Saudi Delegates Call For Investigation Into Climategate at Copenhagen Junk Science Summit (Video)
Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 6:21 AM
Global Warming Denialists Want More Science & Less Politics–
The Saudi delegates threw hot oil on the junk scientists yesterday at the Copenhagen Summit when they called for an independent investigation into the Climategate scandal:
Russia Today: Saudi Arabia called for an independent investigation into Climategate Monday, warning that the scandal over stolen e-mails threatened to undermine the global-warming negotiations beginning in Copenhagen. We believe this scandal — or what has been referred to as the climategate scandal — we think this is definitely going to affect the nature of what could be trusted in our deliberations, the Saudi Arabian negotiator said.
The junk science summit got off to a rocky start.
The Australian reported:
THE UN Climate Change Summit started this week in Copenhagen with far more dissent than its organisers hoped for from two extremes of the climate change debate
. We had the “grandfather of climate change”, James Hansen, describing the proceedings as counter-productive and “a farce”, while the chief Saudi Arabian negotiator to the summit, Mohammed al-Sabban, doubts the current science and suggests there is no longer any point in seeking agreement to reduce emissions.
It is therefore certain that the global political debate on managing carbon emissions and climate change will continue well beyond the Copenhagen summit. It is to be hoped that the scientific debate is also permitted to continue.
Results released this year suggest that the degree of scientific certainty falls short of that desirable before we set binding targets and dollar values on carbon emissions. Indeed, Tim Flannery, chairman of the Copenhagen Climate Council admitted that: “We can’t pretend we have perfect knowledge: we don’t.”
This is a refreshingly honest comment when contrasted with some of the statements in the hacked emails of the Climatic Research Unit, UK, made by leading British and US climate scientists, who were caught with their fingers on the “delete button” when faced with climate data that failed to agree with their computer models.
More… Developing countries react furiously to a leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations.
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Aitch748 commented:
On that leaked “Danish text” agreement that representatives of the “developing” nations are pissed about: Who’s really surprised to get even more confirmation that this whole climate thing is basically a vehicle to give some people a lot more power over other people and not a way to actually halt or hinder detrimental changes to Earth’s natural climate cycles?
nick commented:
This neither supports nor refutes the idea of whether climate change is driven by the actions of man. Of course Saudi Arabia is calling for an investigation. They have the largest incentive for the world to continue consuminge fossil fuels into eternity.
Honestly, I’m all for finding alternative fuel sources so we can tell backward nations like Saudi Arabia to “take a hike.”
GrayRider commented:
It’s all coming unraveled now. When you live by lies and deceit you die by facts and truth.
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spayandneuter commented:
This Climategate fiasco is a slap in the face for those of us who have tried to conserve, recycle and reuse and not waste or pollute for the last 30+ years.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that we only have one planet and we have to treat it and use its resources with respect.
—
Poopsicle commented:
Gee… why would one of the worlds largest oil producing countries want to discredit global warming?
What a head scratcher…
The Triguy commented:
Spayandneuter,
I agree with you. We need to conserve and not to pollute. It’s just good common sense.
But what doesn’t make sense at all is what many “false prophets” are trying to push on us. It has nothing to do with ecology or Earth Day or simply being good stewards of the resources we have.
It’s all about ego to some, controlling the polictical environment to others and jsut being part of a feel good crowd to the rest.
Arch commented:
This is a replay of the Obama administration foreign policy amateur hour.
GilbertNSullivan commented:
Yup. That’s how science works. Nothing to do with painstakingly researching the data to arrive at conclusions supported by evidence. No sirree.
How many people here can honestly say they understand what “hide the decline” specifically refers to? If you say that you do, can you then explain why a paper* about exactly this subject was published and has been under discussion in publicly-available documents (Nature, 391, 678-682) since 1998?
Nah… didn’t think so.
Moving on, are you saying that the American Association of Petroleum Geologists is part of the conspiracy?
If so, these instructions may prove useful to you:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html
* http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/09/progress-in-millennial-reconstructions/
** http://dpa.aapg.org/gac/statements/climatechange.pdf
OregonGuy commented:
Other news you prolly never heard before:
http://robkremer.blogspot.com/2009/12/another-media-cover-up.html
“In this case, the scientist fought back and won an unconditional surrender that revealed the complete corruption of Gore and at least one prominent Harvard climate researcher.”
.
The Triguy commented:
Actually Gilbert, just because the paper’s been around since 1998 doesn’t mean that it’s being discussed or even taken seriously enough to be discussed. In fact, I think that’s what some of the “leaked” documents actually say: stop those who don’t agree with AGW from having a place in the peer review process or from having their papers published in scientific journals.
To the extent that humankind (to be PC) has contributed to global warming, it’s only to the extent that can be recorded since the middle 19th century. The measurements taken are flawed at best since (by their own admission) NOAA has 70% of the recording devices do not meet their “exacting” standards of location. That meas that only 30% of these devices can be used for any scientific research. I wonder how that skews the results?
How about if we call it a draw and start the research and analysis over from sratch? Oh, I forgot, those same scientists have conveniently misplaced the original data so that can’t be done. And they expect us to believe their conclusions when they blatently manipulate the data like that?
I’d also like to know why in most of these “peer reviewed” papers very little if any reference is gievn to solar activity. Sunspots have been recorded since the mid 17th century. Compare the minimums with the MWP ans the LIA and you’ll see something striking: they match. Yet this large engine and it’s impact on our atmosphere is almost ignored by those who want to live forever (ego) through their scientific discoveries.
Just so you know, I’ve been saying for years that this whole global warming nonsense is just that. Now that it’s supposed to be man-made makes it even more jajune. I’ll say it again: people are involved in this hoax because their ego calls for it, they want to craete a new polictical society or they are simply lost souls looking for a cause.
bg commented:
++
re: Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after ‘Danish text’ leak
[A confidential analysis of the text by developing countries also seen by
the Guardian shows deep unease over details of the text. In particular, it is understood to:
• Force developing countries to agree to specific emission cuts
and measures that were not part of the original UN agreement;
• Divide poor countries further by creating a new category
of developing countries called "the most vulnerable";
• Weaken the UN's role in handling climate finance;
• Not allow poor countries to emit more than 1.44 tonnes of carbon
per person by 2050, while allowing rich countries to emit 2.67 tonnes.
Developing countries that have seen the text are understood to be furious that it is being promoted by rich countries without their knowledge and without discussion in the negotiations.
"It is being done in secret. Clearly the intention is to get [Barack] Obama and the leaders of other rich countries to muscle it through when they arrive next week. It effectively is the end of the UN process,” said one diplomat, who asked to remain nameless.]
i cry for poorer countries, especially Haiti..
there is no reason on this Earth that the Haitian people should be suffering half as much as they are; same goes for many African nations; this NWO is not only going to kill liberty, over time, it’s going to cause global genocide..
(short synopsis)
the only true way to attain a Utopian World is to abolish money; that way everyone would be equals; and humanity would turn towards humanity as
in “doing unto others as you would have them do unto you”..
iow: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, heal the
sick, educate the illiterate via all the knowledge charity exudes..
albeit seems an impossible dream.. Obama et al are taking us in the opposite direction.. making it even more-so by taking us through the looking glass to a land of Grasshoppers & ants.. aka: IslaMarxism by any other name = the collective enemy of mankind..
==
bg commented:
++
Gilbert @ 1:08 pm #9
Eco-economic Warfare and the Planned Collapse of Western Civilization
[Maurice Strong is perhaps most widely known as the co-author of the 1994 Earth Charter with the communist and former Russian president Mikhail Gorbachev, who once stated that the threat of environmental crisis will be the "international disaster key that will unlock the New World Order." Strong's rise to prominence as internationalist gofer to the Rothschilds and Rockefellers goes back to 1946, when Strong was just 17 and working as a clerk at the United Nations in New York City. It was here that Strong was befriended and recruited by David Rockefeller. Despite his minimal credentials of only a high school diploma, Strong is moved up the ladder quickly following his introduction to Rockefeller, becoming a millionaire by his mid-20s, during the Alberta oil and gas boom. At the age of 25, Strong became the President of Dome Petroleum in Calgary. By the age of 35, he is the CEO of the Power Corporation of Canada. While at the Power Corporation, Strong hires Paul Martin and James Wolfensohn, both of whom would move up the ladder quickly and go on to hold high positions of power -- Martin as Prime Minister of Canada, and Wolfensohn as President of the World Bank. (Strong would later become an advisor to Wolfensohn at the World Bank.)
At the UN, Strong would go on to become Director of the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP), Senior Advisor to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, and Chairman of the Earth Council. He would also become Chairman of the World Resources Institute, Co-Chairman of the Council of the World Economic Forum, and a member of Toyota's International Advisory Board. Strong's most influential role to date, however, has been as the Secretary-General of the 1992 UN Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED -- aka the Earth Summit) in Rio de Janeiro. It was this conference that gave birth to the Earth Charter and Agenda 21, which would lay the groundwork for a completely managed global society run and managed under the auspices of the UN, under the guise of saving the environment.
It is people such as Maurice Strong, Mikhail Gorbachev, Al
Gore, and Ted Turner that are at the forefront of the UN's environmental/depopulation agenda, at least at the visible/gofer level. The four are also members of, or have close connections to the Club of Rome. It is the Club of Rome that has been guiding the environmental movement since its creation at the Rockefellers' estate in Bellagio, Italy in 1968. It's aim is to reduce a large majority of the global population, as well as manufacture crisis through which the world can be "united" under a one world government, as was admitted in their 1991 publication, titled The First Global Revolution.]
Agenda 21
The Rio Declaration on Environment and Development
oh yeah, the Rothschilds & Rockefeller’s..
The First Global Revolution:
Blueprint for a new global order
[“In searching for the new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. In their totality and in their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which demands the solidarity of all peoples. But in designating them as the enemy, we fall into the trap about which we have already warned, namely mistaking symptoms for cause. All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changing attitudes and behaviors that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”]
yes, there much more, and most, if not all, of the dots connect, go figure..
==
bg commented:
++
re: bg @ 2:20 pm #13
“They’re Building a Religion”
The IPCC removes the Hockey stick [2007]
Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty in Copenhagen
More on Al Gore’s climate fraud promotion book “Our Choice”
[Maurice Strong, who is regularly credited as founding father of the modern environmental movement, serves on the board of directors of CCX. Strong was a leading initiate of the Earth Summit in the early 90s, where the theory of global warming caused by CO2 generated by human activity was most notably advanced.
Both Strong and Gore come from the Club of Rome clique, who in their 1991 Report, “The First Global Revolution” openly admitted how they were planning to exploit the contrived hoax of global warming in order to further their agenda.
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.,” they wrote.]
About “Our Choice”
[I’m offering you the choice of life or death.
You can choose either blessings or curses.
–Deuteronomy Chapter 30, Verse 19]
With Hurricanes At Thirty Year Low, Gore Turns To Photoshop
[With the increasingly discredited notion of man-made global warming crashing and burning on a daily basis, climate alarmists are being forced to accelerate their fearmongering to unprecedented levels. With the evidence failing to match up to the doomsday proclamations, Al Gore has turned to photoshop in order to make a CO2-choked earth look scary enough to sell his cap and trade scam.
The latest example of climate cult fakery comes in the form of the front cover of Al Gore’s new book, Our Choice; A Plan To Solve The Climate Crisis.]
The Great Global Warming Swindle
==
chris commented:
Jim Hoft is now in league with the Islamist theocrats running Saudi Arabia. I can’t imagine why they would want the world to keep consuming oil? Weird!
bg commented:
++
OregonGuy @ 1:22 pm #10
thanks..
more on Gore suppressing evidence..
==
bg commented:
++
chris @ 2:55 pm #15
you haven’t a clue as to who the Islamists are, nor who’s on their side..
==
Chisum commented:
Professor Jacobson likens this to “Show me the money!” from Jerry Maguire.
It reminds me more of Joe Pesci in The Super, “F You, PAY ME!”
UN Climate Chief to US: “Show Me The Money”
Why am I not surprised. The head of the UN’s climate organization has demanded that American taxpayers “show me the money” by funding billions of dollars of climate change programs in poorer countries.
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/12/un-climate-chief-to-us-show-me-money.html
bg commented:
++
re: bg @ 3:11 pm #17
ps: chris @ 2:55 pm #15
re: [I can’t imagine why they would
want the world to keep consuming oil?]
ask the Rockefellers, Clintons & Dems
you know, the ones who won’t let US drill for our own..
oh btw, when all these experimental alternatives go bust..
you know, the ones Gore & his elite cronies (who shall remain nameless, Columbia/ Tides Foundation & Apollo Alliance to give you a hint, oops)
who are making millions now & are set to rake in billions in the future..
who do you think will be the victor raking in the spoils??
==
GilbertNSullivan commented:
Whether it’s being is discussed is irrelevant: publishing the findings kinda proves that there’s no conspiracy to keep it secret, doesn’t it.
In actuality, major papers were subsequently published in every single year following: check this paper from 2008 (or its references if you want an overview).
Yup. Coincides with…? The industrial revolution!
Even discounting them entirely, the data is correlated by measurements from weather balloons and satellites. Additionally, sea surface temperatures, bore hole reconstructions and ocean temperatures all show long term warming trends and, further, confirm earlier proxy reconstructions from ice cores, etc. showing the 20th century to be the warmest of the past five centuries.
Riiiiiiiiiiight… so there’s this massive thermonuclear furnace in the sky that scientists just ignore as an inconvenience to their plans for immortality. Your sources are mistaken (to put it kindly). This paper from the American Institute of Physics has 59 references to the effect of solar activity on climate change from recently published papers:
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/solar.htm
And ends with this:
A U.S. National Academy of Sciences panel estimated in 1994 that if solar radiation were to weaken as much as it had during the 17th-century Maunder Minimum, the effect would be offset by only two decades of accumulation of greenhouse gases. As one expert explained, the Little Ice Age “was a mere ‘blip’ compared with expected future climatic change.
Say whatever you like. Your evidence is bunk, your opinions ignorant and self-aggrandising. The reason scientists are trying to warn governments and populations is because the evidence they have gathered for decades from multiple sources all points to dumping gigatonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year having catastrophic consequences. If you want to believe that they’re as shallow as you go right ahead: it doesn’t change the facts.
Chisum commented:
Understanding Climategate’s Hidden Decline
By Marc Sheppard
Close followers of the Climategate controversy know that much of the mêlée surrounds an e-mail in which Climate Research Unit (CRU) chief Phil Jones wrote about using “Mike’s Nature Trick” (MNT) to “hide the decline.” And yet, seventeen days and thousands of almost exclusively on-line op-eds into this scandal, it still seems that very few understand exactly which “decline” was being hidden, what “trick” was used to do so, and why Jones’s words have become the slogan for the greatest scientific fraud in history.
As the mainstream media move from abject denial to dismissive whitewashing, CRU co-conspirators move to Copenhagen for tomorrow’s U.N. climate meeting, intent on changing the world as we know it based primarily on their now-exposed trickery. Add yesterday’s announcement of a U.N. investigation into the matter, which will doubtless be no less corrupt than those being investigated, and public awareness of how and why that trick was performed is now more vital than ever.
So please allow me to explain in what I hope are easily digestible terms.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/understanding_climategates_hid.html
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Chisum
So what do *you* think of that post you linked to? I mean, obviously you’re not just going to post a link to some crank lying about stuff on a blog and pretend that that’s a rebuttal are you… that would be stupid.
Chisum commented:
Yeppers, “cranks on a blog”.
Climate claims fail science test
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/climate-claims-fail-science-test/story-e6frg6zo-1225808398627
Solaratov commented:
GilbertNSullivan
December 8th, 2009 | 7:34 pm | #21
Gilly, you’re a pretentious little snot who has, obviously, fallen for a scam.
And even in the face of proof of a fraud of colossal magnitude, you cling to the lies that you’ve been fed.
You’re pathetic.
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Chisum
Ever ask yourself why the eminent names they wheel out to deliver these damning opinions are never actually climate scientists?
Ball’s in your court son.
Chisum commented:
Copenhagen climate summit: Blindfolds are hiding the crucial issues at Copenhagen
It is now obvious that the science behind rising CO2 levels is far from settled, writes Christopher Booker.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6763409/Copenhagen-climate-summit-Blindfolds-at-Copenhagen-are-hiding-the-crucial-issues.html
Christopher Booker’s The Real Global Warming Disaster: Is The Obsession With ‘Climate Change’ Turning Out To Be The Most Costly Scientific Blunder In History’
Chisum commented:
Gilbert, sneering condescension will only get you so far. Facts have a way of intruding. Very inconvenient.
What’s the name of your book about climate change?
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Solaratov
Oh, so you’ve finally torn yourself away from getting hot and flustered over at the fisting threads have you? Feeling a little “tense” at the way it made you feel, no doubt
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Chisum
Tell that to TheTriguy with his “scientists are only in it for the fame” line of reasoning.
Indeed.
I’m not writing one, but I can point you in the direction of a couple of good ones:
http://www.cambridge.org/features/cop15/science_of_climate_change.htm
Chisum commented:
Sorry, Gilbert, it’s difficult to get past your pretension. Have you ever had a civil conversation with someone who disagrees with you?
It’s obvious that you have a closed, highly opinionated mind. I realize that afflicted as you are it is very difficult for new ideas to get in.
Perhaps meditation and/or yoga will help.
bg commented:
++
GilbertNSullivan @ 8:17 pm #26
re: [Ever ask yourself why the eminent names they wheel out to deliver these damning opinions are never actually climate scientists?}
you’re a tad confused, there’s barely a “climate scientists
name” on the false UN’s list of uh, “scientists”, go figure..
oh btw, here’s a “few”, and here’s a “few” more..
you were saying??
==
Chisum commented:
BG,
But but but, the science is settled, donchaknow?
It’s time for us unbelievers to just shut up!
Just ask Gilbert.
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Chisum
I’ll play nice if you do. Don’t mistake exasperation for snobbery: the amount of lying being done is kind of enraging.
Like bg’s example, to take a case in point:
@bg
30,000 is a pretty impressive number I’ll grant you… but wait… what’s this? Did you even read the source quoted by the site you linked to? Let’s have a quick look shall we:
http://www.petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php
Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,804 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.
Uh oh… somehow we managed to lose 90% of the sample! But wait… there’s more! Of the 7 disciplines they include
1. Atmosphere (579)
WTF? 579? In total? And that’s counting Astronomy and Astrophysics!
That’s pretty bad no? I mean saying that 30,000 scientists are against and it turns out that it’s really only about 400 who are properly qualified? But then it gets even better (hard to believe but there you go) over 30% of the original sample only have a basic undergraduate degree!
Seriously, you are being lied to.
The good news is that amongst most atmospheric scientists the predominant feeling is that a) predictions err on the conservative side (i.e. it’s going to be much worse than the IPCC is saying) and b) it’s too late to do anything anyway, so we may as well go about our business.
Chisum commented:
I’ll play nice if you do. Don’t mistake exasperation for snobbery: the amount of lying being done is kind of enraging.
Of course, sneeringly referring to someone as “son” is a sign of exasperation. Of course.
Very “honest” of you.
Chisum commented:
Hey BG, did you see this?
Hurricane Expert Rips Climate Fears: ‘There has been an unrelenting quarter century of one-sided indoctrination’
Climategate revelations ‘are but the tip of a giant iceberg’
The following commentary is by Atmospheric Scientist and Hurricane forecasting specialist Dr. William Gray. Gray is the renowned hurricane forecaster and Emeritus Professor of Atmospheric Science at Colorado State University (CSU).
Puncturing the Climate Balloon
By Dr. Bill Gray
December 8, 2009
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/4369/Hurricane-Expert-Rips-Climate-Fears-There-has-been-an-unrelenting-quarter-century-of-onesided-indoctrination
bg commented:
++
GilbertNSullivan @ 9:23 pm #35
[Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.
The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,714 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.
All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.
The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become interested.
Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven categories.
1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,804 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.
2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 935 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.
3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,812 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.
4. Chemistry includes 4,821 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.
5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,965 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.
6. Medicine includes 3,046 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.
7. Engineering and general science includes 10,103 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.]
WHERE’S AG’S LIST??
i’ll put their list up against AG’s any time.. and if he’s so confident
his data is irreproachable, why is there no debate allowed, better
yet..
WHY DID AG BACK OUT OF HIS COPENHAGEN LECTURE??
think perhaps he’s afraid he’d inconveniently poop his pants should
someone dare ask him a (gasp) question about climate change??
==
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@Chisum
Well that showed me! A blistering takedown of the points I raised, a masterclass in how to skewer your opponent on the glittering rapier of wit and erudition!
Just kidding. You’re just a whiny hypocrite who can dish it out but can’t take it. No substance in anything you say and your only recourse is to moan about the manner in which I present a different point of view to yours. What a delicate flower you are.
GilbertNSullivan commented:
@bg
Yup that’s the same page I linked to. Well done. Reading comprehension fail though.
Chisum commented:
Ah, yes, and now the name calling begins.
You’ve convinced me, Gilbert.
I will attempt to follow your example and worship mindlessly at the altar of Climate Change. And I promise not to listen, or even hear, dissenting opinions.
Happy now?
bg commented:
++
Chisum @ 9:45 pm #37
[The Cap-and-Trade bill presently before Congress, the likely climate agreements coming out of the Copenhagen Conference, and the EPA's just announced decision to treat CO_2 as a pollutant represents a grave threat
to the industrial world's continued economic development. We should not allow these proposals to restrict our economic growth. Any United Nations climate bill our country might sign would act as an infringement on our country's sovereignty.]
not that specific one, but many many others, thanks..
bottom line:
climate change is as old as breathing..
ergo: climate changes, get used to it..
ps: SIGNING AWAY US SOVEREIGNTY IS
NOT GOING TO TAME MOTHER NATURE..
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people
some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
~ Abraham Lincoln
very true, however..
YOU CAN’T FOOL MOTHER NATURE [AND] NOT ONLY
THAT [BUT] YOU’RE A FOOL IF YOU THINK YOU CAN..
==
bg commented:
++
re: GilbertNSullivan @ 9:54 pm #40
just more proof some have gone through the
looking glass, iow: the bass ackwards realm..
==
The Triguy commented:
Sorry Gilbert, I had work to get done.
With all the back and forth (and citing other sources of data) you still haven’t answered a number of basic questions about this hoax. I’ll repeat them again. As mentioned, you cited a number of journal articles. Your point being that peer review was taking place. If so, then why were those at CRU so dogged in their belief that anyone who disagreed with them should not be allowed to either review data or publish papers? It would seem if they were honest about their findings and had nothing to hide (and no hidden agenda such as fame and fortune?) they would have welcomed peer review from skeptics to help prove their case. They would also have offered–no, too weak a word, they would have required–those doing the peer review to use all of the raw data they used in coming to their conclusion. Again, what stronger way could they have proven their point? Only problem is that they threw away the raw data. They were moving to a new facility and had no room for the data. That’s simply unbelievable. How about they lost it. Or, it’s packed in a box and we just haven’t opened it yet. I’ve done that so that’s something I could believe. But throw away the basis of your monumental and societal changing discovery? Duh!
You also haven’t answered how Mann et al have completely ignored history. Mann’s chart forgets to include the LIA or the MWP. Why is that? There are quite a few historical sources written at the time (as well as emperical evidence) to show that the climate was much warmer and also much colder than it is today. Could it be that it was left out because it was an inconvenient truth? And why did he also not share data with others so that they could verify his findings? Only two reasons I could think of: he didn’t want his falsification to be discovered or he wanted the fame all to himself.
Lastly, a question for you since you believe those who say we are warming and man with the carbon dioxide he produces is causing this dramatic change. Earlier this century a Norse village was discovered on Greenland. It had been covered for centuries under a glacier. How did those settlers build that village under the ice? Inquiring minds want to know.
Chisum commented:
Scientific Shortcomings in the EPA’s
Endangerment Finding from
Greenhouse Gases
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj29n3/cj29n3-8.pdf
bg commented:
++
The Triguy @ 6:08 am #44
logic..
facts..
common sense..
GilbertNSullivan..
one of those things just doesn’t belong..
==
Chisum commented:
Revenge of the Computer Nerds
It is fascinating to watch the mainstream media in America duck (and/or make excuses for) the greatest scam in modern history: the “science” behind man made global warming. Even more entertaining, and far more enlightening, is to follow the analyses by the experts in computer programming of the recently disclosed methods used by the Climate Research Unit (CRU) from the University of East Anglia.
Most commentators in the media have been talking about the “REM” statements in the purloined emails and computer codes from the CRU.[i] True believers in Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW), especially those in the mainstream and “scientific” media, are pooh poohing such words as “tricks” or “hide the decline” as interoffice slang that had no real impact on how the science was conducted.
But the real action (and the evidence for chicanery) is in the computer code that was obtained from the CRU.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/revenge_of_the_computer_nerds_1.html
Chisum commented:
230 physicists, including a Nobel Laureate, sign petition on Climategate
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This has become a common refrain: Hans von Storch, director of the Institute for Coastal Research, calls the climate change axis a “cartel.” A colleague, Eduardo Zorita, went further and said the scientists implicated in the e-mails “should be barred” from future United Nations proceedings and warned that “the scientific debate has been in many instances hijacked to advance other agendas.” One estimate from a free-market group says that 12 of the 26 scientists who wrote the relevant section of a U.N. global warming report are “up to their necks in ClimateGate.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/12/230_physicists_including_a_nob.html