republican proposals bring costs down, they will allow people to buy insurance appropriate to their individual circumstances.
Not only will the Dem proposal increase our taxes tremendously and bring down the quality of our care, but we will have to pay for a plan that is chosen for us. One size does not fit all.
And, remember, these members of Congress have REFUSED to submit themselves and their families to this abomination.
As L. O’Donnell recently admitted on Morning Joe, the Dem plan will:
–increase taxes
–reduce quality of care
–bankrupt the nation
and this from an ultra liberal.
bg commented:
++
OT..
Andreas K.
Germans Cringe at Hitler’s Popularity in Pakistan
we ain’t seen nothin’ yet..
==
bg commented:
++
OT..
Frank Jones @ 6:50 am #33
that’s because Democrats like to give OTHER
people’s money away, while Republicans give
of their OWN..
fyi:
Bleeding Heart Tightwads
Democrats wake up to being the party of the rich
==
O commented:
Private insurers are already regulated. Lobbyists for this, that and the other are already allowed to go in and demand that policies must cover each of their interests. Some policies cover acupuncture, chiropractic, alternative health, just like maternity for all women of childbearing age, but not advanced imaging. Why can’t we buy a policy and pick what we want covered, according to what we want to pay for? When the kids were little, I needed more office visit coverage for all of the ear infections, strep throats, etc. Now, I’d love to pay my own office visits (at what the actual cost would be for no insurance, since they wouldn’t have to file anything) and let the coverage I pay for kick in to help pay for specialists and negotiate expensive testing.
You think that your costs will go down, but you are wrong. We are going to get slammed. The pre-existing clause will go into effect immediately, which sounds great, right? I have full expectation that our company’s policy premium will double on our renewal date. You are right, it would be nice to have a pool for small business and the self-employed. Why couldn’t we do just that, to start out with, and work out the kinks? If insurance were less loaded with mandatory coverages, and we could choose what we wanted, and we could buy individual policies out of a pool, can you imagine? Now that this monstrosity will go into effect, any small incremental change is lost. We will be allowed to go into a pool, supposedly, but we will have to buy a large, comprehensive policy, whether we want to or not. And, if you are not really “poor”? Well, you will be the one paying for everyone to have that policy. The insurance companies and big pharma are getting bailouts. I really don’t think people realize that most of us will be paying a lot more out of pocket. From a business standpoint, I can’t even fathom when I will hire anyone again. I will just have to make my employees do more of the work. All employers I know are scared to death. We cover some of our employees (that need coverage), but when the cost is prohibitive, we will be forced to drop that coverage, which we really don’t want to do. But we have to stay in business. They will end up in a public plan, having to pay out of pocket for their own premiums, which they have never had to do before, and probably don’t really understand how much it will cost.
Of course, I also read if we change our coverage, we are automatically disallowed from “you can keep the coverage you have”….don’t know if that is still in this bill.
Sure, we are charged over the top for things because they can get away with it. But why can they get away with it? Because our focus has been taken away from what things cost since we don’t “pay” that cost.
I am glad there has been such a robust discussion of health care and health insurance (two very different things). I had hoped that this would not pass, and that it would force us to take an authentic look at the entire health CARE system and insurance process, and how far away we have gotten from “care”. A lot of these ideas have been presented and could have been discussed, but they were completely ignored by the party that has decided they know better than we do, but they won’t take the same deal we will get. Unbelievable.
And comparing us to other countries is unrealistic, especially since we are trying to get what the other governments “give” while lying about what it is going to cost, both in taxes and out of our (middle class) pockets. And don’t even get me started about the expansion to the IRS, both in manpower and in authority over us.
I just really can’t believe that people have fallen for this bill. Just can’t get my head around the idea that your personal situation makes you think that a government intrusion into your life so that you can not have to “worry” about it is a real thought process. I hear what you are saying, but these people are buying each others votes with job promises and airplane rides, and you really trust them to make decisions about your health? Seeing the crookedness in DC should make everyone shudder at this bill, whether you are R or D. I don’t want either party in control of my health care.
Sorry this is so long. I don’t usually post, I just browse and read. But I caught a glimpse of the pre-victory rally at GMU earlier today and I am incensed. They don’t care what is in this bill, they just wanted to win, with our lives in their hands.
bg commented:
++
squeaky @ 7:34 am #47
Doctors to quit in droves if and when this health care bill is passed
==
bg commented:
++
O @ 12:25 pm #74
excellent, thank you..
and just a reminder:
student loan take-over is attached @ the hip of health care’s passage..
==
bg commented:
++
pm @ 11:36 am #70
re: [L. O’Donnell ]
I’m Too Afraid to Criticize Islam
==
Frank Jones commented:
I agree with some of that. Why can’t we pick and choose the type of coverage we get? It’s probably the same reason cable companies don’t let you pick and choose. They give you a lot of the cheap stuff and make you pay extra for the stuff you really want.
I also agree that it would have been good to experiment with giving people the option to join a large pool of insurance buyers. But the insurance companies don’t seem to want to give us that option.
I’d like to see more experiments in govt. policy so we can base policy on facts rather than assumptions. Let’s give Vermont vouchers and New Hampshire equal funding for all schools. (not an expert here but you get the drift).
My own feeling is that the Health Insurance companies have had their chance. The self insured pay too much. Too many people cant afford coverage and are dying for it. Also all those people that go to emergency rooms and don’t pay pass their costs to us.
The only way it’s going to work is if everyone is covered and we are all in the same pool. It’s not like we have private fire departments. That’s because when one house burns the others catch on fire.
cmountsr commented:
ebayer – I had my prostate removed in Jan 09. I do not take any medicine to keep the cancer at bay. I suggest you get your father a new Doctor or at least a second opinion. This doesn’t sound kosher. My Dr. said prostate cancer is a slow growing canceer and almost all men have it by the time they die. By the way I just had my annual checkup and no cancer. There is no medicine available to prevent cancer from coming back that I know of or have reseached.
bg commented:
++
Frank Jones @6:09 pm #79
no one disagrees we need health
care “reform” and all it entails..
problem is the bill on the table is not so much about
“reform” as it is about “governmental control”..
i also have a newsflash for you,
not “everyone” will be covered..
==
Just visiting commented:
Frank Jones
I don’t know if you’re a troll or someone who’s desperate. You mentioned that you are a small businessperson. If you live in CA, put your wife on your payroll and buy a group policy for your business (Min 2 required – owner plus one, etc.). If you have to write her a check, write one. It comes and goes from the same pocket.
The insurance companies will not be allowed to discriminate against your wife’s pre-existing condition. Shop around. You can buy a high-deductible policy to keep your costs down, and open an HSA to pay your expenses with pre-taxed dollars. I don’t know the rules in other states, but if I were in your situation I would certainly research them.
If you’re a troll, you’ll whine about this. If you’re desperate, you may find some hope. You kind of sound desperate to me, so I wish you the best. Good luck.
pm commented:
Frank’s definitely a troll. Look at Comment#1.
That’s where the lies began.
O commented:
The benefits of this bill will not take effect for quite some time. In the same amount of time, we could offer experiments to the states. Massachusetts has already tried what is being voted on tomorrow. Let’s try some other things. Immediately.
Frank is right about self-employed and small business insurance, at least in some states. You can get “group” insurance from some companies with two employees, but for a very small company, they treat you as an individual as far as pre-existing and ridiculous rate hikes, at least in our state. We do have an option for a really crappy policy (we are purchasing for a couple of employees, too, so we do try to provide the best we can afford, but what we can afford is not super) that only holds a pre-existing clause for one year, but they are well-known for increasing rates every six months. So he could hire his wife, but could probably not get the benefits offered to employees of larger firms, even if he was willing to pay for it.
So, there are problems. And this has brought a lot of those out into the open. Trying these ideas out on smaller scales with states that are interested in trying experiments with federal support is a wonderful idea. This is not leaving it to the insurance companies, quite the opposite, in fact. But it is also not buying off the insurance companies with mandated consumers, like this bill is going to do.
And you have to seriously understand that we will not all be in “the same pool”. There is no way that Congress and their ilk will lower themselves to our insurance. The unions have insurance we self-employed and small business owners will never be able to afford, I promise you they will never let go of that, tax free. Government employees will not be dumped into the system either. We will not all be in an equal pool. In the medicare expansion, this will be amazing unequal. Companies are announcing almost daily that they are dropping medicare patients. So, is that equal coverage?
I believe that this will put smaller insurance companies out of business, which is why larger companies have kept their mouths shut. Ultimately, I think that will come back to bite them, as the real goal here is to eliminate private insurance (IMO), but that will take time and a lot of our money before that occurs.
Again, the rule making rate increases illegal immediately is no longer in the bill. If I am incorrect about that, I’d love to hear it. I fully expect that my premiums will double or triple next month when I get our renewal.
If you are a troll, Frank, I hope you enjoyed your time here among people that truly care about this country. I realize that the talking points of this legislation sound “good”. As a person in business for yourself, I’ll bet you’ve learned that if it sounds to good to be true, it probably isn’t. You get what you pay for. We just don’t even pay attention to what we pay for anymore in healthcare.
Gus commented:
Anyone know a good lawyer that can argue the case of Economic Treason against King Barack? His systematic approach to weaken the US dollar, scare investors from Wall St, and misleading information to pass legislation that will continue to widen the deficit are acts that negatively affect the United States. Maybe we can reinstitute the noble concept of the “duel”. Pay-per-view…Barack vs Pelosi… California has no Prohibitions against Dueling.